Bring back Alpha Centauri goodies!

[Level]

I played Alpha Centauri again a while ago (Civ3 isn't working) and every time some of the “extra” stuff came up, like the tech quotes, interludes, unit work shop, the secret project moves, trophies, social engineering, and other events, I thought “oh yah, I forgot about that, I love this game!”
I know after a while of playing you would skip the things you had already seen, but they were some of the things that made it a great game instead of just a good game.

 

[sir_schwick]

I'm suprised they didn't include quotes with the Civ3 quotes. It would not be very difficult considering that the history behind those technologies is real.

 

[Mordack]

yes you are right about the airborne colony pod thing

I'm sure these advantages could be eliminated - and yes of course you will find more no matter how well they design the game

still think a unit workshop would be a nice addition even in a limited capacity

 

[sir_schwick]

It sounds like there are ways to make your military more distinct. This may include a better experinece system ala the 6 levels in SMAC. That made the Spartans able to field only 2/3 the troops of toher factions thanxs to their 1337ness. Currently Veteran and Elite status do not count for ****e.

 

[Idylwyld]

You know, the more I think about it, to hell with Civ IV, bring us SMAC II!! Most of the ideas in this forum, and almost all the best, have been about bringing SMAC systems into the orthodox Civ fold. To hell with the orthodox! Give me SMAC II: Back to Earth!

 

[Lockesdonkey]

It sounds like there are ways to make your military more distinct. This may include a better experinece system ala the 6 levels in SMAC. That made the Spartans able to field only 2/3 the troops of toher factions thanxs to their 1337ness. Currently Veteran and Elite status do not count for ****e.

You're right, but if anyone but the Gaians had the Command Nexus, Maritime Control Center, and Cyborg Factory, it would be almost the same. Exactly the same, with Power Values.

 

[smphang]

i miss the feature allowing your rival faction to surrender to you. your cities will still benefit from the trades bonus and you avoid having the trouble of wasting shields in far flung cities!

 

[rhialto]

In terms of diplomatic options (especially the planetary council), SMAC was ahead of its time. Ditto for immersive atmosphere bells and whistles. Ditto for the variety of tile improvements, which actually made you think about what to build and where. The disadvantages...

- An AI that didn't know how to do diplomacy or unit construction properly.
- The government system. It works for the basic game scenario, but I have serious doubts about its moddability.
- The unit workshop. There's only a small number of good units you'd want to make, wasting most of its flexibility. Plus it would allow unrealistic options, especially if applied to real world weaponry instead of SF blaster guns. Plus the graphically intensive nature of the system makes it virtually unmoddable.
- Crawlers. Horrendously unbalancing in the hands of good players.

 

[sir_schwick]

You're right, but if anyone but the Gaians had the Command Nexus, Maritime Control Center, and Cyborg Factory, it would be almost the same. Exactly the same, with Power Values.

So it only takes three Secret Projects and the opportunity cost of not having of Knowledge or Wealth to equal the advantage that other faction had since turn 1. Doesn't seem that useful to me.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Yah, but it's generally a good policy to avoid war until that point anyway. Particularly against the Spartans. Thank goodness that the Spartans only medium agression (at least, that's what the faction profile says they should be...

 

[rhialto]

I'd liek to see even spartans stand up against attack helicopters.

 

[mikehunt]

Oh God oh God, I can't believe I forgot this!

7) Bring back Wonder movies
-> Those Atari boys who said wonder movies are disruptive to the flow of the game, oh well, you're dead WRONG. I and my friends here believe that Wonder movies are one of the greatest aspects of the game. The pride, the satisfaction of completing a wonder (especially in higher difficulties), nothing beats that feeling of being rewarded with a short clip for all that hard work. Even after playing Civ2 and AC for hundreds of times, I still enjoy the Wonder movies. Being em back!

and the advisors
although after a while I turned them off in Civ2, they were still cool
"Here's you here's a clue. Get a clue"
I think that was the economic advisor in the modern age

 

[warpstorm]

Well I was kinda disappointed when I played Civ3 for the first time, because before that I was totally hooked on Alpha Centauri (AC) with Alien Crossfire expansion. Then I realised that Civ3 was developed by Atari, while AC was by Firaxis... dammit I wanted to blame someone so badly.

Anyhow, since Civ4 is being done by Firaxis again, I DO really hope they bring these back. There's more, but I can't remember them right now... perhaps you guys out there can help out?

Sorry, Selphie, Civ3 was done by the same guys at Firaxis that are doing Civ4. The guys who used to be at Firaxis that did SMAC left years ago.

Here's mine:

1) Confirm odds before attack!
-> this is WAY too important to ignore; makes life much easier for newbies (due to all combat bonuses/penalties showed), saves time because you don't need to do mental calculations

Sure, why not. But you should do the calculations anyways during your strategic planning.

