I'm sorry to hear that. Did you download MapStat?Lousy rotten domination limit
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
Brennan's Adventures in the Hall of Fame.
- Thread starter brennan
- Start date
brennan
Argumentative Brit
no 
I played three turns of my 100k game last night. All that Micromanaging is boring as hell.
I played three turns of my 100k game last night. All that Micromanaging is boring as hell.
I pefer to think of it as sadomachism (spelling?) but without the sexual connotations. Basically, it's almost like torture paging through hundreds of towns every turen changing this and that, checking to see if something else can be rushed or what not, but you are inflicting quite a bit of punishment whipping people, assuming you are pop rushing and have found your whip. The end result can be worth it if you like getting fast 100k finishes. If not, then it isn't worth it.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Not being able to use Feudalism as a government I am cash-rushing under a Republic.
The basic process I am using is to have quite a spread out initial layout, build Lib/Temple,Uni,Cath,Collosseum in each city then pop a settler and loads of workers to effectively move the city to a neighbouring site where I repeat the builds. My theory being that i'll get through all the builds faster this way.
I am on my fourth run through city names (for Babylon) at the moment and am also conquering some neighbouring territory as well. Building without the cash to rush is very slow on my outlying areas. I am hoping to beat my previous 100k game by 100+ turns however.
*sado-masochism
The basic process I am using is to have quite a spread out initial layout, build Lib/Temple,Uni,Cath,Collosseum in each city then pop a settler and loads of workers to effectively move the city to a neighbouring site where I repeat the builds. My theory being that i'll get through all the builds faster this way.
I am on my fourth run through city names (for Babylon) at the moment and am also conquering some neighbouring territory as well. Building without the cash to rush is very slow on my outlying areas. I am hoping to beat my previous 100k game by 100+ turns however.
*sado-masochism
Well, I think you took my meaning properly, which is what I wanted.
Then do it now! I really don't know how you manage to get such good games going without it. Add this tool and it will free you up to concentrate on the important things in the game.no
You're only 20 miles or so from me-just a short trip down the A24. Be warned that I can easily find other ways of convincing you. Do it now or else!
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Lots of practice.
Whereabouts are you? Worthing is my home town but i'm currently up in Kingston, London btw.You're only 20 miles or so from me-just a short trip down the A24. Be warned that I can easily find other ways of convincing you. Do it now or else!
Come to the OT meetup!
Ah, not quite so near then. I moved south of the river for the first time in my life last August. I'm in Horsham now.
Thanks for the invite. Furiey alerted me to that earlier, the last one was on my birthday so I gave it a miss. I was hoping to go skiing around that time so we'll see. I'm not active in OT but if I'm around I might see if I can be accepted as a late entrant.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
We all know how useful Granaries are when you are racing the AI for room up on Deity level: I know some of you like an early SGL to build the pyramids for you, but I don't have access to those guys, playing as I do on PTW.
However I have been playing around with the idea of aiming to hand-build the Pyramids as the first goal of my Civ and it's an idea that seems to have met with some success.
The two Civs i've tried this with are the Persians and Americans. Both of these start with Masonry, a typical build queue has been warrior/worker/Pyramids. The earliest build i've managed is 1910BC.
Then things go a bit crazy. The latest game (which is still in progress) I built the pyramids in 1830BC as the Persians, Persepolis at this point was size 10. I built 6 settlers in the next 17 turns, which left Persepolis as a size 4-6, 4 turn settler factory. My first city ring built a worker and barracks each, then they all became settler factories too (I found I didn't need to take full advantage of the barracks as I was isolated). Later cities have spammed warriors and workers. Lots of workers. In fact when I noticed that my (Industrious) Civ had almost 2 workers per city I switched to catapults.
My assets at key points were as follows:
1830AD:
1 city, 2 workers, 1 warrior, The Pyramids.
1000BC:
9 cities (+2 next turn), 2 settlers, 10 workers, 12 warriors, 2 barracks.
