Brazil Arguably Has Better Science than Korea

[MarigoldRan]

Those +6 rainforest campuses. I'm having trouble keeping up with the inspirations since I'm teching too quickly.

 

[XplosiveLun]

Korea gets half-cost Seowon, it provides FREE +4 adjacency bonus and EXTRA science from mine and food from farm.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Thing is Korea gets them with more consistency.

But Brazil is underestimated for sure. Their other districts are strong, and plus with the street carnivals you can get those GEs without having to build IZs.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Every Korean Campus is +4.

Does every Brazilian Campus +6?

 

[Pietato]

Nah. Korea has science in every bonus.

 

[Sostratus]

EXTRA science from mine and food from farm.

This right here. If you properly place districts so seowons are always alone, in most cities that's 6 free extra yield, split between food and science. Science from mines is absolutely killer.
And Korea has that absolutely unnecessary governor bonus science. Drop a couple promos on Pingala and you are look at even more free science. There's a reason they nerfed it. In the korea FL, seowons had 6 science. Yeah... even toned down they are still disgusting science monsters.

 

[Portinou]

Not to mention, 1. to place a campus in the middle of rainforest you need bronze working... this hurts your early placement of potential +6 campuses and 2. when you go for science victory, you need a lot of production... and rainforest cannot be improved. So at some point in mid-game, you are hurt and have to trade science for production... Korea has neiher of these big problems.

 

[Victoria]

... it’s the Brazil’s theatres you want to have, they are not cut short in comparisons.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Except that rainforest tiles in the early game are the best. You're surrounded by 4-6 resource tiles. Bananas, spices, Oral Tradition, culture, food, production, happiness!

 

[Alexadamz]

... it’s the Brazil’s theatres you want to have, they are not cut short in comparisons.

Yeah, it is one of the best adjacency for Theater Squares in the game, more consistently doable. And, as a brazilian, I also like that it fits one part of our history: one of the biggest and most beautiful theathers in the country in located in Manaus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Theatre), right in the middle of the rainforest.

 

[Pistol90]

Brazil is better in Science than Korea but only on TSL map (particulary Giant) ... in any other case no, Korea is OP in such way that its almost imposlible to play agains them unless you destroy them early in game.

Whoever was responsable for at least some kind of balance in game messed up with Korea

 

[Victoria]

Whoever was responsable for at least some kind of balance in game messed up with Korea

I think it is more complicated than that. The AI is not very good at fighting so you can always beat up a strong foe... Korea I feel is there to at least try and beat you at a science victory (but still fails). To be that Civ on the other side of the map that takes all the GS and outstrips you in science at T100

 

[Archon_Wing]

Except that rainforest tiles in the early game are the best. You're surrounded by 4-6 resource tiles. Bananas, spices, Oral Tradition, culture, food, production, happiness!

Problem is you can chop them for instant production, and that is at odds with their mechanic.

You have to sacrifice a load of production for science and culture. It's not impossible, but it's a very difficult puzzle.

This is not a civ for beginners, for sure.

 

[MarigoldRan]

You chop the forests ABOVE the rainforests and leave the rainforests alone.

 

[Archon_Wing]

But that's still production you're not using, and over time, rainforest tiles will become very mediocre.

 

[MarigoldRan]

The rainforest is just a bonus. Consider:: on the average start you don't even have the option of chopping rainforests.

Brazil has a huge production bonus in the early game from the rainforests and the guaranteed trees nearby. There's no reason to chop rainforests in early game.

The major downside with Brazil is that it's freaking impossible to get Craftsmen inspiration. And you'll need irrigation to really benefit from it.

 

[Sagax]

People keep forgetting Three Kingdoms and the buffed Hwoarang. When the entire kit is put into consideration, everything in Korea works towards science output. You don’t see Brazil’s AI topping tech leaderboard, but you surely see Korea’s AI do that every once in a while.

 

[Archon_Wing]

You don’t see Brazil’s AI topping tech leaderboard, but you surely see Korea’s AI do that every once in a while.

All that really suggests is that Korea has a really low skill floor. (Which it does) and easy to make an AI play. Sorta like Kongo.

The rainforest is just a bonus. Consider:: on the average start you don't even have the option of chopping rainforests.

Yea well, even in that case, we're still balancing around ignoring your civ ability and chopping anyways vs keeping them.

 

[Lord Lakely]

But that's still production you're not using, and over time, rainforest tiles will become very mediocre.

You chop them later, which also causes the chops themselves to give more food and production. But I get your point. I personally never had a problem keeping a few rainforest around as Brazil (you will never have enough pop to work all those city tiles anway), especially rainforest tiles with resources. (which is where I put my Campuses, so the adjacency bonus sticks around for a while)

As for OP; yes Brazil gets some amazing campuses and is a really competent science civ, but no way they're beating Korea who get *three individual* boosts to science output, in addition to getting Seowons at a discount, meaning they can get libraries up more easily as well. No civ can get up a campus and a library before, say, turn 30, nobody but Korea. Even if Amazon stacked with the intrinsic rainforest bonus, they'd still be behind Korea. I'd argue Australia beats Brazil in Campus quality as well, they can get good campus adjacency very easily (basically more science from mountain campuses because mountains also provide appeal), and unlike Brazil's it doesn't diminish with time.

 

[Guandao]

Hmm...Brazil is never the tech leader in my games.....