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Brave New World's 9 new Civs

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Major agree with your last statement, WillBill! Our country has many more fitting and interesting stuff to be added than that, also, stuff with more historical relevance. I hope we see a UI of an Engenho there - personnaly, I love UIs and I'd be very happy if my country had one in civ!

I'm also glad that about 90% of the people here are putting Brazil in their lists, it makes me think they are really going to be there. Long time no see :)
 
After reading through this thread, I think the nine we'll see are:

1. Poland
2. Assyria (granted that the siege tower belongs to them and isn't a generic new unit)
3. Portugal
4. Zulu
5. Indonesia
6. Brazil
7. a Native American (Sioux, Apache, Cherokee, etc. come to mind)
8. an African (Kongo makes the most sense in my mind)
9. a 'dark horse' (my personal favorites for a 'surprise' civ are the Inuit, Hebrews, or Nepal)

I don't see Belgium or Italy getting in. I think they may very well be included in the Scramble for Africa scenario, but not in the main game.

I was thinking that this expansion probably concludes the content for CiV, notwithstanding future patching. With that in mind, what chance is there that they might include some preorder bonus civs? I had in mind both Sumeria and the Hittites, as they already had work done for UUs (Phalanx and Heavy Chariot)? Obviously effort would still be put in on them, but some of the work is taken care of. Don't think this will happen, but it would be nice to have four fully done Mesopotamian civs (Babylon, Assyria, Sumeria, and the Hittites).
 
Canada, Belgium and South-Africa would be horrible choices for several reasons. I would not call these civilizations. They are modern states that dont even have that much unique culture. I'm very hopeful that "civs" like this will not be added.

Pretty much all previous Civs have long history (most thousands of years), unique language, unique culture etc. America being the only exception.

Absolutely agree
Australia goes to the same category, and Brazil too to some extent

I don't see Belgium or Italy getting in. I think they may very well be included in the Scramble for Africa scenario, but not in the main game.

Yep, same as my thoughts
No need for Italy or Belgium at all, at least not as full civs
They just don't fit into the term civilization, not in the sense Firaxis chose almost all the other ones
 
Brazil is the new Poland!
(And this must be the ony place on the whole planet where this sentence makes sense)


I'd also love to see the Engenho as an UI in-game (UI are just awesome). It fits quite well with the civ and can receive incresing returns with technology improvements (like biopower). But well, let's wait and see :)
 
Absolutely agree
Australia goes to the same category, and Brazil too to some extent



Yep, same as my thoughts
No need for Italy or Belgium at all, at least not as full civs
They just don't fit into the term civilization, not in the sense Firaxis choose almost all the other ones

Brazil can represent all the indigenous peoples of the region, like Tupis and Guaranis, thousands of years old. We cant forget that for most of his history (maybe until around 1800), Brazil had more indians than european decedents.
 
I'm new here, so be gentle. The question of which civ's to include involves much more than historical significance. An even more important factor in my opinion is diversity. IMO the game would be somewhat less interesting if Polynesia wasn't included. Putting aside the fact that it's not really a civ in the "traditional" sense, it's also somewhat difficult to make a case for its inclusion on historical grounds. Nonetheless, it makes the game more geographically diverse and (again IMO) more interesting to play.

My wild-ass guesses with leaders and confidence:
Poland (Casimir III) 100%
Assyria (Shamsi-Adad I) - 100%
Zulu (Shaka) - 90%
Kongo (Nzinga Mbemba/Afonso I) - 50% - could be another African civ in its place I suppose but we need two for sure
Brazil (Pedro II) - 70% - There's got to be at least one new S. American civ and this one makes the most sense
Indonesia (Gajah Mada) - 50% - Ditto for Asia
Portugal (Joao II) - 60%
Khmer (Jayavarman II) - 35% - the only other candidate for Asia is Vietnam I would think.
Sioux (Sitting Bull) - 20% - have a feeling another native American civ will be added for $$ reasons. I'd much prefer seeing Israel or the Almohad in this slot)

Other than the Khmer I think this is a pretty reasonable list. Khmer I think is highly, highly unlikely given that it's way too close to Siam - I think that Vietnam has a better chance than the Khmer in this regard, even though I think Vietnam's chances are moot.
 
Brazil can represent all the indigenous peoples of the region, like Tupis and Guaranis, thousands of years old. We cant forget that for most of his history (maybe until around 1800), Brazil had more indians than european decedents.
Shouldn't it then be Tupi or Guarani instead of Brasil if we go for another South American civ, then?
 
