BOTM 74 First Spoiler - 1AD

Deckhand · Jan 18, 2014

BOTM 74 First Spoiler - 1AD

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 74 (Mansa van Oranje of Netherlands), then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

You have reached at least 1AD in your game, OR
You have submitted your entry, OR
You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

Posting Restrictions
Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1AD.
Please do not discuss modern era resource locations (Copper and Iron are OK).
Please do not reveal names or locations of any civilization not accessible by galleys.
Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1AD.
Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

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Which save did you take?
Where did you settle?
Did you find enough AIs to be able to trade techs?
Are you doing the Space Gauntlet or the Culture Gauntlet or trying to sneak fastest & lowest from a VC that no one else is attempting?
And how did your game go up to 1AD?

TalladegaKnight · Jan 18, 2014

Deckhand said:
Which save did you take?

I took the contender save. Not sure enough to take the challenger save on emperor.

Where did you settle?

Sent warrior south and decided on 2S1E. Stone and Gem city was 2nd city.

Did you find enough AIs to be able to trade techs?

Semi iso fun with Mansa the 8th and his many wives.

Are you doing the Space Gauntlet or the Culture Gauntlet or trying to sneak fastest & lowest from a VC that no one else is attempting?

Did space the last game and that was a long game. Not sure I want to do that. Semi iso culture game with no religions (just Taoism and Islam left at 1 AD and none on our continent yet) does not sound like a lot of fun either.

And how did your game go up to 1AD?

Early game was not very focused. I stole a worker from Mansa the 8th and instead of moving the warrior/worker away from his cap, I moved adjacent and was clubbed over the head by one of his archers. So much for that. Next was going to Oracle Metal Casting and the turn I got to priesthood, the oracle was built in a distant land at 1760 BC. So much for that too.

At 1 AD, I have 5 cities. I built the Mids in stone city. Capital has the great library and national epic. Currently have 2 great scientists with a 3rd 7 turns away ready for an Astronomy bulb (hopefully around 400 AD)

Game could have gone better but it's not terrible so far.

WelshGandalf · Jan 19, 2014

SIP with the idea of sharing my resources among the starting cities. Teched hunting->ah, bw.

2nd city grabbed gold/fp and, in the future, iron, as well as sharing pigs & marble with the capital. 3rd went north for deer/gems. Not a great site but will benefit hugely from the Dike, if I get that far.

Built Oracle (1520BC), took CoL, spread confu - the only religion on our continent.
Built Pyramids (850BC). Swapped back & forth between slavery & caste depending on needs at the time, lovely.
Great Library built (150BC).
Had 1 GE (settled) and 1 GS (academy) so far, and have the Music Great Artist waiting for the right time for a golden age.

Managed to lose my third city to a lucky barb archer, which set me back somewhat. At 1AD I had retaken it, was up to 6 cities with 2 more coming soon. Parthenon 2 turns from completion in my wonder-full capital. Something like 175 beakers with slider at 100%.

Plan is bulb to cuirs, take this continent then Astro for the world.

enKage · Jan 20, 2014

I SIP and dont know what VC to aim ;/

2nd city sharing pigs and for copper (outside first ring), but it was prettey late I got it as I forgot we are not creative

So 4th city defended by warriors only was taken by barb archer and I lost working gems for sooo many turns. I also forgot to change civics to representation asap.

Capital: Academy (I rushed a liittle, saving it would be better), lib, granary, oracle (metal casting as there is no beaurocap and CoL religion happiness with forges is not needed), mids, 2 turns to collosus for failgold, GLib, 1 scientists waits for Optic bulb soon.

Mansa settled floodplains/fish spot so was punished, 1 city razed, 1 taken.

Now: 7 cities, english also 7 cities.

Probably I will go for conquest/domination, as with no brokering techs AI are soooo weaker than usual. I will build NE soon in cap to get 1 or 2 GS left faster for Astro bulb.

Techpath soon: IW, Compass, Calendar, Astro bulbs and straight to guilds (bulbed if I get engeineer)

ZeekLTK · Jan 20, 2014

I finally got BTS this past Xmas so I decided to give the GOTM a try now that I finally have the most recent version like everyone else.

Unfortunately... not going so well.