2) Manage units even if no moves left
-> this is one thing I really hate in Civ3. Especially in late game, when you want to, say, fortify a unit or make it immediately move-to-X after a battle, you can't do it! You will have to wait until next turn, and then probably you have forgotten about it. This problem didn't exist in AC.

Different strokes, I never noticed this as a probllem.

3) More special unit commands
-> eg: automate worker to build ONLY roads. to automate ONLY this town. to ONLY clean pollution, to build road from here to X (reactivate once all done).
-> eg 2: auto unit to patrol between 2 points. allow units to have defending priority, meaning they defend first if attacked (I HATE it when one of my healthy high-att-low-def unit gets killed instead of my damaged high-def unit.)

Wow, most of these are in Civ3 already

4) Improved specialists after discovering modern techs
-> who can forget those Empath gals that give you two shield, two science and 3 happy-faces? (hmmm, correct me if I am wrong with the numbers)

5) Bring back bribery
-> it's not overpowered because bribing is really expensive. but it does add more strategy to the game. reward players for hoarding cash.

Too easy, IMHO. The AI would have to always double stack to prevent it. Of course an AI that always double stacks would be trivial to implement thereby making this impossible.

6) AC-style "governments" ?
-> this might be too much though, perhaps for Civ5 hehe
What this means is that you gain bonuses/disadvantages based on a scale system like in AC. So you get to choose a ruling government type (monarchy, republic, communism, etc), economic system (market based, gov-regulated, wanton development, tree-huggies), social system (welfare, survival-of-fittest), communal aspects (conservatism, fundamentalism, liberalism), societal goals (nation pride, love-spreader, eudaemonism), etc. All the different bonuses would then stack up. Those of you who played AC before would understand what I'm talking about.

To be honest, this is the only thing you mentioned that I really like. LIke I said different strokes.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

1) Confirm odds before attack!
-> this is WAY too important to ignore; makes life much easier for newbies (due to all combat bonuses/penalties showed), saves time because you don't need to do mental calculations

Sure, why not. But you should do the calculations anyways during your strategic planning.

Some of us don't have calculators or are just too friggin lazy.

Another SMAC thing I'd like to see back: Partial hurry! I admit that there is an exploit, but it's pretty useless unless you used it on an SP, which will be impossible in Civ4, so I'd like to see it back!

 

[Selphie]

2. I would agree this would be a nice feature for units to do on the NEXT turn. HOwever, the way civ works, a unit can only do those sort of things when it has the movement to do that. If not, it cheapens the other actions, such as fortication.

2. Sounds good, but they did change what movement meant in Civ3.

Any problem regarding that can be dealt with with flags. Say at the end of each turn; if Unit23_MovementLeft =/= 0 then Unit23_Fortified_Flag = 1. That way a unit is counted as truly fortified if and only if they had movement points left when you hit the F button. Otherwise it would take them another turn to get the Fortified_Flag checked (for the fortification bonus).

Sorry, Selphie, Civ3 was done by the same guys at Firaxis that are doing Civ4. The guys who used to be at Firaxis that did SMAC left years ago.

Okay, thanks for telling me

Sure, why not. But you should do the calculations anyways during your strategic planning.

I disagree. Like Lockesdonkey, I don't think it's fun trying to calculate the chance of my 3-hp-left elite spearman defeating a veteran Tank fortified in a Fort at a desert square. Is it 1 in 100, or 1 in 1000? Using a calculator is no solution, especially in late game on large maps when you already have to fight tens of battles each turn, and it already takes you 10 minutes per turn without fidgeting with a calculator.

Different strokes, I never noticed this as a probllem.

This is a problem for me. And for many other players who don't have a notepad ready scribbling down what to do next turn just in case he/she doesn't forget. It's a pain when each turn takes 10 minutes, and you get annoyed/frustrated when you remember later that you forgot to do it.

Wow, most of these are in Civ3 already

My apologies.

Too easy, IMHO. The AI would have to always double stack to prevent it. Of course an AI that always double stacks would be trivial to implement thereby making this impossible.

In my games, the AI almost always doublestack anyway. Don't see the problem. Make bribery exponentially expensive if you want; bribery makes the game more interesting. Make it so that if you want to bribe someone, you MUST either bribe ALL the units in the square, or none at all.

Example of formula: Bribery = Total cost of all units in square* 10 * (Number of Units)^2 / 2
So if there's one Spearman costing 10 shields, it would cost 50 Gold to bribe it. If there's 2 Spearman, then 200 Gold. If there's 3 Spearmen, then 1350 Gold.
a) Also include bonuses depending on government types: eg if the country is nationalistic, then bribing becomes more expensive.
b) Make bribing cheaper on briber's homeground. This will again encourage players to stack up instead of spreading their troops around.
c) Bribing only possible on hostile units, of course. Otherwise, it is considered an act of war. You STOLE my units! Time to die!!

