Kael
Deity
eekhoorn said:
They are already in.
Brainstorming: Weaknesses of the AI
- Thread starter Chalid
- Start date
They are already in.
lorgen
Chief Inspector
eekhoorn said:
In the main thread Kael a couple of days ago wrote that they are implemented already...
EDIT: Oops... too slow there
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
eekhoorn said:
Apparently this stuff has already been added to the mod and I was a bit late at realizing this when I posted.
A thought. How about changing Spring and Sanctify to Worker actions, obtained automatically if the mana is available? Then edit the Worker code so that the AI understands what those actions do - that'd make the AI players actively use those abilities (and it'd allow human players to just automate their Workers and avoid the possibly tedious micromanagement of moving units around to have every square Spring'ed).
A downside is that you'd have to come up with new Channeling I spells for Life and Water (not necessarily a bad thing, since the Life I promotion is pretty much useless anyway). Maybe Water I would be Tidal Wave (minor damage to water-based units within a 1-square radius, may only be cast near water) or Tap Reservoir (forces the creation of an Aqueduct in a city that doesn't have one - either for only as long as the caster is present, or sacrificing the caster in order to do so). Life I might be the equivalent of a Medic promotion, give the ability to confer a one-turn Immunity to Disease, cause minor disease to undead, or boost the Health of a city by one for as long as the caster is present. Or something.
A downside is that you'd have to come up with new Channeling I spells for Life and Water (not necessarily a bad thing, since the Life I promotion is pretty much useless anyway). Maybe Water I would be Tidal Wave (minor damage to water-based units within a 1-square radius, may only be cast near water) or Tap Reservoir (forces the creation of an Aqueduct in a city that doesn't have one - either for only as long as the caster is present, or sacrificing the caster in order to do so). Life I might be the equivalent of a Medic promotion, give the ability to confer a one-turn Immunity to Disease, cause minor disease to undead, or boost the Health of a city by one for as long as the caster is present. Or something.
DieselBiscuit
Shoggoth tickler
Kael said:
Yay! That's great! Really looking forward to fool around with that code
Chandrasekhar
Determined
Firstly, I think this thread needs a bump. A few of the recent issues that have been given their own thread might fall under this thread's umbrella.
Second, I'd like to say that I saw Basium with a few axemen at year 200! I haven't played FfH much since the update that was supposedly going to make the AI build more training yards and such, but apparently it's working nicely.
Second, I'd like to say that I saw Basium with a few axemen at year 200! I haven't played FfH much since the update that was supposedly going to make the AI build more training yards and such, but apparently it's working nicely.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
They also seem to be managing their technologies pretty well, too. I got beat out to a couple of free great people in my most recent game (Monarch), and it seems that they haven't rushed for Typhoid Mary either.
I am glad to say with the latest patch the AI was building fishing boats in my game tonight and wanting to trade for fishing/sailing a lot more readily than it has in past games. I have noticed the A.I. seems to really be in love with the Pirate ship though, to the point that as soon as he gets optics I have never seen it build any other type of ship.
OzzyKP
Deity
The automated workers were ridiculously bad in my current game.
They were farming and building roads in areas far outside my workable city tiles when there were cities whose workable tiles weren't touched at all. Later I looked for some of my workers and 3 of them were sitting in a city that had zero improvements.
So yea, something is seriously out of whack.
They were farming and building roads in areas far outside my workable city tiles when there were cities whose workable tiles weren't touched at all. Later I looked for some of my workers and 3 of them were sitting in a city that had zero improvements.
So yea, something is seriously out of whack.
Rod
King
Hello,
this is about version 2.015 , because 2.016 is currently giving me a problem and only 2.015 runs stable, so please correct me if some changes have been addressed in 2.016 already.
Enviroment : Tiny Landmass, Archipelago, 8 civs alltogether, medium temperature, climate and medium sea level.
Epic Game Speed, Civ : Elohim (my first game for testing)
Difficulty : Prince (for testing FFH)
First Issue :
AI is not researching sailing early . It happened that even in turn 450 still one civ had no Sailing.
I was first to discover Sailing and I peacefully claimed 40 % of landmass .. without rushing settlers and keeping research on 50 %- 70 % ..that doesnt make sense
Second Issue :
AI City Founding behaviour .. is simply horrible. I do not know whether te Blake Algorithms were introduced in 2.016 only, but please clarify on this. If the version 2.015 is supposed to run with blake's changes that there is a huge issue.
AI is founding only 2 city on a land that could host 4 cities easily. It is claiming only 70 % of the possible food resources. It is constantly not founding cities on resources (there we need a tweak with Mana Nodes)
The results in my game are horrible for the AI. I have High Priests in 450 and they defend with Javelineers and Bloodpets and this through all opponents.
I played as Elohim, so no real early offence to slow opponents down .. they simply did not progress properly.
this is about version 2.015 , because 2.016 is currently giving me a problem and only 2.015 runs stable, so please correct me if some changes have been addressed in 2.016 already.