510BC:
23 cities, 5 settlers, 27 workers, 17 warriors, 6 barracks, 2 catapults.
10AD:
45 cities, 5 settlers, 52 workers, 16 warriors, 6 barracks, 24 catapults, 9 Immortals, 2 temples.
It's worth noting that i've de-activated all settler factories except Persepolis in favour of building more Immortals, so there has been a drop in the number of settlers.
I had a monopoly on Mathematics when I spotted the Indians in 650BC, which allowed me to contact the Aztecs and Cartaginians and gain the Wheel, Pottery, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code. I kept my maps for when more contacts were made.
In 230 BC I was contacted by Babylon, Korea, Japan and Spain. The only asset I had was my Map and some gold, which got me Mysticism, Philosophy, Horseback Riding and Code of Laws. Unfortunately I couldn't acquire Currency, which i'd have been able to sell on.
I also bought Polytheism later but that's been the extent of my trading. Pretty poor.
Here' how things look at 1000AD:
That land mass is all mine. Only two of the three cities you can see just to the North-West of me are on my patch. As you can see there's still a fair amount of room to expand into.
This is easily the best expansion phase i've had with the Pyramids-start, more due to the fact that i've got so much room than anything else. My stack of Immortals and Catapults is going to visit those cities up North soon...
Hang on, why am I building Temples?
Note the 80% lux rate. Half my towns have an entertainer as well. grr.
Three things have hampered my trade:
1) There is only 1 luxury on my Island, 7 tiles of Spices. All absolutely miles away - my city furthest to the West has finally got 1 source of Spice next to it, a road is swiftly forthcoming. (this has been a real pain.)
2) Contacts have been far slower than I normally see in a Deity game. Tech trading has been bad for me and i'm a long way behind everyone except Babylon. (In previous games i've found the Americans better for trading as they can monopolise Iron Working, but the lack of an early UU is a pain.)
3) Due to the above i've minimum researched three techs so far, being unable to let my cities grow (no luxes for happiness) to the point where I can get anything out of raising the science slider, i've not had Iron Working for very long - and when I did get it none of my 40+ cities had it linked already
- and i'd just bought Polytheism (if memory serves me correctly) so couldn't upgrade all my warriors at once.
I'm going to keep slogging with this one, partly because the expansion is so good but mainly because this is one of those peculiar games where you suddenly notice that all the AI are Medieval but no-one has Literacy yet. I'm minimum turn-researching Literacy now and soon will pick a city for a Great Library pre-Build.
45 Granaries. Yum. Comments please.
However I have been playing around with the idea of aiming to hand-build the Pyramids as the first goal of my Civ and it's an idea that seems to have met with some success.
The two Civs i've tried this with are the Persians and Americans. Both of these start with Masonry, a typical build queue has been warrior/worker/Pyramids. The earliest build i've managed is 1910BC.
Then things go a bit crazy. The latest game (which is still in progress) I built the pyramids in 1830BC as the Persians, Persepolis at this point was size 10. I built 6 settlers in the next 17 turns, which left Persepolis as a size 4-6, 4 turn settler factory. My first city ring built a worker and barracks each, then they all became settler factories too (I found I didn't need to take full advantage of the barracks as I was isolated). Later cities have spammed warriors and workers. Lots of workers. In fact when I noticed that my (Industrious) Civ had almost 2 workers per city I switched to catapults.
My assets at key points were as follows:
1830AD:
1 city, 2 workers, 1 warrior, The Pyramids.
1000BC:
9 cities (+2 next turn), 2 settlers, 10 workers, 12 warriors, 2 barracks.
510BC:
23 cities, 5 settlers, 27 workers, 17 warriors, 6 barracks, 2 catapults.
10AD:
45 cities, 5 settlers, 52 workers, 16 warriors, 6 barracks, 24 catapults, 9 Immortals, 2 temples.
