BTS Beta 5

[unkle]

as long as your opponent is in emancipation it will occur always once it occurred once...

It does not require Emancipation, but looks similar... I had it in the BCs, but it was always on (in that game at least) which was not sustainable.

 

[ori]

It does not require Emancipation, but looks similar... I had it in the BCs, but it was always on (in that game at least) which was not sustainable.

The weird thing about the emancipation thing is that the trigger in the xml clearly requires emancipation but the trigger in the python code seems to override this (I still have to find that one though, I only know it exists ).

 

[unkle]

The weird thing about the emancipation thing is that the trigger in the xml clearly requires emancipation but the trigger in the python code seems to override this (I still have to find that one though, I only know it exists ).

Well, in all case, that begs for removing Random Events when you plan for Conquest

 

[unkle]

In fact the event, if depending on Emancipation, really make sens (historically at least) if it is either always on or off during a specific war ("viva la resistencia" or equivalents). It seemed in may game that not only was it not dependent on Emancipation, but also triggered in all wars I was doing, ie even after 10 turns of peace or versus different opponents. I shut the game 50 turns later: getting 2/3 axes/swords each time I razed a city was really to akward...

Is it the kind of event that can happen to you (when one of your towns is razed) ? Do you control the units ? Do you pay maintenance for them ?

 

[BLubmuz]

Thanks ori and all for the answers about the "partisans".
I can assure no one was running emancipation, it happens in the BC and early AD.
Just submitted a non-outstanding game, and it never happens with ER turned off. I noticed one more strange thing: why cannot i build Cuirassiers if i got GunP and i was plenty of knights?

Anyway it's a nightmare: 2 AI in my game has poor land, but both managed to rush for Liberalism (and one beaten me). I researched the Astronomy and the Guilds line after CS, they jumped and beelined for Liberalism.
They researched Paper before CS (both was trying to found Chrisyanity) and after Feudalism (with Ragnar around better have LBs) they went straight... dammit.
Another thing i noticed was that if the AI doesn't see an actuat threat for its workers, it left them to their jobs.
And a more strange thing was that 2 more AIs, despite owming good land, was an age behing in tech.
For one of them the reason was prolly the overexpansion, but i can't see a logical explanation for the other one.
All 4 was same religion, good relations between them, but a complete different pace.

And next time, please don't put mandatory HC as an opponent, it's enough a "no HC" for the player.
Dammit, he built some 8 key wonders (oracle included) in my game.

True, i had to sustain a massive army and a big empire (IMO the only way to build such army), but my land was rich, well improved and i has the income from the conquests.

Back to the partisans, i've seen the units well managed by the AI: don't worry, they know how to use them.

 

[unkle]

I agree with Blubmuz that the game is indeed tougher than I expected. AI seems better at warring than in my old Civ4 days (plus conquest was never, on standard map, my favorite...).
So currently nothing to submit, but I do not dispair I should make it (RL might jump in though, these games are loooong).

I like killing HC fairly early, if he is close Of course, good start + HC as a neighbour is too much to ask

 

[ori]

In fact the event, if depending on Emancipation, really make sens (historically at least) if it is either always on or off during a specific war ("viva la resistencia" or equivalents). It seemed in may game that not only was it not dependent on Emancipation, but also triggered in all wars I was doing, ie even after 10 turns of peace or versus different opponents. I shut the game 50 turns later: getting 2/3 axes/swords each time I razed a city was really to akward...

Is it the kind of event that can happen to you (when one of your towns is razed) ? Do you control the units ? Do you pay maintenance for them ?

Thanks ori and all for the answers about the "partisans".
I can assure no one was running emancipation, it happens in the BC and early AD.


Back to the partisans, i've seen the units well managed by the AI: don't worry, they know how to use them.

This event is peculiar and I am not sure if I would not call it a bug. Anyway just for your information: The Civ4EventTriggerInfos.xml clearly says that Emancipation is needed, but I now found the trigger for this particular event and it does not care about this. Basically you could write anything into this trigger and it would fire, the only value that is even looked at is the iPercentGamesActive value - basically when you start a game you have a 35% chance that partisans is active. If that is the case they will always spawn if you raze a city where you opponent in war has most of the culture.
If that happens to you you get to chose between x spawned units on empty tiles around the razed city or x/2 spawned units in your capital and they are just normally drafted units. The AI sure knows how to use this and I suspect it mostly choses the units in its capital since otherwise they would end up as cannon fodder when spawning just adjacent to your main forces

 

[BLubmuz]

@ori
Then, if i understand correctly, it's a RE that is out of control and has some 1/3 chances to happen.
Definitely a bug, IMO since in the intentions of the programmers it was intended in later era.

The solution is simple: turn off RE.

One more thing:
I noticed cities with 100% of cultural defence, without Chiken Pizza (which usually ends with a "5"). Bombarding with 6 trebs, caused a mere -17%
2 series with 6 cannons some -80%. Definitely, you need some suicide SW, or your CR3 berserkers will fall like blades of grass.

IIRC after 6 bombardments with trebs, any city was around 10% in Warlords, we know vanilla is easier, due to the different bonus from walls.

Some hint about the no-cuirassiers thing?

 

[dutchfire]

Some hint about the no-cuirassiers thing?

I'm sure you checked, but did you have horses, horseback riding and Military Tradition?

 

[BLubmuz]

Hey Dutch, the Civilopedia says you need Gunpowder, not MT.