Enviroment : Tiny Landmass, Archipelago, 8 civs alltogether, medium temperature, climate and medium sea level.
Epic Game Speed, Civ : Elohim (my first game for testing)
Difficulty : Prince (for testing FFH)
First Issue :
AI is not researching sailing early . It happened that even in turn 450 still one civ had no Sailing.
I was first to discover Sailing and I peacefully claimed 40 % of landmass .. without rushing settlers and keeping research on 50 %- 70 % ..that doesnt make sense
Second Issue :
AI City Founding behaviour .. is simply horrible. I do not know whether te Blake Algorithms were introduced in 2.016 only, but please clarify on this. If the version 2.015 is supposed to run with blake's changes that there is a huge issue.
AI is founding only 2 city on a land that could host 4 cities easily. It is claiming only 70 % of the possible food resources. It is constantly not founding cities on resources (there we need a tweak with Mana Nodes)
The results in my game are horrible for the AI. I have High Priests in 450 and they defend with Javelineers and Bloodpets and this through all opponents.
I played as Elohim, so no real early offence to slow opponents down .. they simply did not progress properly.
vorshlumpf
Emperor
Is this collection of suggestions still being used? I've got a few more from my most recent game.
- Niilo
- Niilo
- Acheron is having issues with his meteors. Often he'll send them out scouting when an enemy is nearby. He sends them out every turn regardless, which is detrimental to the productivity of his city (no forest). Of course, every AI unit with meteors/fireballs would have similar problems.
- The AI needs to recognise useless battles - such as the situation where an invading unit cannot pillage anything (like a skeleton or recon unit) or when the enemy unit is a summoned unit that has run out of movement points (and will disappear before the next turn).
- The AI has far too much desire to kill HN units. It will send out its best city defenders in suicide missions against them. This is one of the best exploits for weaking the AI players - get some decent HN units and plant them on a wooded hill inside their territory. Soon, the nearby AI cities will be empty or down to one weak unit (like a horseman).
- The AI doesn't seem to realise the time/distance limitations of summoned units. One example was when I had units stationed far enough away from an enemy conjurer that his nightmares would always be one tile short of attacking me. He only needed to take a single step out his city with the summoning unit to make them have an effect.
I noticed that the behavior of this function is different for humans players and the AI. Specifically, for humans, growth won't be avoided under default conditions until there is at least 1 unhealth or unhappiness; for the AI, it doesn't grow to that point.
Obviously, the AI behavior is a little better, but the human behavior grants a more explicit warning of the problem. I think that ideally, one would use the AI behavior, and warn when the limit was reached.
Obviously, the AI behavior is a little better, but the human behavior grants a more explicit warning of the problem. I think that ideally, one would use the AI behavior, and warn when the limit was reached.
if you automate your worker, it sometimes ignores new far away tiles that you get by expanding borders. i often see unused tiles at my borders and all my workers sitting idle in cities.
also the elves workers doesnt seem to understand fully how to upgrade forest tiles automated.
this has already been reported but the AI vs player relations is unbalanced since the AI's will constantly keep asking for you to either: 1. join a war with them or 2. demand tech and resource tributes or 3. stop trading with another civ, while you are unable to do the same thing to them.
also the elves workers doesnt seem to understand fully how to upgrade forest tiles automated.
this has already been reported but the AI vs player relations is unbalanced since the AI's will constantly keep asking for you to either: 1. join a war with them or 2. demand tech and resource tributes or 3. stop trading with another civ, while you are unable to do the same thing to them.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon with skeletons. I had a couple of barrows by my capital that I never got around to crushing, but the skeletons pretty much left me alone... until year 100. Then, I got swarmed by probably a dozen skeletons at once. This behavior is consistent in the games I've been playing. Is this consciously designed behavior, or some symptom of another change? In any case, it's a smart move on the AI's part.
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon with skeletons. I had a couple of barrows by my capital that I never got around to crushing, but the skeletons pretty much left me alone... until year 100. Then, I got swarmed by probably a dozen skeletons at once. This behavior is consistent in the games I've been playing. Is this consciously designed behavior, or some symptom of another change? In any case, it's a smart move on the AI's part.
it's about the most intelligence extered by the barb ai i've ever seen...
of course it's with skeletons, which probably don't have any brains left anyway...
rofl
Kael
Deity
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon with skeletons. I had a couple of barrows by my capital that I never got around to crushing, but the skeletons pretty much left me alone... until year 100. Then, I got swarmed by probably a dozen skeletons at once. This behavior is consistent in the games I've been playing. Is this consciously designed behavior, or some symptom of another change? In any case, it's a smart move on the AI's part.
The barbarian player picks a civ to focus on instead of just randomly attacking. In this case I think the barbarian player was probably targeting someone else until he gained enough skeletons on your continent that he thought you would be an easier target and switched over.
Kael
Deity
Yeah. Its important to remember that there is no such thing as Unit AI in civ4. There is only player AI, the AI player decides what his goals is and what to do (and how he can use his units to acheive it). There is no AI at a unit level like you would have in a role playing, action or FPS game.