It's worth noting that i've de-activated all settler factories except Persepolis in favour of building more Immortals, so there has been a drop in the number of settlers.
I had a monopoly on Mathematics when I spotted the Indians in 650BC, which allowed me to contact the Aztecs and Cartaginians and gain the Wheel, Pottery, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code. I kept my maps for when more contacts were made.
In 230 BC I was contacted by Babylon, Korea, Japan and Spain. The only asset I had was my Map and some gold, which got me Mysticism, Philosophy, Horseback Riding and Code of Laws. Unfortunately I couldn't acquire Currency, which i'd have been able to sell on.
I also bought Polytheism later but that's been the extent of my trading. Pretty poor.
Here' how things look at 1000AD:
Spoiler :
That land mass is all mine. Only two of the three cities you can see just to the North-West of me are on my patch. As you can see there's still a fair amount of room to expand into.
Spoiler :
This is easily the best expansion phase i've had with the Pyramids-start, more due to the fact that i've got so much room than anything else. My stack of Immortals and Catapults is going to visit those cities up North soon...
Hang on, why am I building Temples?
Spoiler :
Note the 80% lux rate. Half my towns have an entertainer as well. grr.Three things have hampered my trade:
1) There is only 1 luxury on my Island, 7 tiles of Spices. All absolutely miles away - my city furthest to the West has finally got 1 source of Spice next to it, a road is swiftly forthcoming. (this has been a real pain.)
2) Contacts have been far slower than I normally see in a Deity game. Tech trading has been bad for me and i'm a long way behind everyone except Babylon. (In previous games i've found the Americans better for trading as they can monopolise Iron Working, but the lack of an early UU is a pain.)
3) Due to the above i've minimum researched three techs so far, being unable to let my cities grow (no luxes for happiness) to the point where I can get anything out of raising the science slider, i've not had Iron Working for very long - and when I did get it none of my 40+ cities had it linked already
- and i'd just bought Polytheism (if memory serves me correctly) so couldn't upgrade all my warriors at once.I'm going to keep slogging with this one, partly because the expansion is so good but mainly because this is one of those peculiar games where you suddenly notice that all the AI are Medieval but no-one has Literacy yet. I'm minimum turn-researching Literacy now and soon will pick a city for a Great Library pre-Build.
45 Granaries. Yum. Comments please.
SpiffyKeen7744
Prince
brennan said:45 Granaries. Yum. Comments please.
Well, I can comment in general, but I would probably need more info to get a better idea where you are at right now.
The fact that you can expand is a good sign for any victory condition at this map size and difficulty. This is especially true since you hand built the pyramids. But as you noted, it also means that you are far from any other civilization. It would have been nice to have had a boat to search around while you built the pyramids, but this is PTW, so you would have had to wait for MM. Again, lots of workers is a good thing, not a bad thing.
A monopoly on Mathematics in 650BC indicates a slow pace for everyone. It seems that the AI civs did not have contacts early either, so you are doing fine. You said that you are a long way behind everyone, except Babylon. Are you in the Middle Ages yet? How far ahead are other civs? If it is just a few techs (Invention and Theology), then you are doing fine. What victory condition are you going for? The city and worker counts at 10AD are good for Diplo, Space, or 100k. All the catapults are good for a long-term strategy. However, I have found that cats are very poor for bombarding cities in PTW, and you will not be able to upgrade them until cannons since this is PTW. On the other hand, you could use the cats to weaken enemy stacks and fish for MGLs. If you are going for fast Conquest or Domination, you should have built more Immortals.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Contacts were all late, yes, but I had little to offer in the second round of contacts, my Map wasn't enough for their techs by and large. I'm currently down by several techs: Construction, Currency, Republic, Map Making, Monarchy. Most of the AI are Medieval and probably researching at a ferocious rate.
Someone discovered Literacy around 200AD, traded it around and the GL ws built in a wonder cascade a few turns later. I'm still minimum turns on Lit as I may be able to trade it with Babylon. The lux situation is absolutely killing me as I can't raise the science slider and I couldn't buy Map Making.