 

[Selphie]

More ideas:

8) Add Quotes when tech is researched
Idea by Sir Schwick
-> The quotes make very pleasant reading in SMAC. I'm pretty sure most players enjoyed reading them. A little more work for our developers, but it'll be worth it


9) Give Trade Bonuses when at Peace/Allied with other nations.
Idea by Guagle
-> Cities get "Energies" (Trades) in SMAC, depending on relations with neighbouring foreign cities. This encourages building amorable friendship with other civs. Conquerors will lose a lot from this trade bonuses.

Extra suggestions:
a) Trade is calculated from a scale; it starts at zero, and increases each turn. The longer trade has been going on between foreign cities, the more trade is generated. When you war a Civ, the trade scale resets to zero, and increase again only after peace is achieved (or a number of turns after the peace, to impersonate "Cold Shoulder" attitude ). Makes you want to keep civs around... even those you don't like
b) Continuing from point a), each Civ you first meet has some initial Trade bonus. This discourages people from early warring and landgrabbing, who normally would almost always control the game from that point onwards.


10) Civs close to destruction can Swear Oath of Fealty
-> At least in SMAC I had considered multiple times of letting a Civ live after leaving them with 1 or 2 cities. But here in Civ3, no one will do that - they always destroy the losing Civs. Why? Because there ain't any incentive to keep them around.

Those swearing Oath of Fealty must: always be allied with the "master" nation, always give aid when asked, NEVER do anything hostile to master nation (including trading maps or making alliances with other civs).
OoF is cancelled if attacked by master nation (obviously) or after 100 turns.

 

[Mordack]

10) Civs close to destruction can Swear Oath of Fealty
-> At least in SMAC I had considered multiple times of letting a Civ live after leaving them with 1 or 2 cities. But here in Civ3, no one will do that - they always destroy the losing Civs. Why? Because there ain't any incentive to keep them around.

Those swearing Oath of Fealty must: always be allied with the "master" nation, always give aid when asked, NEVER do anything hostile to master nation (including trading maps or making alliances with other civs).
OoF is cancelled if attacked by master nation (obviously) or after 100 turns.

Interesting...

this might help in acheiving a diplo victory - since I would assume the slave civ would always vote for you

on the other hand...

might make it too easy

 

[troytheface]

There is a certain temptation to look at old games and for nostalgia sake want elements of them in newer games....however, we can't go back - i say forget all that old stuff and let the makers of this game come up with some new ideas in new
areas- and those that want to whine about the past can dust off old games and get bored after about 2 weeks- Time to move on - not dwell on "they had this feature i really liked when i was a teenager and it would be cool if i could somehow recapture that time......." Let the next generation of gamers have their own model to look back on -without age trying to dictate what is
"good".

 

[Selphie]

Interesting...

this might help in acheiving a diplo victory - since I would assume the slave civ would always vote for you

on the other hand...

might make it too easy

Not a problem. Just tweak with the diplo-formulas. Eg: Make it a function of pop as well instead of 1 vote per Civ.
Oh, and to the best of my knowledge if you're playing with higher difficulties then most AI Civs will not vote for you anyway if they are anywhere below happy with you or if you are the leading Civ.

There is a certain temptation to look at old games and for nostalgia sake want elements of them in newer games....however, we can't go back - i say forget all that old stuff and let the makers of this game come up with some new ideas in new
areas- and those that want to whine about the past can dust off old games and get bored after about 2 weeks- Time to move on - not dwell on "they had this feature i really liked when i was a teenager and it would be cool if i could somehow recapture that time......." Let the next generation of gamers have their own model to look back on -without age trying to dictate what is
"good".

Erm, I disagree. We gotta keep in touch with our roots
Oh course this is purely a matter of taste, so debate on this is pointless.

 

[Guagle]

No it didn't. The cost stayed constant through the game for any give change. So while that 30 or so gold would hurt badly at the start, by the time you are making 300 gold a turn, changing government, even all 4 switches at once, was painless. To me, this was the single biggest flaw in the SMAC government system. I also have big doubts about the moddability of this (significantly, SMAC never had any mods worth mentioning) system or its applicability to non-futuristic government.

Actually the SMAC system was a bit more elaborate: changing one social engineering aspect cost a fixed amount of cash BUT changing several aspects at once led to a massive increase in cost.

Example : changing from 'green' to 'free market' costs 24 credits but if you also change from 'democracy' to 'police state' it would cost you 81 credits. (not sure about the exact numbers though).