Deckhand said:
Which save did you take?
Where did you settle?
Did you find enough AIs to be able to trade techs?
Are you doing the Space Gauntlet or the Culture Gauntlet or trying to sneak fastest & lowest from a VC that no one else is attempting?
And how did your game go up to 1AD?

Which save did you take?

I took the Contender Save. I normally play on Prince, so it is a step up in difficulty.

Where did you settle?
I moved 2S1E and settled along the coast so that I could split the visible resources between my first and second cities. Seems like many others did this too.

Did you find enough AIs to be able to trade techs?
No - my scout was killed in a surprise attack by a bear early so I didn't get to explore far enough to find any AI. Eventually English scouts found me. Based on their leader, and our own leader, I assumed that is how every civ will be, but haven't met any others yet.

Are you doing the Space Gauntlet or the Culture Gauntlet or trying to sneak fastest & lowest from a VC that no one else is attempting?

Just trying to survive. I am not used to this new interface, the BUFFY thing, and it kind of screwed me over. At some point barbarians started attacking me. I only had 3 cities and was focused on defending the southern two, leaving just a lone warrior in the northern gem/deer city.

Well, at some point there was a lone barbarian warrior next to the city, but then 2-3 turns later I looked and he was "gone". I didn't remember him attacking the city, but I didn't see him anywhere. Anyways, there were now archers descending on my capital so I decided to move the lone warrior from that city down to help defend.

It turns out, the barbarian warrior had moved to the gems and, with this new interface, I couldn't see him because he was hidden behind the bubble and also I didn't get any notification that he was still there. As such, he simply walked into my city the next turn and captured it.

This basically ruined the game for me as I then had to spend several turns to focus on retaking the city rather than expanding as I had planned. :mad:

I usually don't reload games, but that was one of the things that I would normally reload for since it was so stupid and unfair (I wouldn't have moved the warrior and therefore wouldn't have lost the city if I had been able to see that the barb was right next to it). However, since the rules are not to reload, I didn't and just dealt with it.

And how did your game go up to 1AD?

"Everything was good until we all died" or something like that.

Actually, it was a good start until the barbarians started coming. I built the Oracle (in 1560 BC and got Code of Laws) and somehow managed to found both Taoism (300 BC) and Confucianism* (1520 BC) - and since England didn't have a religion I converted them to Taoism, built the Dai Miao with a Great Prophet to cash in on them spreading it... but then I was 3 turns away from building the Great Wall when I got a message that it had been built elsewhere. Shortly after that, the debacle above happened. :crazyeye:

I think I am probably screwed now, but I guess I'll see if I can salvage anything.

*Edit: I didn't realize that Code of Laws founds Confucianism now. I thought something else did. So obviously I got it by Orcing.

Deckhand · Jan 20, 2014

ZeekLTK said:
I took the Contender Save. I normally play on Prince, so it is a step up in difficulty.

Actually two steps up as it goes ... Noble, Prince, Monarch, Emperor...

In hindsight, you should have taken the Adventurer save. I set the Adventurer two levels lower to help out players like you that aren't comfortable on Emperor.

Where did you settle?
I moved 2S1E and settled along the coast so that I could split the visible resources between my first and second cities. Seems like many others did this too.

Did you find enough AIs to be able to trade techs?
No - my scout was killed in a surprise attack by a bear early so I didn't get to explore far enough to find any AI. Eventually English scouts found me. Based on their leader, and our own leader, I assumed that is how every civ will be, but haven't met any others yet.

Mansa will trade with anyone. He doesn't require his techs to be known by at least 2 AIs. My question was tongue in cheek.

Are you doing the Space Gauntlet or the Culture Gauntlet or trying to sneak fastest & lowest from a VC that no one else is attempting?

Just trying to survive. I am not used to this new interface, the BUFFY thing, and it kind of screwed me over. At some point barbarians started attacking me. I only had 3 cities and was focused on defending the southern two, leaving just a lone warrior in the northern gem/deer city.

Well, at some point there was a lone barbarian warrior next to the city, but then 2-3 turns later I looked and he was "gone". I didn't remember him attacking the city, but I didn't see him anywhere. Anyways, there were now archers descending on my capital so I decided to move the lone warrior from that city down to help defend.