Shouldn't it then be Tupi or Guarani instead of Brasil if we go for another South American civ, then?

They weren't even a civilization . Unlike other american natives,they didn't even found cities and to argue in favor of Brazil,most of them even helped the Portuguese to populate the newly discovered continent .
 
Brazil can represent all the indigenous peoples of the region, like Tupis and Guaranis, thousands of years old. We cant forget that for most of his history (maybe until around 1800), Brazil had more indians than european decedents.

Actually I would rather have the Tupi and the Guarani as civs instead of Brazil
Espeically if they were somewhat more developed
Same for Argentina and the Mapuche
I don't think colonial civs fit into the civ series
I'm not even sure I would include the USA either, if I were the one who puts together the civ list for Civ VI

EDIT:
Shouldn't it then be Tupi or Guarani instead of Brasil if we go for another South American civ, then?

Yep, same thoughts as mine
 
Actually, I always preferred ancient powers. I would love Hitites, Parthia, Sumeria, Numidia...

But, if the game now requires modern civs, Brazil should at least be a candidate.
 
Actually I would rather have the Tupi and the Guarani as civs instead of Brazil
Espeically if they were somewhat more developed
Same for Argentina and the Mapuche
I don't think colonial civs fit into the civ series
I'm not even sure I would include the USA either, if I were the one who puts together the civ list for Civ VI

EDIT:


Yep, same thoughts as mine



but the Tupi Guarani were not civilizations.

they not even built towns
 
The Tupi was one of the natives in Civ IV: Colonization. They came up with a capital, city-list and a leader for them, I guess the same could be done again. There's some Tupi speakers in big universities, and a lot of Guarani speakers. Also, it shouldn't be difficult to create unique features for them.

However, I don't know if (most) people ever head of them outside Brazil. Maybe they heard something (ah, those cannibals from Brazil), but I don't think the Tupi are easily marketable. Also, a lot of people would complain about how they were a neolithic people with only a moderate influence in modern Brazil and basically no influence in the bigger world...

but the Tupi Guarani were not civilizations.

they not even built towns

Well, there are those guys called the Huns...
 
I hope Brazil makes the cut as well. If it doesn't it's first on my list of things to mod in. I do think it's a good fit for the expansion, with the focus on modern-ish eras. I think Brazil has established a unique and interesting identity, and is becoming and will continue to be an important force in S. American and global politics. I think that warrants its inclusion.

I also reckon Portugal and Zulu are a must. I think we'll see a 2nd African Civ (I'm hoping for Kongo) as well as a Native American one, likely the Sioux. The Indonesian wonder bodes well for Indonesia as a Civ. Lastly, I wouldn't mind seeing an extra Asian civ (Vietnam or Khmer), another Native American one (Inuit/Anasazi/Mississippi) or, least preferably I guess, Sumer. I buy the concept that Tibet and Israel are off-limits for political reasons, so I don't think those will make it.

The only argument I have against Italy is that it'd sorta take the legs out of the city states (not the names but the concepts) and I think there are more interesting possibilities. I wouldn't be upset about it though.
 
That's definitely the best version of this music I've ever heard!

Anyway, some (or most) civilizations don't use the same music for both themes.

Related: For peace: Villa-Lobos' Choro nº 1
For war: Carlos Gomes' Il Guarani

That War theme is simply godly . Thanks for finding such great song :goodjob:

However, I don't know if (most) people ever head of them outside Brazil. Maybe they heard something (ah, those cannibals from Brazil), but I don't think the Tupi are easily marketable. Also, a lot of people would complain about how they were a neolithic people with only a moderate influence in modern Brazil and basically no influence in the bigger world...

Also,if Tupi or Guarani get represented in Civ5 before Brazil,there would be a nearly infinite ranting about how a bunch of disorganized tribes that didn't even have a permanent settling got a place before a recognized and impacting civilization,just because they aren't "modern" .
 
I know this discussion is pretty much settled, but I wouldn't want to let this unanswered.

Thanks for the history lesson. But you answered the predicament at large. Why are people not familiar with Brazillian history? Because nobody else cares. It was never mentioned in history classes to people outside of Brazil/South America. I wasn't in any advanced history courses, but what I remember was Portugal dominating the colonial expansion in South America, and some nation cropping up from the woodwork that became known as modern Brazil.

