Broadway is a joke!

[gettingfat]

If Mt Rushmere can be made a national wonder derived from facism, a World Soccer Cup or Olympic staying in one city to generate culture and/or happiness definitely makes sense, probably more.

 

[automator]

I often wonder if Civ fans are the most whiney of all game fans.

Are you disagreeing with the effect or the name of the wonder? Would you prefer one less "happiness trade" wonder? Or a different effect? Seems to be the name you're disputing. Are you also disturbed that the Persians can be Christian? Or that Washington can found Confucianism? Jesus. Rock 'n' Roll is heresy in part of the world, and "Bollywood" has a higher film output than Hollywood (in fact, I think India produces more films than the rest of the world combined). Are you angry that the leader faces aren't historically accurate?

 

[Kilroy]

Now who's myopic?

Are you insane? Soccer is, objectively speaking and keep in mind I'm also an American who isn't terribly interested in the sport, the greatest sport in the world. Large swaths of the global economy shut down during World Cup. The economy of the winner of the World Cup always experiences a dramatic boost afterwards. People across the globe who have nothing else in common can at least talk about soccer. The American disinterest in soccer is irrelevant from a sporting perspective (to Americans, at least), but from a diplomatic perspective it's huge.

I mean how can you look at the picture below and tell me soccer isn't the most important sport in history? (Germans and British playing soccer between the trenches on Christmas Day during World War 1).

The mist was slow to clear and suddenly my orderly threw himself into my dugout to say that both German and Scottish soldiers had come out of their trenches and were fraternising…exchanging cigarettes, schnapps and chocolate…Later a Scottish soldier appeared with a football which seemed to come from nowhere and a few minutes later a real football match got underway. The Scots marked their goalmouth with their strange caps and we did the same. It was far from easy to play on the frozen ground, but we continued, keeping rigorously to the rules, despite the fact that it only lasted an hour and that we had no referee…Us Germans really roared when a gust of wind revealed that the Scots wore nothing under their kilts… The game finished with a score of 3 goals to 2 in favour of Fritz against Tommy.

 

[apdavis828]

So you build Broadway and get 5 hit musicals. Will somebody please tell me, politely, what to do with them ? Similarly for the other 'hits', of course. My only encounter with these wonders has been that once I was offered one hit in exchange for one gold resource, a deal which I felt was not to my advantage.

Umm... that is to your advantage - that's what so great about those wonders. You get 5 hit whatevers only one of which can really benefit you (+1 happiness), so you trade the other 4 for whatever resources you lack plus it makes the trading parties like you more.

 

[thenooblet22]

Maybe the World Cup of soccer? I know it's virtually unknown in the USA, but it rocks the rest of the world...

Well, the Cup is important to 100+ countries, except 1. Broadway is important to 1 country, and ignored on 100+. As far as World Wonders are concerned, the World Cup beats Broadway hands down, anyday...

Really, when will this USA bashing stop? I can tolerate some jokes, but to openly start a thread just to insult USA is immature.

Good job on your sterotypes buddy!

 

[childstarc]

broadway (aka musical/straight theatre) should be viewed as a representation of THE entertainment industry prior to radio/television/movies. (which to some extent, it was)

the fact that "broadway" has little influence on culture in the 21st century is irrelevant.

 

[troytheface]

germany's road system more impressive? lol all that european stuff is so ...small.
of course the roads are thicker- they only have to build it like 2 miles before ur in switzerland.

what was the other suggestion..oh yeah , worlds cup. Soccer is for backward non progressive type of countries that have not the cash nor the experimental spirit to move on to more progressive sports like football or baseball. They play the same old game. No wonder they got left behind.

Someone should do a broadway play about it , a nice musical showing bumbling out dated soccer fans getting huffy. No wonder europeans have so many wars- they can't kick a ball around without having a fit.

 

[cleverhandle]

broadway (aka musical/straight theatre) should be viewed as a representation of THE entertainment industry prior to radio/television/movies. (which to some extent, it was)

the fact that "broadway" has little influence on culture in the 21st century is irrelevant.

Exactly. While I'm not particularly knowledgable about entertainment history, I do at least know that in the early 20th century, musicals were a lot more influential than they are today. I don't know how international that influence was, though...

My only encounter with these wonders has been that once I was offered one hit in exchange for one gold resource, a deal which I felt was not to my advantage.

Actually, that's a pretty good deal for you. Gold gets you +2 in cities with forges (which should be almost everywhere by the modern age), whereas Musicals only get you +1 unless you have expensive Broadcast Towers or the Eiffel Tower. I try to get gold, silver, and gems as soon as possible in my games because they're so easily multiplied.

 

[White Elk]

That impromptu WWI armistice on Christmas Day was an incredible event Kilroy. And a football match between the trenches of the opposing forces must have been quite the experiance.

I'm American and the World Cup is important to me. But even if it wasn't I'd still like to see the event make it into the game somehow. It has a huge impact on much of the world.

And I don't see any problem with Broadway being in the game. It has always been a world destination and receives millions of tourists each year. And in all seriousness it has played a role in international politics and big business. It has been visited by Kings, Queens and Presidents. And it has been, and still is, a premiere place to take visiting diplomats and prospective business clients.

