BOTM 51 First Spoiler - 1AD

The start… Not a big fan of seafood starts, so I cant say I loved it.
Wonders… GLighthouse, Maori, Pyramids
Victory… No plan yet… Will see what comes.


Using the test save, I tried both worker and workboat first, and found that the extra population point working coast was enough to compensate the earlier goldmine. Workboat first actually could keep up in research, and clearly is slightly faster for growth, so I took that path.

The other thing the test save had suggested is that city two should go somewhere in the south, to speed up hooking up the gold. Indeed, the capital was so food rich that my testing showed that the second city steeling the capital southernmost clam for a quick start was useful. This was the plan going in.

So, the real game started, and things went exactly according to plan.
I started with: WB,WB, Lighthouse (while growing to size 3), Worker, complete lighthouse (by whipping), Warrior, WB, Granary(start), Settler (whipped @ size 5), finish Granary, Galley, Great Lighthouse.
Tech path was: Sailing, BW, Wheel, Pottery, Masonry, Hunting, AH, writing.

As I had planed, I first explored northwards about 8 turns with my warrior, and then turned back to go south and guard the worker path to the gold mine. During this time, I found the marble site, and at least one other city in the north. I never the less decided to keep these for later cities and continue with my plan for city two. I did run into a barb in the south, but my warrior barely managed to survive defending on the forested hill. So my second city went 1W of the cow. City 3 and 4 came out from whips into the Glighthouse. They went near the marble, and on the clam island to the west (to get oversees trade routes). From then, a full rex continued.

At 1AD, I have met two AI, one to the west and one to the east. I have spread to 11 cities (12th will be settled next turn), 7 on our starting island, and 4 on the various small islands surrounding it.

Barb activity was mildly annoying, but no real concern. I had to take care of an archer, and lost one galley to a bard galley, but so far no other losses. Spawn busting played a significant role there. No one has Alphabet yet, so no trading. I am still without religion, and both AIs are neutral towards me. I am trying to get the infrastructure up (courthouses, harbors, lighthouse, granary, library, etc) in the next phase, and will see how the empire looks some 30 turns from now and start making a plan for victory.
 
Situation in 1AD:

12 cities
256 beakers loosing 128 gold (lol - sound like the reading in a computer magazine)
Contact to all 4 AIs

Wonders:
Great Lighthouse
Temple of Artemis
(and Moai in Capital)

Wonders that I wanted ... but someone was faster:
Oracle 1520 Maya
The Colossus 600 Maya
The Great Lib 75 Maya (aargs, missed by ~3 turns)

Lost Music also by 3 turns to Alex.
No Academy but I got a GM which sped up the pre AD search.

The start Micro:

I did a lot of testing for the first 60 turns and I played it almost exactly as tested:

Research: Hunting -> AH -> TW -> Sailing -> BW -> Masonry
Build: WB, Worker, WB part., Settler at size 3, finish WB, Warrior?, WB?, LH, GLH

Second city went 2 tiles south of the gold; this was really a perfect spot -> I had AH for cows and only a two tile road necessary for the +1 happiness from gold.


Plan: Score milking with Sushi (oh yes... I will learn some things....)
 
^I am curious: How far did you plunge into tech tree?

Sushi...eh eh. I guess everyone's going space.

No mids? Hmmm. Mids vs ToA. Which one is teh best?
 
Well, more detailed version:
BW->TW->Sailing
Then I discovered, that my land is not so small and I'll need some defense against barbs, so I decided to resign Oracle way and put AH online. Agri then. Oh, I'll need Masonary for TGL, Masonary then. Finally 1960 BC AH.
But I had great luck with barbs. One Archer appeared north and died on my Warrior on jungle hill. Second Archer appeared south, far south, south of mountain :D
So I didn't need it anyway. And I started wandering trough tech tree which persisted to the end of game. No focus here :(
Mysticism. Oh, AIs have religions, so Writing for Open Borders, I'll not built Oracle anyway. Really? Hmm, Meditation, Priesthood 1200 BC. TGL built 1280 BC, so I started Oracle. And Pacal built it 925 BC :/
Pottery 1050 BC. My research started suffering from REXing. 2nd city near Horses north. 3rd late, 900BC and in awful spot, in the middle of big island on E, to stop Boudica eventual expansion.
4th on small island near Marble, I decided to build Moai there, but till 1AD it was about 20% done, in the meantime I whipped Chariot and Monument there. 5th city S, to grab Cows and Bronze. Another stupid move as it took forever to pop borders there, and then I haven't handy Workers to work on them.
I've met all AIs then, all of them had different religion. So befriending them was out of option.
So 525BC MC. I built a fleet of Triremes to stop barbs. I decided to invest in fleet not in army. I will defend my land on sea if necessary.
And It was single, most brilliant idea in this game. Maybe even the only brilliant idea I had...
At 1 AD all of AIs were in war mood, and only Alexander had MC. My fleet consisted of 3 Galleys and 5 Triremes, more were in shipyards.
After MC I discovered Alpha and I was first. Through trade I got Hunting, Math and IW. Suprise, suprise, no Iron nearby :<
275 BS CoL, but Boudica had Cofu already. Well, I needed it to get Currency from GM.
100 BC Calendar for happiness and I started Compass.
1 AD my first GM bulbed Currency, I traded then for Monarchy, Poly and Archery.