It turns out, the barbarian warrior had moved to the gems and, with this new interface, I couldn't see him because he was hidden behind the bubble and also I didn't get any notification that he was still there. As such, he simply walked into my city the next turn and captured it.

This basically ruined the game for me as I then had to spend several turns to focus on retaking the city rather than expanding as I had planned.

I usually don't reload games, but that was one of the things that I would normally reload for since it was so stupid and unfair (I wouldn't have moved the warrior and therefore wouldn't have lost the city if I had been able to see that the barb was right next to it). However, since the rules are not to reload, I didn't and just dealt with it.

Thanks for not reloading. :goodjob:

Sorry that BUFFY messed you up. Resource bubbles aren't a BUFFY thing, you know to toggle them?

And how did your game go up to 1AD?

"Everything was good until we all died" or something like that.

Actually, it was a good start until the barbarians started coming. I built the Oracle (in 1560 BC and got Code of Laws) and somehow managed to found both Taoism (300 BC) and Confucianism* (1520 BC) - and since England didn't have a religion I converted them to Taoism, built the Dai Miao with a Great Prophet to cash in on them spreading it... but then I was 3 turns away from building the Great Wall when I got a message that it had been built elsewhere. Shortly after that, the debacle above happened.

I think I am probably screwed now, but I guess I'll see if I can salvage anything.

*Edit: I didn't realize that Code of Laws founds Confucianism now. I thought something else did. So obviously I got it by Orcing.

Deckhand · Jan 20, 2014

ZeekLTK said:
Just trying to survive. I am not used to this new interface, the BUFFY thing, and it kind of screwed me over. At some point barbarians started attacking me. I only had 3 cities and was focused on defending the southern two, leaving just a lone warrior in the northern gem/deer city.

Well, at some point there was a lone barbarian warrior next to the city, but then 2-3 turns later I looked and he was "gone". I didn't remember him attacking the city, but I didn't see him anywhere. Anyways, there were now archers descending on my capital so I decided to move the lone warrior from that city down to help defend.

It turns out, the barbarian warrior had moved to the gems and, with this new interface, I couldn't see him because he was hidden behind the bubble and also I didn't get any notification that he was still there. As such, he simply walked into my city the next turn and captured it.

This basically ruined the game for me as I then had to spend several turns to focus on retaking the city rather than expanding as I had planned.

I suggest using the F5 screen to look for barbarian units at the start of your turn.
I've been surprised a few times when I misunderstood which barbarian the events log was warning me about.

LincolnOfRome · Jan 21, 2014

I settled in place. Second city want to the inland to the floodplains and gold. Third city went north to the deer/gems. I expanded to seven cities by 1AD while taking advantage of resources to do a little wonder whoring. I managed to get the pyramids, great lighthouse, and great wall. I lost the race to get Oracle, Stonehenge, and great library. I also lost the Confucianism race by one turn.

I forgot to switch to republic/caste when I first built the pyramids. Even when I switched, I accidentally chose hereditary rule, and lost my beaker bonus. Still, by 1 AD I had managed to bulb philosophy and compass. I am running quite a few specialists. I have four cities now running at least two, and a couple running four. Two great scientists and a great spy have emerged so far.

I initially wanted to have the floodplain/gold site as my NE site, but that changed after founding Taoism in that site. I decided to make it my future shrine/Wall Street site, and so I cottaged over my farms. I then decided to make the floodplains near the coast my NE site. While moving the site, I lost the great library race.

I waited to hook up the iron and left each city guarded by a single warrior as I am familiar with Mansa's disposition and had the great wall. Still, I was a bit confused by the unrestricted leaders. I initially didn't consider an early rush because I thought the English Mansa would have skirmishers somehow. Anyway, after founding Taoism, a few a few of the English cities converted. It looks like it is going to be friendly on the continent. Besides the great scientists, I also settled a spy in the deer/gems city. I'll set that up as a spy city, build Scotland Yard, and settle spies there. The settled spy has helped me steal a few early techs like iron working, horseback riding, and literature. In a few turns I will have an early optics and make contact with who I think might be more Mansas.