 

[abj]

Too many American wonders. Periods.

If anything there should be more.

For example:
Disneyland- (obvious copyright problems)- +1 happiness in all cities
Panama Canal- +1 trade routes in all cities
Golden Gate Bridge (alternatively Brooklyn Bridge)- +1 trade routes in all cities
Ellis Island- +25% population growth rate in all cities
Hubble Telescope- +10% science in all cities

Heck you could even replace Mt. Rushmore with something still American like Alcatraz (as I don't think everyone would morally support the Gulag as the wonder that reduces war weariness- It may be technically the best representation, but I don't think people would want to "honor" the horrors it represents).

 

[Mad Hab]

Really, when will this USA bashing stop? I can tolerate some jokes, but to openly start a thread just to insult USA is immature.

I guess my english must be very bad. I am bashing BROADWAY as a World Wonder, not the USA. If I wanted to insult your country, I would have started a thread saying "USA is a Joke!" instead.

Having said that, I understand that most (not all) americans like seeing Broadway as a World Wonder. If I were French, I would probably (but not certainly) support the Eiffel Tower as a World Wonder as well.

But from a more neutral point of view (I live in a country that is only represented in Civ 4 because they decided to put the jungles in, so I am not for or against anybody), Broadway as a Wonder who is supposed to impress the WORLD is ridiculous. I went to Las Vegas once - that you can call impressive, by any standarts. But I fail to see the huge and lasting impact of Broadway that you are talking about...

Cheers,

Mad Hab

 

[gettingfat]

If anything there should be more.

For example:
Disneyland- (obvious copyright problems)- +1 happiness in all cities
Panama Canal- +1 trade routes in all cities
Golden Gate Bridge (alternatively Brooklyn Bridge)- +1 trade routes in all cities
Ellis Island- +25% population growth rate in all cities
Hubble Telescope- +10% science in all cities

Heck you could even replace Mt. Rushmore with something still American like Alcatraz (as I don't think everyone would morally support the Gulag as the wonder that reduces war weariness- It may be technically the best representation, but I don't think people would want to "honor" the horrors it represents).

I hope you're just kidding.

Disneyland - it's famous worldwide because of the cartoon movies. The movie industry is basically represented by HollyWood. In many Asian countries Japanese cartoons are way more popular.

Panama canal - then why not Suez Canal, which has a stronger historical significance.

Golden gate bridge - maybe

Ellis Island - this is very American specific. Half of the world population likely don't know what it is

Hubble telescope - without a way to fix it it probably won't last another decade.

Besides, so many US wonders allowed to be in the game were built in late 1800s to mid 1900s, a stretch of time that covers approximately 60-80 turns. And you think there should be more?

 

[Ranos]

germany's road system more impressive? lol all that european stuff is so ...small.
of course the roads are thicker- they only have to build it like 2 miles before ur in switzerland.

what was the other suggestion..oh yeah , worlds cup. Soccer is for backward non progressive type of countries that have not the cash nor the experimental spirit to move on to more progressive sports like football or baseball. They play the same old game. No wonder they got left behind.

Someone should do a broadway play about it , a nice musical showing bumbling out dated soccer fans getting huffy. No wonder europeans have so many wars- they can't kick a ball around without having a fit.

By that thinking then, it's amazing that the states that form the USA haven't gotten into little wars of their own because of all the "fits" over sports in the US. Riots when football teams win the Super Bowl. Fights in the middle of a basketball game. And lets not forget the sport that is all about fighting: Hockey.

People get passionate about sports all over the world. This results in rivalries and tensions between teams and their fans that can sometimes lead to riots, fights and various other forms of violence. Heck, we even have the whole Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding thing back before the '94 Olympics.

Back to the main topic of this post, Broadway may be an American name, but it represents the impact of major plays around the world. Maybe there are some better names for it, but plays were the first form of theatrical entertainment in the world. The Globe Theater represents a national entertainment wonder.

There are many other world monuments that could be added in as wonders, but then the game would be spent building all of the wonders and not actually building and expanding a civilization. The Olympics, the World Cup and the other international sport competitions could all be represented. The problem is that they aren't constant and ongoing events. Maybe there could be some way of representing them in the game. For the Olympics, a random city of size 10 or greater could be selected every four turns to be the host city. For that turn, commerce could be doubled and there could be a happiness effect that lasts for ten turns.

 

[abj]

Disneyland - it's famous worldwide because of the cartoon movies. The movie industry is basically represented by HollyWood. In many Asian countries Japanese cartoons are way more popular.

Asian cartoons are not represented by a single entity, nor can they really be. What better entity to represent in a game, that has garnered 500 million visitors in barely a half a century? There isn't a stronger cultural tie than Mickey Mouse, something that is clearly known throughout the world. To deny the cultural impact of Disneyland, is to ignore the entrance of American culture into the rest of the world.

Panama canal - then why not Suez Canal, which has a stronger historical significance.