I'm about to boot three AIs off my continent, i'm going to see if I can get techs for peace. If I can't make headway soon i'm going to have to jack it in.
If I do carry on it's promising for a 100k, since I can just hold my land and build like crazy. 58 cities at the mo and space for maybe 20 more without even trying to ICS.
Someone discovered Literacy around 200AD, traded it around and the GL ws built in a wonder cascade a few turns later. I'm still minimum turns on Lit as I may be able to trade it with Babylon. The lux situation is absolutely killing me as I can't raise the science slider and I couldn't buy Map Making.
I'm about to boot three AIs off my continent, i'm going to see if I can get techs for peace. If I can't make headway soon i'm going to have to jack it in.
If I do carry on it's promising for a 100k, since I can just hold my land and build like crazy. 58 cities at the mo and space for maybe 20 more without even trying to ICS.
SpiffyKeen7744
Prince
Well, than my initial observations are these:
You are going to get a free tech entering the Middle Ages. You would probably be able to trade that for quite a bit of stuff with the other civs except the tech leaders. Trading is always the way to a good finish. However, you are going to need gold and gpt for that. Also, you need to keep a good reputation. You built too many catapults, when you should have been building regular troops. If you are still in despotism, then you can use military police. I almost always keep 2 warriors/swords per large city around for military police until I switch to Republic, even if that means a smaller force on the front lines.
Since you have tons of cats, I would probably suggest that you not knock the other civs off your island. Instead, I would recommend that you get them to declare on you, and fish for MGLs. You will get war happiness to help with your luxury problem. Also, I would disconnect your iron for a while, and build warriors as military police. Later you can upgrade them to Immortals again. I would secure the remaining land that is free on your island, but give other civs some space in the NW. That way they can land more troops for you to slaughter. Also, try to settle towns where their troops are going to walk over your borders (have a line of your territory with empty space behind it, so they have to cross it). That way you can give boot orders, and they might declare. On Deity, the AI should land a good number of troops, but not enough to be a threat. The AI is really bad at attacking islands. If the other civs are in republic, you can wait them out in despotism, and then probably get techs for peace.
The things you should check are:
1. Do you have contacts with all other civs?
2. How are you doing with unit support? How many more troops can you get without paying?
3. Which civs are the tech leaders?
4. How much will it cost to get an embassy for each civ?
Once you are not fighting the happiness battle, you can select who you are getting war happiness from, and who you will be trading with. If you are hoping to expand off your island, you can set up a hill city with lots of troops on another island. That should get you MGLs and slowly chip away at their troop count.
You are going to get a free tech entering the Middle Ages. You would probably be able to trade that for quite a bit of stuff with the other civs except the tech leaders. Trading is always the way to a good finish. However, you are going to need gold and gpt for that. Also, you need to keep a good reputation. You built too many catapults, when you should have been building regular troops. If you are still in despotism, then you can use military police. I almost always keep 2 warriors/swords per large city around for military police until I switch to Republic, even if that means a smaller force on the front lines.
Since you have tons of cats, I would probably suggest that you not knock the other civs off your island. Instead, I would recommend that you get them to declare on you, and fish for MGLs. You will get war happiness to help with your luxury problem. Also, I would disconnect your iron for a while, and build warriors as military police. Later you can upgrade them to Immortals again. I would secure the remaining land that is free on your island, but give other civs some space in the NW. That way they can land more troops for you to slaughter. Also, try to settle towns where their troops are going to walk over your borders (have a line of your territory with empty space behind it, so they have to cross it). That way you can give boot orders, and they might declare. On Deity, the AI should land a good number of troops, but not enough to be a threat. The AI is really bad at attacking islands. If the other civs are in republic, you can wait them out in despotism, and then probably get techs for peace.