I'll verify, perhaps i was only tired.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm pretty sure you need Military Tradition too. It's the replacement of the Cavalry.

 

[BLubmuz]

Just verified, you're right.
I was duped by the icon changed (the old MT one is the one for MS).

Or prolly i just didn't noticed it.

 

[BLubmuz]

Perhaps i'm a bit flooding this thread, but i like to share my experience with this game, and see what others found.

the map:

I was expecting 2 land masses, 1 with 4-5 civs and the other with the ramaining, and some scattered small island.
not true:
- in the game i abadoned due to the "partisans bug" i was in a pangea.
- in the one i submitted i was in a huge continent with 5 AIs, and HC was isolated in a big island.
- in a game i'm abandoning (i can win it, but it will takes forever) i started in a small continent with another civ, and i gave it a try for an amazing starting position, but there're 3 land masses and a lot of islands.
- the other games i started and played some almost never looks as i initially expected.

Then, to be competitive, you will need not only a good start, but also a favourable map, in terms of land distribution.
And possibly raze the city with the Apotholic Palace, like i did in my submitted game.

the terrain:
often, probably due to the "regenerate map" some hills look like flat terrain.

AI research:
they follow completely different paths, this was already said, but sometime this is very strange.

 

[unkle]

I agree that much of my starts (none yet finished due to lack of warring experience for now, but I plan on making that history...) were Pangea-like starts, with all or all-1 civs on the same landmass. Which was a surprise.

 

[Peluin]

In efforts to achieve a fast time, pangaea-like maps are obviously preferred. I have a suspicion that if you set continent style to "massive" and islands to "tiny islands" and "separate", then you're more likely to get an amenable map.

Thing is though, the big-and-small script seems to compensate the start spots of the icky island civilizations. Maybe it was in my head, but it seemed like the isolated starts got 2 gold 2 corn river capitals, while those on the mainland got the lovely "one pig, rest forest" terrain.

I tried a bunch of games as Cyrus and had an outstandingly poor run of luck with finding horses. After awhile I got frustrated and switched to Julius. I finished in 700AD, but I don't feel too great about that time; I'm not great at conquest, and was playing in between homework problems. Also, the random number generator was evil. At one point I even lost back-to-back 99% fights! GAH!

 

[KMadCandy]

What I can confirm is, that if you demand tribute, you cannot attack immediately - you have to wait 10 turns. Standard tech-trade doesn't prevent you from attacking. What I assume is, that trading for resources triggers the 10 turn penalty too.

resource trades don't trigger it (unless they're demanded). neither do gifts that you give without being asked/demanded. that "you demand tribute" is both yous of course, and the peace treaty applies to both sides. ... if i demand something of monsterzuma and he gives in, he's not allowed to declare on me either for 10 turns either even tho he'd kind of has the right to in one perspective. so i get the great part of the deal (assuming delaying the war is my goal, which it is, since i'm me).

I wonder if you can gift an AI 10gp every 9 turns to prevent them from ever attacking you? I'm guessing not, that it's only demands, not gifts.

what you can do is try to request/demand a gift/tribute. if they agree, that's 10 turns of guaranteed peace with that leader. the peace treaties are just the same as those signed after war, and they show up as active deals so that you can tell how many turns are left.

i used this twice in my current (non-HoF) game. mehmed was building up a huge SoD near a city not on my main continent, so i was not ready to deal with an attack there. he was at pleased, so i was able to ask "can you spare this for a friend" rather than demand it, so there was no harm done if he said no. i asked for his world map, which i already had so he'd value it at 5g or so if it was a 2-sided trade. bingo, he was happy to help, and i was happy to have the grace period to get ready. on turn #9 i signed a DP with darius since he would serve as an excellent buffer if he closed his borders with mehmed, which of course he'd have to do when the DP kicked in. i waited until turn 9 to see if mehmed declared on darius instead in the meantime, i didn't want to have to actually defend anybody i just wanted defense. turn 11 or so he declared on me, but by then i could handle it. he's my vassal now .

i later did that again with Zara when he was at WHEOOHRN status. he was pleased so again i asked for the world map, 10 turns of peace treaty yay! during those 10 turns he came by and asked me to convert to his state religion. i have CR, so i agreed to do it, and switched back as soon as i was able to. that +modifier was enough to trigger something apparently, since about 3 turns after that he no longer had enough on his hands.

it actually feels rather underhanded to me, moreso than demanding their gold the turn before i declared pre-BtS. but hey, they were going to attack me. that's awfully mean, and extreme measures were called for !

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

In efforts to achieve a fast time, pangaea-like maps are obviously preferred. I have a suspicion that if you set continent style to "massive" and islands to "tiny islands" and "separate", then you're more likely to get an amenable map.

Thanks, I used these settings and had 5 AI with me on the mainland and 1 AI on a far off island group reachable by galleys.

I was very pleased with my game and wound it up around 50BC. BUT I forgot HC as an opponent! -doh.

Oh well, the fast conquests are fun so I don't mind going again. Just hope I can finish around or before 50BC in future attempts...

 

[Shudd]

Which civ were you playing? I'm trying to get time to have a good go at this gauntlet and am thinking Vikings for obvious reasons, although query whether this would get very early victory. I like the idea of Cyrus though.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I like the idea of Cyrus though.

I used Cyrus.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

Seems ever1 already switched to 3.13 - Only 4 submissions yet. I just completed once with Augustus at 16xx. Praets are slow on this big area -
and upkeep kills ...