Mansa's spiritual trait is quite powerful. I find myself constantly switching between caste for border pops, and slavery to whip granaries and settlers.

haphazard1 · Jan 21, 2014

I settled 1S1E, went WB first, teched Hunting -> AH for the food. Second city went to the stone/gems/deer site, third to the cluster of flood plains. By 1 AD I had seven cities with plans for 4 more (eventually) to fill out my share of the starting continent.

I built the Great Wall so had minimal barb issues. Oracled MC and built an early Colossus, with plans for many more wonders later. I founded Confucianism and things were chummy with Mansa VIII for a while but then he founded Taoism and relations have taken a turn for the worse.

Still, he is a Mansa so we have traded quite a few techs, keeping the overall pace moving.

I have not decided on a VC yet. A lot depends on how advanced the off-continent civs are once I make contact.

astre · Jan 21, 2014

had 6 cities at 1 AD
I got all wonders i wanted (read all except ToA, stonehedge, statue of zeus) except panteon i loose by one turn but fail gold was nice. All of those are in cap (1SE of starting place) except pyramid

I beelined CS (some might it rushed) then optic (75BC) then music (2 turns after 1AD)
Have 3 GP wandering, i'll start chain GA one day.

Mitchum · Jan 21, 2014

I played a somewhat unfocused opening in one playing session all the way to 500 AD. I have a few half-finished monuments that I abandoned in favor of libraries. I moved a worker to improve the deer for city 2 and realized that I didn't have hunting yet, which delayed my gems mine by one turn. A 30H chop meant for a city to be settled on that turn got completed accidentally before the city was settled and it became a 13H chop to some other city instead. Other smallish errors compounded along the way due to lack of focus. The plan was to Oracle Civil Service but the Oracle was built in 1520 BC which is quite early for this level.

I settled 1SE with the second city settled to the north with both deer and gems in the inner ring. At 1 AD I had 8 cities, Pyramids (500 BC), GLib (25 BC) and Hanging Gardens (1 AD). I've got all Ancient techs plus Literature, Math, Currency, Alphabet, CoL, CS, MC, IW and Monarchy. I have yet to spawn a single great person... :eek:

I'm aiming for fastest Space Colony but I suspect that I'm already quite a bit behind at 1 AD... especially if someone is able to pull of the CS sling!! 10 cities + Education by 1 AD was my target and I'm way behind that.

whb · Jan 23, 2014

Blech. Mediocre game of just missing out on stuff so far. Even managed not to spot some fish so mucked up my city placement horribly. The other Mansa settled aggressively in my direction, so I'm behind on cities and there's not too many city spots left either. So the game will involve a war with a larger opponent, without a tech advantage, which I haven't tended to need to do in games before.

But the big question is -- will the ambulance be green or red?

Minou · Jan 24, 2014

Going for Cultural Victory.

Stuck on the island, my general game plan was to found as many religions as possible and once I had a clear advantage wipe out my neighbor and (probably) use their capital as the third culture city. The first part of the plan has failed.

Settled SSE on the hill and built Worker, WB, Worker, Settler with hammers put into Warriors while growing. Researched AH first for the Sheep and Cow, then BW, Wheel and Masonry. Second city was founded on the Stone, not a great place but the early Gems were too good to pass up. Third city founded by 4FP and Horses, fourth city by 5FPs, Fish, Iron and Incense, and fifth city in center of island near Deer, Horse, Wheat and Oasis.

Most of my efforts have been to grow quickly and get cottages worked. I have 14 going now (92bpt at 60%), and each city has a granary, library, temple, and monastery except the fifth one. Managed to get the Oracle for COL in 1480BC, as well as Pyramids, Parthenon, and Mausoleum. One GS was used on an Academy in 750BC, and another is saved for Education.

I made no effort for the first two religions and as expected they went ~3500BC. I did go for Judaism, but it was FAD in 2480BC before I even finished Polytheism (researched Masonry first, which at least hooked up building materials). It was disappointing that none of these three religions were founded on my island, as it will now probably not be worth going after them. Founded Confucianism and Christianity, but missed Taoism by 4 turns.