Next cities were 2 on Stone island, and 2 on my mini-continent: one N to claim Silk, and one E to get Banana and Dye.
So overall 9 cities, 22 pops, 83 beakers at 50% slider (-2gpt).
Archer south of mountain is still alive and I still didn't improve one Clam in capitol - no time for it.
Galley with Settler just started 13 turns long journey to Iron island NE.
 
srad's test game was extremely helpful (thank you! :)), since my starts are usually weak. It seemed to me that growth trumped all, and I also confirmed that a city 2S of the gold would be connected to the capital without Sailing (as srad pointed out), because we had a coastal connection entirely within cultural borders. So...

Builds: WB, WB, WB (1-whip), settler (2-whip with a little queue switching), warrior, warrior, worker (1-whip), granary...

Techs: BW, Wheel, Pottery, Hunting, AH, Sailing, Writing, Masonry, Myst, Med, PH, MC (from Oracle). I now have all the techs thru the 6th column except for HBR, Compass, and Machinery, plus Drama, Music, and CoL next turn.
242 bpt and -114 gpt @100%. Around 110bpt @47% breakeven.

GPs: Sci from Guim (for Lisbon academy), Merchant from Lisbon (on his way to Mutal/ToA), and Artist from Music (holding for Golden Age).

Wonders: Oracle 1080BC in Oporto (took Metal Casting), GLH 1040 Lisbon, Colossus 500 Lisbon, Great Lib in 3 turns in Lisbon. I settled south of the copper on the southern ice island to get the copper in time for Colossus. Guim is working on the Moai and Coimbra will be my Nat'l Epic + Globe city (I think).

Cities: 11 with 40 pop. Lisbon in place, Oporto 2S of gold, Guim on marble, Coimbra on hill with 2 clams, corn, dye, horses, Evora on the ice for the copper.

I consider being anywhere near srad's status a huge personal victory! Uh, now what do I do? Khan is fighting Alex and the Mayan, while the Celts have only 2 cities to the west. I'm tempted to go after Boudica and take her nice land, which is pretty inaccessible to anyone else. Don't know what to do about the Pyramids--very nice to have when running lots of specs, as this food-rich world is whispering, but it's a lot of hammers. Maybe take 'em from somebody else as the spoils of war? Or should I take advantage of the Colossus/GLH-fueled teching and go for Space? It would also be fun to build those Portuguese customs houses just to get some insane water tiles.
 
Fast question: Can I open any save files prior to the last one? I mean in SGOTM, we can open files as many times as we wish as long we don't make irreversible moves; does it make sense for HoF games and XOTM's. I wished to be more in detail in my game description, but I stopped around 200 AD and I forgot to retain vital info.

Ok, I was patient to wait a couple of days, but I wish to know if I can open an earlier save to see my stats.
I want to compare, but I need green light to avoid disqualification of my game.

@Xcalibrator

Oh my! You got the Oracle that late, you lucky bastard! ;)

@all

Why everyone is so eager to get that gold linked? The city on marble was next to the fish looked way more powerful to me. Given we can get a WB in six turns.

As far i remember, I reached similar result in tech, so gold wasn't necessary.
I guess early higher happy cap was the main reason.
 
Ok, I was patient to wait a couple of days, but I wish to know if I can open an earlier save to see my stats.
I want to compare, but I need green light to avoid disqualification of my game.
Yes, it's OK. As you said, just don't move anything or make irreversible changes.

