BTS - HOF Rules - Map Scripts Discussion

[Denniz]

Here is what we are thinking for the new map scripts:

Beta Legal:

• Boreal-all wraps
• Rainforest-all wraps

Beta Illegal:

• Arboria
• Big & Small
• Donut
• Global Highlands
• Hemispheres
• Medium and Small

 

[Thrallia]

I think big & small and medium & small should probably be legal...hemispheres possibly too, but the first two are the only ones I've played so far.

What's the criteria for including/excluding map scripts?

 

[superslug]

What's the criteria for including/excluding map scripts?

Basically if I see something I consider too advantageous or easily coerced by an intelligent human being.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hemispheres pretty much like Continents? I think it should be allowed. In addition, I would also argue for Big/Medium and Small's inclusion on the basis that the advantage given to the human (knowledge of the general layout) is the same as on Terra or Great Plains, which are already allowed.

I agree with the banning of Arboria.

What is Global Highlands like?

 

[Ozbenno]

What are the reasons for thinking Big & Small, Global Highlands, Hemispheres, Medium and Small should be illegal. To my mind they are just the same as continents, terra or highlands.

I can see why Donut and Arboria would be illegal though.

 

[sanabas]

Big & Small, Medium & Small, Hemispheres are the three I've played so far, all 3 seem to simply be more variable versions of a continents map. What do you see in them that is too advantageous/unbalancing, 'slug?

 

[superslug]

The Continents precedent is a strong point, I'll admit that.

This list is by no means permanent, just a starting point. I err on the side of being very conservative to start with, because future reanalysis is a given, and I'd rather be in a position where I can loosen rules at that time. Tightening them (because I allowed a map type that proved bad) would mean excluding games.

So, I'll keep an eye on these as time progresses.

 

[Gyathaar]

The Continents precedent is a strong point, I'll admit that.

This list is by no means permanent, just a starting point. I err on the side of being very conservative to start with, because future reanalysis is a given, and I'd rather be in a position where I can loosen rules at that time. Tightening them (because I allowed a map type that proved bad) would mean excluding games.

So, I'll keep an eye on these as time progresses.

But how will you know if the banned maps are good or bad, since no one will be playing and submitting games with them?

 

[superslug]

But how will you know if the banned maps are good or bad, since no one will be playing and submitting games with them?

I hear occasional rumors of Civ games being played outside of the Hall of Fame. I certainly don't condone such activity, but it can be at times a needed evil.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well continents is unbalanced for non-BTS play isn't it? You can only compete for domination if you have a continent big enough for that. And you don't know whether it will be big enough until a good way through the game.

What is donut (apart from a misspelling of doughnut , Americans, tsk). Is Arboria the one with forests everywhere = chop a huge army presumably.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Yes Arboria is the one with forest grassland EVERYWHERE. It would be pretty unbalanced for any type of game (conquest/domination because of the chops and space/diplo/cultural games because of all the grassland).

 

[Thrallia]

Well continents is unbalanced for non-BTS play isn't it? You can only compete for domination if you have a continent big enough for that. And you don't know whether it will be big enough until a good way through the game.

What is donut (apart from a misspelling of doughnut , Americans, tsk). Is Arboria the one with forests everywhere = chop a huge army presumably.

*ahem* I'm American and I spell it doughnut ...the other way looks weird to me.

As for continents, I like it being allowed because its more like an actual game...you don't have to leave your continent for anything other than domination/conquest, and it also adds more of a balancing element to those games. You can't just rush the AI, you have to also be able to support a decent enough economy to reach astro quickly.

 

[Infantry#14]

can some1 kindly post a screensot so we can see all the new maps?

 

[sanabas]

Well continents is unbalanced for non-BTS play isn't it? You can only compete for domination if you have a continent big enough for that. And you don't know whether it will be big enough until a good way through the game.

If continents makes it HARDER to win via domination, then I don't see how it is unbalancing. The only way I can think of that a continents map would be unbalancing is because it allows you to take over your continent, and then power on from there without too much worrying about defense. Or it allows you to win via domination without meeting a large chunk of the world. I might be wrong, but the continent size you can get from the continents map covers both extremely big continents (if you only have 2) to fairly small continents (if you pick 6). The single landmass you get from the 3 new BTS continent-like scripts all fall within the range of what you get from the legal continents script.

So any balance issues caused by being able to dominate just one landmass rather than the whole world are already there in continents. I'm not able to think of any new ways to exploit things with the new maps that you couldn't already do. Maybe if you set the island preferences up right you can be fairly sure a workboat explorer will meet almost everyone, or even circumnavigate, giving you an advantage either way. Except that is also true for the legal archipelago map type. Also, the AI now uses workboat explorers, which is great to see.

From my perspective, the 3 new types all produce maps that fall somewhere between archipelago and continents, but have more variation. To me, that makes them more interesting to play. Also, the added variation makes them harder to exploit/gain advantage, as you're less likely to get the exact map parameters you want for your exploiting.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I mean you can't compete for best domination date on continents unless you are lucky and on a continent big enough for it. Otherwise you have to go astronomy etc.

 

[Thrallia]

you can't compete with the best domination dates on archipelago or inland sea or terra either. Does that make them unbalancing?

To get the best domination date, you need to use pangea or possibly oasis(harder though cause there's a ton of land to cover). So should everything except for those two maps be excluded for that reason?

 

[azzaman333]

you can't compete with the best domination dates on archipelago or inland sea or terra either. Does that make them unbalancing?

To get the best domination date, you need to use pangea or possibly oasis(harder though cause there's a ton of land to cover). So should everything except for those two maps be excluded for that reason?

You might be able to on a Terra if you're lucky.

 

[ruff_hi]

Yes Arboria is the one with forest grassland EVERYWHERE. It would be pretty unbalanced for any type of game (conquest/domination because of the chops and space/diplo/cultural games because of all the grassland).

If Arboria is unbalanced because of all the grassland, then what about rainforest ... equally grassy but jungle instead of forest. Is the only difference the massive hammer boost you get from all of the chops? If that is the case, then Global_Highlands would be questionable too due to the high forest count.

 

[WastinTime]

I'm a little late to this discussion, but does anyone remember why the Islands map was banned way back in the original beta? Hemispheres can be configured to look exactly like Islands. We should either include Islands or ban Hemispheres.

 

[playshogi]

can some1 kindly post a screensot so we can see all the new maps?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246788