WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
I tried playing against 10 civs, but that did not work out. I thought it would be easier to get more civs with your religion. It was, but it also means more civs abstaining on the diplo win vote. 
BTS Beta 8
- Thread starter Denniz
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HolyHandGrenade
Holy Pin
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FYI: To get a religion diplomatic win each civ must have at least one city with the religion the apostolic palace was build under. So with more than the minimum civs you have to spread this religion to more cities.I tried playing against 10 civs, but that did not work out. I thought it would be easier to get more civs with your religion. It was, but it also means more civs abstaining on the diplo win vote.
WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
Spreading them was not the problem, getting them to votes for me was.
But now I have a question. You say the religion the AP was built under. Say all my cities have both religion A and B. Everyone else has religion A and B as well, it's just that people voting for me have more of religion B than A. Does that mean I build it under religion A and later switch to religion B hoping for the votes, that it won't work? The votes will always be tallied according to religion A if that is the religion that I build it under.
I didn't think it worked that way.
But now I have a question. You say the religion the AP was built under. Say all my cities have both religion A and B. Everyone else has religion A and B as well, it's just that people voting for me have more of religion B than A. Does that mean I build it under religion A and later switch to religion B hoping for the votes, that it won't work? The votes will always be tallied according to religion A if that is the religion that I build it under.
I didn't think it worked that way.
HolyHandGrenade
Holy Pin
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You got it
Directly after building AP and getting your "pope" vote switch to "No Religion" and wait for the diplomatic victory vote and in the same turn switch again to the AP-religion. As I understand it correctly your votes (number of AP-religion members in all your cities) gets doubled (please correct me if I am wrong here) if you own AP and have the right religion. To be more precise about spreading religions, the easiest is to infect all other civs 1st with a bad religion and 1 turn later (when they adopted the bad religion) infect their smalles city with the AP-religion. This gives the other civ a state religion and some followers for you. But be aware that if your total number of followers of the AP-religion is greater than the total number of AP-followers of all foreign civs, the vote will never come up I hope this is clear - otherwise ask again and I (or someone with deeper knowledge) will try to explain better.
You got it
I hope this is clear - otherwise ask again and I (or someone with deeper knowledge) will try to explain better.
Almost right
AP votes are doubled if you have the AP religion as your state religion - you do not need to own the AP for this ...
Also the voting threshold is 75% so you should have something like 60 to 70% of votes yourself without having the AP religion as your state religion and then switch on the vote turn and win
Almost right
AP votes are doubled if you have the AP religion as your state religion - you do not need to own the AP for this ...
Also the voting threshold is 80% so you should have something like 60 to 70% of votes yourself without having the AP religion as your state religion and then switch on the vote turn and win
Hopefully someone has done a detailed writeup on this, as I'm totally lost.
AP votes summary:
The AP is locked to the state religion of the one who builds it at the time the build is completed. This is the AP religion.
For all voting purposes the votes are determined as follows:
every city that has the AP religion present gives votes equal to the number of pop points (a size 5 city gives 5 votes). These votes are doubled IF your state religion is the same as the AP religion.
For victory you need 75% of the votes. Now IF you have sufficient votes yourself you cannot propose the victory vote.
some examples:
1) you have 10 pop 5 cities with the AP religion and this religion is your state religion this means you get 5*10*2 votes = 100 votes
now if your opponents together have 30 votes, you have 100/130 = 77% which would mean you can vote yourself to victory, but this path is blocked.
2) you have 10 pop 4 cities with the AP religion and this religion is your state religion, each of those cities is set to avoid growth but can grow next turn, this means you get 4*10*2 votes = 80 votes
now if your opponents together have 30 votes, you have 80/110 = 73% which would mean you cannot vote yourself to victory, but can propose the victory vote. Since the check on proposing the vote is made the turn before the votes are counted you can then set all those cities to grow and when votes are counted you have the numbers listed in 1)
3) you have 10 pop 5 cities with the AP religion and this religion is NOT your state religion this means you get 5*10 votes = 50 votes
now if your opponents together have 30 votes, you have 50/80 = 63% which would mean you cannot vote yourself to victory, but can propose the victory vote. Since the check on proposing the vote is made the turn before the votes are counted you can then switch your state religion to the AP religion and when votes are counted you have the numbers listed in 1)
Clearer?