@Xcalibrator--Oh my! You got the Oracle that late, you lucky bastard! ;)
Yes, it does appear I was fortunate with more than one Wonder or tech race. I'll take it. ;)

Why everyone is so eager to get that gold linked? The city on marble was next to the fish looked way more powerful to me. Given we can get a WB in six turns.
Because all our test games fixated on how to make the most of the visible-at-start resources, so settling to the south was burned into our brains? It's also a pretty good move. It would be interesting to compare what I did versus going for the marble site first--but I'm too lazy to do it.
 
Because all our test games fixated on how to make the most of the visible-at-start resources, so settling to the south was burned into our brains? It's also a pretty good move. It would be interesting to compare what I did versus going for the marble site first--but I'm too lazy to do it.

Okay I have my results to compare. I can conclude settler first was indeed a good move after all. But going for machinery that early...ah...what occured in my mind...ah I recall dom/conquest I dropped.

I imagine the power of Oracle in my game...

292 BPT, -118 maintenance
49 pop (Hanging Garden helps a lot here, I tend to love that wonder!)
11 cities
4 workers for all game.
Got MC, Machinery, Literature, Aesthetics, Currency and Math all self-tech...

My goal was to get Boudica my friend to milk some techs.
Primary strategic move early game: settler first 15 turns. Vicawoo disapproved such choice in his study, but the sea food (fish!) made my choice good.
 

Attachments

  • #1.jpg
    #1.jpg
    142.9 KB · Views: 83
  • #2.jpg
    #2.jpg
    114.5 KB · Views: 99
  • #3.jpg
    #3.jpg
    178.6 KB · Views: 105
(and Moai in Capital)

Ummm...that is the only doubtful move I made. I didn't put my Moai in my capital because of all the food. I know a super bureaucratic capital with hammers in water tile was attractive, but my mind was focused with OU and NE in my capital. Or that city was perfect for a super whipping city with Shakespear's Theater.

My moai was built later in my that city with cow because of already good production capacity along more or less enough food.
 
Because all our test games fixated on how to make the most of the visible-at-start resources, so settling to the south was burned into our brains? It's also a pretty good move. It would be interesting to compare what I did versus going for the marble site first--but I'm too lazy to do it.

That was only half the answer for me... Indeed, once I saw the marble, I actually asked myself: "Am I only settling south because that is what I tested, or is it actually a good move?" I decided (rightly or wrongly is still an open question) it was actually a good move. The pluses of settling south included:

+1 Happy in the capital.
A decent second city with a really fast start from sharing the southmost clam.
Only a small delay in settling the very nice Marble city, which can be placed north of marble for better long term potential.

The downside is slowing the rex a bit, but since it actually sped up the great lighthouse, which I wanted before I over expanded, I thought that slowing was minor.

Having said that, tech turned out NOT to be the bottleneck in the rexing, so maybe an even more aggresive rex woudl have been better.
 
Hey srad, thanks for the screenies. I especially like your capital - I had major problems with the happy cap. How did you get round this? I'm guessing via Monarchy - when did you research this?

I seem to be in the minority here in not settling the marble - not doing that made that 1-tile island a strong settlement, my 2nd city was next to the horses instead.
 
I got Monarchy via a trade 500BC and started to build a stack of warriors:

Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0000-4.jpg



I shared the fish and the corn between the three cities. Looking back all three cities are pretty good.
 
I did not intend to run specialist so I didn't invest the hammers into Mids (not sure if ToA was worth it...)

Well, three arguments convinced me to avoid that wonder:
-If I get a GMerchant, then I shouldn't get the wonder to maximize the gold trade mission.
-ToA was nerfed a bit since Warlords IIRC, thus less powerful than before.
-Mids instead means a total control of which victory I want to choose,
Police state if warmongering, Rep if teching far into tech tree and GEngineer points for an early GEngineer if I go for diplo. With ToA, the choices were thinner.

Of course, nothing stops both of them, but i rarely build ToA in any case.
In regards to obsolescence if plowing deep into the tech tree, then they equates mosty.

BTW, very nice tech advances. :goodjob:
With all this exploration, you are in good position to go to war.
 
A picture (or two) tells a thousand words...

Spoiler :
As you can see I really botched my city placement to the south of Lisbon. Guimaraes and Evora should have been one city, not two.

civ4screenshot0011gy.jpg


Spoiler :

I oracled Metal Casting and whipped a forge in Lisbon increasing :) and speeding up production of the GLH (well perhaps putting the forge in first was a risk really as it may have pushed back the date of the GLH slightly). The GLH was so so key on this map! You could just expand non-stop and the cities just kept on paying for themselves. Lisbon got to be such a monster late on in the game that it provided a +4 trade route to every city not on the same landmass. I'll stop saying GLH now.