The things you should check are:
1. Do you have contacts with all other civs?
2. How are you doing with unit support? How many more troops can you get without paying?
3. Which civs are the tech leaders?
4. How much will it cost to get an embassy for each civ?
Once you are not fighting the happiness battle, you can select who you are getting war happiness from, and who you will be trading with. If you are hoping to expand off your island, you can set up a hill city with lots of troops on another island. That should get you MGLs and slowly chip away at their troop count.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
I've just submitted my Histographic game (Tiny, Regent). It was a case of third time lucky - my first attempt fell foul of the domination limit, and my second I forgot the risk of cultural victory... which occurred with about 20 turns left, adding insult to injury.
That second game was pretty sloppy though, i'd been fairly casual about expanding and was only going to score around 2700-2800 points, so my next game I decided would be more aggressive in terms of getting to the limits.
I seemed to get a pretty big Pangaea (the second game was Archipelago and seemed pretty short on grassland) and rapidly expanded out to where I thought the limit must be, undertaking a single war with the Koreans for lebensraum. My city placement was initially RCP but fairly loose as game #1 I tried to rush my pop up by buiding more densely packed cities but found my corruption too high. The Korean war netted me a leader, who rushed a Forbidden Palace.
Not wanting to screw this game up I downloaded Mapstat and the .NET for CivAssist 2 which I installed the next day. I was surprised to find myself nearly 150 tiles short of the Dom limit and so immediately declared war on the Aztecs whilst building more settlers to get up around the limit. I had already lost something like 50-100 turns at this level of expansion though, which has probably cost me a few hundred points overall.
I was within about 95% of the Dom limit by about the 300 turns to go mark, and was in the process of converting all my territory to railroads with irrigation. Another war with the Aztecs left me 5 tiles from the limit and with a Korean city in the jungle as my only rival.
The last 175 turns were research into Future techs and using worker stacks to clear pollution. Very dull.
Need to get round to finishing that 100k Warlord game next.
That second game was pretty sloppy though, i'd been fairly casual about expanding and was only going to score around 2700-2800 points, so my next game I decided would be more aggressive in terms of getting to the limits.
I seemed to get a pretty big Pangaea (the second game was Archipelago and seemed pretty short on grassland) and rapidly expanded out to where I thought the limit must be, undertaking a single war with the Koreans for lebensraum. My city placement was initially RCP but fairly loose as game #1 I tried to rush my pop up by buiding more densely packed cities but found my corruption too high. The Korean war netted me a leader, who rushed a Forbidden Palace.
Not wanting to screw this game up I downloaded Mapstat and the .NET for CivAssist 2 which I installed the next day. I was surprised to find myself nearly 150 tiles short of the Dom limit and so immediately declared war on the Aztecs whilst building more settlers to get up around the limit. I had already lost something like 50-100 turns at this level of expansion though, which has probably cost me a few hundred points overall.
I was within about 95% of the Dom limit by about the 300 turns to go mark, and was in the process of converting all my territory to railroads with irrigation. Another war with the Aztecs left me 5 tiles from the limit and with a Korean city in the jungle as my only rival.
The last 175 turns were research into Future techs and using worker stacks to clear pollution. Very dull.
Spoiler :
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
brennan
Argumentative Brit
I'm trying not to think about it. 
Well done, now just give us a Warlord that charts and we'll mail you a belt
Were you working on the current gauntlet? That'd work.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Nah, I already have a Huge Warlord 100k. Just need to find an evening to finish it off.
Good deal. I'll be waiting to reject accept it.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
I forced myself to finish off my Warlord game last night, which I have submitted.
I've been distracted for some time by my latest attempt at an epic game (huge/Deity) which looks like I might pull off my first win. I'm away this weekend so i'll probably post regarding that game next week some time.
I've been distracted for some time by my latest attempt at an epic game (huge/Deity) which looks like I might pull off my first win. I'm away this weekend so i'll probably post regarding that game next week some time.
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