HolyHandGrenade
Holy Pin
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Thanks Ori - as I said - someone with deeper knowledge should explain why it's best to switch to the AP-religion in the same turn the vote comes up
WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
Thanks Ori, I was confused and thought the owner of the AP could switch it's religions willy nilly.
HHG, I love Bad Religion! Great group and even better idea about sending it to the other civs. So no real reason to try and convert anyone is there? I have been playing as a religion whore trying to get everyone to be a Hindu.
I will be trying this one again!
HHG, I love Bad Religion! Great group and even better idea about sending it to the other civs. So no real reason to try and convert anyone is there? I have been playing as a religion whore trying to get everyone to be a Hindu.
I will be trying this one again!
Actually this is also correct but in a different way
In order to be eligible for Pope and thus to be able to propose the victory vote you need to be a full member of the AP.
There are two ways to be a full member:
1) you have the AP religion as your state religion
2) you own the AP regardless of your state religion
WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
This means, that you need at least one other civ to have the AP's religion, otherwise, no vote? Ideally, someone who loves you , but will not be second in size or population and potentially steal votes from you, If they are, they should be friendly to you, but others civs should not like them over you.
actually you do not need more than one full member - I have had dozens of votes where the poor AI had only the choice between me and a guy called Abstain
So the answer is no
You can have games where no other one adopts the AP religion and the owner switches away from it and it still will have votes but only the AP owner can be a candidate...
WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
And you can still win this way? 
Hmmm, very interesting stuff. 
Hmmm, very interesting stuff.
HolyHandGrenade
Holy Pin
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Yes you can win and it is preferable to be the only full member and with only one reli you still can toggle between "no religion" and your specific religion to raise your number of votes.And you can still win this way?
WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
Oh geez....now wonder my games were going into the 1600s....I was trying to make everyone a full member. D'oh! Okay, I really gotta try this one again!
Thlypsis
Chieftain
With this strategy, is it difficult to have enough population to get the 75% required vote for victory? I'm still note sure who would be voting. What happens in your exclusive AP religion spreads to a neighbor by itself?
Welcome to Civfanatics and the HOF you need to spread the AP religion to atleast one city of each of the AIs for the victory vote to become possible. On Warlord difficulty you will outgrow the AI very easily so you should not have to worry about having too few votes, rather too many is the problem...
HolyHandGrenade
Holy Pin
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This is true on most of the other maps - not always on this one with tiny islands and high sea. I yesterday had a very promising game where the 1st diplomatic vote appears around 400AD but my cluster of islands was too small and I only had space for 6 cities which are not enough to get the victory. This may be enough if you are lucky and no other civ adopts the AP-religion and you are the only member, but at this early date there are some civs with only 1 city, so you have to spread the AP-religion to the capital, and my experience shows that even if they have another civ, they will switch to the AP-religion as soon as a diplomatic-vote comes in.
you need to spread the AP religion to atleast one city of each of the AIs for the victory vote to become possible. On Warlord difficulty you will outgrow the AI very easily so you should not have to worry about having too few votes, rather too many is the problem...
Python might need the variables to be killed before reloading the rules file will work. Don't know for sure, but it's a plausible theory. PM the location of the source if you want another set of eyes to check it.
BTW I've always had this problem, must shutdown civ and restart to get a rules file change to take. Drove me batty for a couple of days straight before I figured it out, since it's just about the only program I've ever seen with that behavior. And my system is incredibly slow, making starting over painful enough that it didn't occur to me right away.
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