But I digress...

I got really lucky for the Mids. I hadn't intended to get them at all but I popped an engineer. Well actually may be it wasn't that lucky because I had been running an engineer a lot of the time. (Just checked and I only had an 18% chance for an engineer).

If you have marble, beelining Literature is always attractive because the AI tends to avoid it.

civ4screenshot0009y.jpg


Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0006o.jpg


Spoiler :

civ4screenshot0010v.jpg


Man, its intense and stressful managing an archipelago empire!!
 
Hey srad, thanks for the screenies. I especially like your capital - I had major problems with the happy cap. How did you get round this? I'm guessing via Monarchy - when did you research this?

I seem to be in the minority here in not settling the marble - not doing that made that 1-tile island a strong settlement, my 2nd city was next to the horses instead.

I settled the 1-tile island instead of the Marble too. Putting Moai in that city made it one of my strongest cities overall.
 
Did you like the start?
Yes, I liked the start.
Given the Clams, the Pigs and the Gold, and the different possible openings, this is one of the few games for which I actually tested different starts (btw, thanks for the Test Game, srad :) )

What wonders have you built?
I have built both the Great Lighthouse (1520BC) and the Colossus (675BC) in Lisbon, and it's building the Great Library as well at the moment; still 11 turns to go &#8230;

Do you have a plan for victory?
A plan? No, not really &#8230;
I knew it wouldn't be a quick game, thus I planned to go deep into the Tech Tree &#8230; but whether it will be Space, a Diplomatic Victory or a Military Victory in the end (if I win this game at all :rolleyes: ), I don't know yet. 1 thing is sure though: it won't be a peaceful game!

Techs
BW > Sailing > The Wheel > Masonry > Agriculture > AH > Pottery > Mysticism > MC &#8230; working on Calendar right now, with 75:science:/turn at ~65%

Cities
Only 5 cities so far &#8230;
I settled Lisbon in place, of course; builds went: 3x Work Boat, 2x Warrior, Worker (whipped), Settler
Oporto went North, between the Fish and the Corn, and with 2x Clams and Marble
Guimarães went South, with Cows and Copper
Coimbra went up North again, with Clams, Horses, 2x Dye and 1x Silk
Evora was settled on that eastern strip of land, with Clams, Silk and Stone

The next 2 cities: one will go on the Western Island, picking Lisbon&#8217;s (unused so far) Pigs, and the other on the Eastern End of our island, near the Banana
Then, another city will follow on that Northern Island, using Fish and Wine, and 2 more cities on the 1-tile-island near the Marble and south of Evora, taking that Stone and the Clams


But somewhere in there, I'll try to add Boudica's cities to my Empire as well.


Speaking of Boudica: she's the reason I only have 5 cities so far. :mad:
Somewhere around 2500-2000BC, she went WHEOOHRN, and I knew I was her target. That was a huge problem, as we don't have Copper that's easy to hook.
I ended up building 4 Triremes, trying to destroy her at sea, should a few Galleys show up (she still doesn't know MC), and I made a detour to HBR, to be independant of the Copper, as there's a Barb City on that island and they could always manage to pillage it, and IW didn't reveal anything either ...
Due to these additional techs and units, I still don't know Calendar, Currency or CoL, and I'm lacking some 2 Workers and 2 Settlers, and a Galley or 2 ... :(

Pacal went busy as well, some turns ago, but as he&#8217;s pleased, I hope I&#8217;m not his target; Alex would be a better target for him, me thinks :mischief:
Religions are interesting as well: Boudica is Buddhist, Pacal and GK are Hindu and Alex is Jewish ... I don't plan on adapting a religion anytime soon. :D

The plan now is to build these few nice cities, and once I can build Macemen and Cats, I'll attack Boudica, if no one DOWs me first &#8230;
 
Chris, just some advice, especially with the great lighthouse you should prioritise building some cities on islands... my 4th, 5th & 6th cities were on islands and after each one, I had more gpt than before even after taking maintenance into account - I doubt this was the case with islands built on land.

Assuming you have the great lighthouse, no currency, all cities coastal, this is the amount of extra commerece you will get in trade routes for your 4th, 5th & 6th cities on the same land or different land.

Same landmass... 4th = 6, 5th = 3, 6th = 3
Different landmass... 4th = 12, 5th = 9, 6th = 9
So a total of 18 commerce a turn for all 3 cities! :banana:
 
Back
Top Bottom