Right now I am about to hit Music and am reasonably close to AP. A stack of catapults and swordmen is being prepared to invade Mansa. With only three religion's (assuming I found Islam), I need to claim some food-rich lands for generating Great Artists. I am not sure if I should have attacked earlier - I never tried stealing a worker because I did not want to trigger any military build up. I'm also not sure if I played the trading game correctly. I let Mansa get Alphabet while chasing religions and traded for a bunch of techs. I may just stop researching after getting Liberalism, Nationalism and Divine Right and wait for ships to reach me and trade these techs to the other (presumably) Mansas.

Jastrow · Jan 25, 2014

Sounds like I got lucky... I slung CS on turn 63 or 64 (forget which), which would be 1480 or 1440. At the time, I felt like that was a pretty safe date, so was not even particularly worried about loosing it. From looking at this tread, it seems that assessment was way of, and I was fortunate to get it.

I decided NOT to go for the perimids. With all 3 metals available, I did not see any happy problem in my future, and I dont think I will be running many specialist before I have to get constitution for corperations in any event, so I preferred to put the hammers in expansion. I did splurge on the Great Lighthouse and the Hanging Gardens however. (And Mausoleum is three turns away, so I should get that too.)

I also decided NOT to beeline education... The starting spot is a decent production beuro-capital, but nothing special. I decided that I would build oxford a bit later, in the floodplains city, and move my capital there at some point in time.

So, I settled 1SE, went worker first + AH. Pastured sheep and Cow. Built Workboat after worker, while growing on Sheep. At size two, worked sheep + 3Hammer tile, to get workboat assap. Mining for gold next, then BW. After WB, a warrior for Mil-police, and then worker-settler (chopped), which went to 1E of the stone. Minded Gem asap, and connect the cities with a road. Library first in city two, and library following settler in capital. Worked two scientist as soon as possible in cap, and around turn 61, put an acadamy there. CS-sling came in 2 or 3 turns later.

City 3 went to the floodplains, and should become my future capital. Other cities include (I forget the settling order).

-Fish+double silver
-Fish south of capital
-On Desert copper
-On south coast, sharing horses and a few of the easter FP.
-In the corner for the eastern floodplains+fish. That will be my GP-farm.
-Wheet+sheep
-Fish+Silver north of that wheat spot.
-Dear-horse to the west of that site (on coast)

So 11 cities at 0AD. I could easily have more, but no other sites felt worth settling at this time. I also have a settler on a boat on the way to the island to the far-SE, so that I will have at least some overseas traderoutes after I purge the starting continent of England.

England has 6 cities at this stage, and I am currently building up a few cats and assorted other bits to annex those. I should be taking the first of them in about 8 turns from now, and expect the others to fall within 30 turns total.

At 1AD, I am pulling in 242 bpt at 100%, and have enough gold in the bank (237) to finish compass. I research about 100 bpt at break even, which is around 40%.

Research wise, I have Philo,CS,Construction,Calander,and am 2 turns from Compass. From there, I plan to go optics, and then paper-printpress-education, move the capital, and start pounding out the techs.

I have spawned only 2 GP so far Both scientist, and turned them into two acadamies, one each in the current, and future, capitals.

Mitchum · Jan 25, 2014

Nice start, Jastrow. It sounds like you could have done about what I planned (i.e. CS sling, 10 cities + Education by 1 AD) had you chosen Education before Optics. Nicely done!!

At 1 AD, I'd say you have about a 10-turn lead on me. I had to self-tech CS and didn't learn it until T94, which is ~30 turns after you! :eek:

Interesting choice to build 2 academies. That definitely helped you in the short-term but long term I have trouble seeing how two academies is better than one academy and using the other for a bulb. I guess the only way I have to catch up will be with faster, more efficient warring. Barring that, I'm not sure how to make up that much ground...

Jastrow · Jan 25, 2014

Going to space, what is realistic... 230 turns would be an outstanding date... Both acadamies were built before 110, so that is at least 120 turns.

I expect that by turn 130, each of the two cities will have abour 35 raw beakers, so that is an extra ~17 for each academie. 17*130=2200+... The raw beakers will nearly double in both cities by the endgame (specialist), so in total beakers, each should comfortably bring in 2.5 to 3 times what a bulb would bring. Of course, the bulb pays back quicker, and therefore snowballs... Close call, but it feels right to me.