I agree with some other nations though. Sweden has done nothing I can make a note of off the top of my head. Maya, Inca, Iroquois, they get in no question. The uniqueness for starters. They were here before everyone else. Don't know why you lump those civs into the mix.

Again, this about Old World vs New World. And no modern New World civs have any business in the base game, other than America for obvious reasons. Indigenous Africa, I can dig it (although Ethiopia is too modernized for my liking). Indigenous Australia? The Aborigine didn't really leave anything significant behind to be admired for generations to come. I can do without them. Same for Inuits.

When it comes to Old World, we are talking Eurasia and parts of North Africa. Everything else should be off the table, as they more than likely cropped up from Old World roots.

Well, as other people said, just because you don't have any knowledge about a nation doesn't mean this nation is inexistent or unimportant. I use the term 'pop out' just to help in my argumentation, without expectations that it would really be your belief. Since it is, I can only feel very sorry for that. I already explained my opinions about Brazil being relevant now and then and a lot of people in this forum had shown how well it could fit in the game, so I won't insist in this arguments.

The civilizations in the game are not about being ancient, as the United States have already proved wrong, and also not about being world dominant, as lot of others civs also proved wrong. The game is about representing different peoples who in some way succeeded in building a notable civilization against a number of odds. This doesn't mean that I'm in favor to Belgium, Italy, Canada, Australia, South Africa and etc. But only because I can't see how they cound differenciate themselves enought with preexisting civs in the game, not because they have less than a thousand years
of being what they are.

I defend Brazil because it has unquestionable relevance in South America, because it's a very large country and was also a very large empire, and because it has a significant culture.
 
So...from most to least likely:

1) POLAND
2) Assyria
3) Portugal
4) The Zulu
5) Native American Civ (The Sioux, The Cherokee, or The Comanche seem to be most likely, possibly The Anasazi, but I would love to see The Inuit)
6) Another African Civ (prob Kongo, possibly Nubia :))) or Ashanti)
7) Brazil
8) Another European Civ (Italy :))), Hungary, Holy Rome, Belgium :)mad:))
9) Dark Horse (Majpahit, Timurid, The Khmer, Israel, Phoenicia, Sumer, The Hittites, any excluded from above list)

You may notice the 'Dark Horse' list has many Asian civs; I am unsure if the 'Asia' category is a lock like the others.

On Portugal: Simply too impactful to be excluded; I see them as Europe's last GLARING omission (though I would LOVE to see Italy too)

On The Zulu: They are a civ tradition and I knew there would be more to come after G+K had no Zulu civ. I simply can't see them being excluded.

On Italy: Italy had an immense impact on history from Rome to the Renaissance and beyond and the 'historical merit' factor is THERE. However, this is an amalgamation of the varied Renaissance city-states which shared quite the cultural bond, but if Greece/Macedonia (NOT THE SAME) and Polynesia were mashed together Italy makes just as much sense in this regard.

On Belgium: Belgium had a very small impact on history compared to its neighbors and the only reason it even makes an appearance is the SfA scenario. I simply don't see justification for ANOTHER European civ.

On Native America: I see The Sioux as the best candidate, but I would really be open to all options. The one thing is, more than one new native civ seems to be unnecessary, especially with the Iroquois. The Inuit would be super fun [party] as a SNOW civ, something never seen before. The Anasazi could make an appearance as Mesa Verde CS/Wonder, but a city list could be troublesome.

On Africa: Personally, I see Nubia as the best choice (they conquered Egypt for a century, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt :egypt: :hammer: ) and the two are not as similar as many claim. The Kongo seem to be a more popular choice and I would also like to see them but they were less significant in history IMHO.

On Brazil: It isn't as modern as its critics claim: it is a colony as old as the US. Saying Brazil is like Portugal is like equating America with England/Britain, Mexico with Spain, Carthage and Phoenicia, or Belgium and the Congo, to name a few :twitch: . Also, it could be a civ focused toward the new aspect of tourism, which Brazil has no shortage of.

On Mesopotamia: Mesopotamia was one of history's most important regions and I never thought Babylon was enough. I would argue for Sumer as it was the 'first' civilization in history and they were in the Ancient Wonders scenario, but it was lots of city-states (not a problem IMHO). The Hittites would be an easy choice but maybe too similar to Assyria and Mesopotamia's kinda crowded esp. if Sumer makes it. I'd vote for Sumer but like both. Phoenicia could be another alternative especially with the expansion's trade theme, but I see Israel as too controversial.

Thoughts?
 
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