As an engineering feat, the Suez pales in comparison. The Suez has no locks, and is smaller width wise. The historical signficance is dead even, one open the Western coast of the Americas to quick seaborne trade, while the other garnered quicker access to Indian Ocean routes. A push nevertheless, making the engineering feat all the much greater in the Panama. Not to mention with the growth of the States, the trade, as represented as the benefit I would describe, has been moreso affected by the Panama, while the Suez has staggnated due to the more limit trade in the area.

Ellis Island - this is very American specific. Half of the world population likely don't know what it is

By that logic, should we abandone the Angkor Wat or the Hagia Sophia? I'm more than certain "half the world population likely don't know what it is."

But what moment, what location, describes a massive influx of immigrants to a nation? That is one of the defining characteristics of one of the civilizations in the game. To suggest it doesn't belong because people may be ignorant to its impact, what then is the point to make a game grounded in historical significance?

Hubble telescope - without a way to fix it it probably won't last another decade.

And your point? Something is needed to model modern scientific advances. Why not include one of the most impactful projects in astronomy that has brought back so many lovely pictures and insights into the universe?

Besides, so many US wonders allowed to be in the game were built in late 1800s to mid 1900s, a stretch of time that covers approximately 60-80 turns. And you think there should be more?

Civ IV models ages, not "turns." In fact, if you want more turns, don't be afraid to play marathon. Those wonders all tie in nicely with technological advances of the late industrial/modern ages. That is exactly the time period of America's growth to obviously one of the top civilizations of the modern world.

What tells you the games needs less? Or are you going to resolve to the American-bashing that involves any thread that includes the words US or America?

 

[ThERat]

what was the other suggestion..oh yeah , worlds cup. Soccer is for backward non progressive type of countries that have not the cash nor the experimental spirit to move on to more progressive sports like football or baseball.

what a load of crap..so according to you almost the entire world is backwards and has no money, except of course your beloved country.
Hope you will wake up one day from your myopic dream about the US of A.

To agree with the original poster, indeed it's more like 150 countries versus 1 (maybe 2). Have you ever seen the passion and emotions that run high in any country if they win an important soccer game. And, I mean every country throughout the world (except the Northern part of America that is)

 

[civ=braincandy]

in the 20's and 30's broadway was the hollywood of today. Yes it is somewhat lame. too bad there isn t some sort of increase in culture for collasiums after you discover electricity like in previous civ games. olympics is a cool idea too.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

Too many American wonders. Periods.

Agreed. You can almost tell this game was made in America by the usa-centric wonders that are out there.

Make the louvre a cultural wonder instead.

 

[kernok]

just a little point to clarify some important thing about soccer:

soccer is only called "soccer" in USA
american is only called "football" in... USA!

let's0 call a cat a cat: football is "football" and not "soccer"!
football is a game with a ball that is played with feet
whereas american football is a game that is played with hands (90% of the time) and it is more an handball game in fact

 

[gettingfat]

To Abj:

Nobody ever denies the significance of American culture in modern age. The issue is whether it is an overkill by putting more than a dozen of great/national wonders in the game if your suggestions are adopted.

What I said 60-80 turns, it means a part of an age out of several ages presented in the game. How many wonders are there in the game. And do you consider other countries have no significant achievements in the modern time?

We are living in the modern age, so everything happened in this age looks big to us. Since USA is the dominant civ in this age, and you are living in the USA, everything big done by the USA looks even bigger in your eyes. The problem is, some centuries ago, something that looked very trendy and the biggest thing at that time may only be a footnote in the history book.

From a typical American's perspective, Fenway Park or Yankee Stadium may be their wonders. SuperBowl? Is that for rice or soup? Ellis Island? Before I immigrated into Canada, I'd likely respond WTF is that?

100 years later, I bet people will still be listening to the music made by Mozart or Beethoven, but very few people will know Mickey Mouse. Ok, if you wish make it a Great Artist, then. And once again, Disneyland's success is derived from the success of movie industry. In a sense it's essentially a more successful theme park compared to Universal Studio. No need to over-represent that.

And you simply can't compare the modern age wonders to those built earlier. Nowadays, the world is like one. Back in just a few centuries ago, it is unusual if a building is known by people in several countries. Now if something is not known by most people in the world for a decent stretch of time, you can't even call it a wonder candidate. Your comparison of Ellis Island to Hagia Sophia is not legitimate at all.

Besides, it's not like if there's a great building, you should make it as a great wonder. The number of wonders a civ assigned by the game designers clearly represents its impact in a certain age. In a sense they are playing a game of power. America excels in one age out of the long human race history and is already given a fairly big piece of pie. Remember the Great Wall, a long recognized wonder that took the lives of hundreds of thousands to build it is not even in the game, and Mt. Rushmere is. What do you want more?

Also bear in mind that in modern age, it's much easier to build something that looks great. So one got to pick the absolute best out of them. Something that everybody knows, and its influence will probably last. Sorry, I don't even think Broadway fits this criteria.

And I'm not a USA basher. (Although I'd gladly bash your president if this is a politic forum )

 

[warroom]

Look, a few stupid wonders are necessary to keep the AI focused on them while I build the UN an Man. Project. In fact, I vote for MORE stupid wonders; keep the AI really busy producing wonders while I build... uh... tanks and stuff.