And dont worry... You know I am helpless in war... 10 turns is not nearly enough of a lead to hold on to.

MarleysGh0st · Jan 26, 2014

I took the Contender save and settled in place.

By 1 AD, I have six cities, no wonders, and Mansa VIII is crowding me in. There will have to be a war, but he appears to have many more units than I do. I've been concentrating on building the economy to keep my research rate up.

unclethrill · Jan 30, 2014

I took the contender save and well I got almost every wonder in my cap but lost 2 settlers to barbs so that has put me behind a bit. Expanding well but still have only met 1 AI.

WastinTime · Jan 31, 2014

WastinTime, challenger save (gems/gold moved east), goal : wonder hog, eventually win culture

Without the gems/gold, I think it's obvious to SIP.

Side note about the evil mapmaker :mad:

Spoiler :

For fun, I figured I would just try to get all the wonders with that start. I bagged Stonehenge, GreatWall, Temple of Art, GreatLighthouse, GreatLib, HangingG

Unfortunately, Oracle went somewhere around turn 55, so I had no chance. And then I missed pyramids cus I thought I could get all those other wonders first. I was slow-building mids in my 2nd city. Ironically, those are the two wonders I would normally really want (other than the key artist-wonders). So huge fail there.

My new style of culture games includes a war component... or so I thought. I planned to get some tech from Mansa and then wipe him out for free cities and workers. However, my Mansa decided to beeline longbows before 500 BC. And his cities were on hills with walls, so I had to go 'old school' and build settlers and workers.

Luckily my Mansa did not expand west. I have 9 cities which are all capable of making a Great Artist by the end of the game. However, with my myriad of wonders, I'm going to get an uncontrollable array of GP. This is not normally my style of play. I put all the artist wonders in a 2nd city for a pure gene pool. My capital has all the non-artist wonders.

I am first to Music, so at least I have one GA.

I'm usually all about Civil Service, but since Mansa did CoL, I went for Music. Now, it's so late, and I have Theo (see below), so i'm just going to go straight for Paper and try to get CS free in trade. It's painful to have my 'wonder city' without bureaucracy, but you gotta play the cards you're dealt.

Religion: Like Minou I could not get an early one and they're not on my continent. However, my Mansa got CoL first! and my early Stonehenge (which was really nice btw for border pops) got me a G.Prophet which I used to bulb Theo (christianity). I'm thinking I might bulb Philo too for Tao, but it's very likely that my Mansa will do this for me (free Philo and another religion!). I may bulb divine right if I get too many G.prophets...there's something I've never done either, but that would be 4 religions which is usually enough.

Pollina · Jan 31, 2014

Contender save, Goal: fastest Space Colony

I settled SE and was planning to get CoL from Oracle, but it went 2040 BC in my game. After that, I didnt want to miss any more wonders and sacrificed expansion to chop out GLH (~1500 BC, before maths :cringe:

), Pyramids (~1000 BC) and GLib (~500 BC).

I settled only 5 cities so far. Seeing that Mansa VIII ignored his iron and that his cities were only weakly defended I built some horse archers instead. At 1 AD, I have captured 2 of his cities and should be able to take his capital next turn. After popping a gold mine(?), London is the perfect site for my future Oxford capital. I plan to take most of Mansas cities, then take a tech or two (Currency/Civil Service/Monarchy) for peace. Or maybe trading for those techs after a cease fire is better? I need to switch back into builder mode sometime soon and settle the rest of the continent.

Tech path was Maths (chops)->Alpha->Literature->Machinery->Optics. I got Iron Working, Metal Casting, Code of Laws and a few ancient techs from Mansa. My tech pace isnt all that great (142 bpt (-58 gpt)), since Ive been whipping out HA these past turns. I am 1 turn away from Optics and hope to meet some more trading partners (more Mansas?) soon. Only great person so far was a Great Merchant that I used for a trade mission. I was planning to bulb into Astro with my next Great Scientist (5 turns, 75% odds), but I accidently traded for Meditation, so I will have to get Philo first or get CS from Mansa VIII and go for Education instead.

BOTM 74 First Spoiler - 1AD

Procrastination at its finest