BTS Roleplaying Challenge: Stalin

[LlamaCat]

This is a fun scenario Cam, I'm enjoying my game immensely. Here's an update after about 200 turns:

Spoiler :

I built the Great Wall and Pyramids and running specialist economy, which is a good thing because I am running the research slider about 20% most of the game as I wiped out Churchill and am now warring with Roosevelt, who declared on me just as I was about to declare on him.

Gandhi is going crazy with wonders and has virtually no defense. This is a very tempting situation to rush him, especially as his capital is so close to Moscow. However, I popped a couple great spies and used one of them to spy bomb Gandhi, and I'm stealing just about every tech he researches that I have skipped. I figure it's a good idea to stay friendly with India and China so I can trade what I can with them since trading is limited elsewhere. So far this strategy is working perfectly and I am comfortably in the tech lead.

I've built the Taj and the wonder that gives 50% longer golden ages, and just two golden ages so far are really helping me dominate production. I anticipated emancipation anger coming later so I am trying to wipe out America and hopefully cripple De Gaulle and then see how well I can tech along the rest of the game and play defensively. I'm not sure if I should switch to cottage economy at some point...

But the key part of my game has been espionage, in true Soviet fashion. Friendly with India and China but spying on them, and war with the West for expansion.

 

[LlamaCat]

post deleted - glich, sorry!

 

[LlamaCat]

post deleted

 

[Florian]

Cam. Im ok to play without free speech, free market, emancipation and free religion but I'm disappointed that we're not allowed US; that means no rush-buying which kind of nerfs the Kremlin which is the quintessential Russian wonder.

Yeah... and actually, the Russian Communists did have Universal Suffrage. Women were allowed to vote right from the beginning. The kicker was that the Party got to decide who was going to run in the first place, and that there was only one party.

 

[madscientist]

Some comments on US in this game

1) Kremlin allows 2 extra spy specialists so it's not a complete wastedwonder if there is no US. Defeinitely not as powerful though.
2) US gives +1 hammer per town which fits in with Stalin's Russia being a high production country.
3) Spending Cash to finish a task is the problem. Mother Russia always had money problems, so buying a building rather than hard work doesn't seam right. On the other hand using the state treasury to improve the military seams right.

So a suggestion: Require the Kremlin to be built before someone can switch into US. Allow the player to only buy units, not buildings.

Fair??

 

[pigswill]

Cash rushing could of course represent the USSRs series of five year programs to kickstart various massive projects but no US before Kremlin is completed sounds reasonable.
Up to Cam ultimately.

 

[Cam_H]

Stalin leans back in his chair munching on blinis topped with Beluga.

"You should try this - it's really rather good."

Pigswill, madscientist, and Florian reach uneasily from their seats, and politely take a nibble.

"Good - no?"

"Hmmm ... 'yes' - you all tell me very interesting stories about what you think and what you say is "resonable". 'Yes' Mr. Pigswill, you sing a very pretty song ..."

​

"... but our Comrades, they are uplifted by the Soviet's existing planning. See, they admire our way of life ..."

​

"... 'no' ... what you propose smells of Perestroika! You have your Representation in the Communist Party already, what you suggest is an outrage - we will not behave like the corrupt Capitalist dogs."

Stalin unfortunately gets some caviar in his manly mo'.

"Our women are among the most proud in the world. They have jobs, they have access to health facilities equal to none. Literacy rates among our female Comrades have never been higher. Do not lecture me about 'rights'!"

"It would seem that you three could do with some 'education' - Siberia has been especially chosen to accommodate those who need to better understand the achievements of the Party."

The delegation is dismissed.

 

[pigswill]

This was obviously not a tea-party at the Kremlin.

 

[madscientist]

Thankyou Comrade Stalin!! This gives me a great opportunity to search the Siberian steppes for horses!!!

 

[Ozbenno]

Oooh, this looks like fun. I'll see if I can squeeze this in.

Power to the people comrades

 

[KMadCandy]

1) Kremlin allows 2 extra spy specialists so it's not a complete wastedwonder if there is no US. Defeinitely not as powerful though.

i've read that the kremlin applies to slavery too, takes less bodies to get the same amount of hammers, or you get more hammers from a body, whichever way the math goes. i think that it does, both buttons say "hurry [insert thingamadoodle here]" and so does the wonder description. but i don't do math while i play the game so i can't test it to be sure.

 

[Bast]

Wow this looks great. No religious civics will be so tough. I look forward to this.

 

[mice]

- Posted from Party recreation resort on the Black sea coast -

Illustious leader. I fully endorse the re-education in Siberia of the likes of Comrades Pigswill , Madscientist and Florian.

Hopefully after ten or fifteen years they will realize the variant conditions were,of course, correct.

PS. thanks for the Vodka.

 

[Cam_H]

Mice, - no problems on the vodka!

I have every intention of giving this one a go on the weekend myself (it's been hard to resist looking at the spoilers!).

I envisaged that by being so constrained in terms of relations with the westerners, and the Aggressive AI setting, that war would inevitably form a key part of the game's landscape pretty well thoughout. At the same time, the set-up seems on the face of it reasonably good for managing some 'triangle' diplomacy with the other two nations albeit without the benefit of the "we care for our brothers and sisters of the faith" pluses ... which could be difficult if India and China go head-to-head let alone focus their aggressions on Russia - a lot depends on the map.

Three 'industrious' rivals and no access to Organised Religion may make Wonder grabbing a tad more difficult than normal for Stalin - not sure if it will play out that way though. Quite a high percentage of the tribes start with Mining, so Bronze Working will probably be acquired by a few tribes early-on. India's the only tribe beginning with Mysticism; Gandhi will probably pick up a couple of Holy Cities. Aside from Bismark - we're the only tribe to begin with a Scout (Hunting), so hopefully some luck will come our way with the huts.

I see a lot of room for espionage here too if the player wishes, which could form a nice part of the roleplaying 'Cold War'-type experience.

 

[Ozbenno]

Spoiler :

Greeting comrades I am Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili. My friend call me Joe Stalin but you may call me Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili. Ha ha, is Russian joke, funny no?

Anyway, I am lead despot of the United Socialist States of Russia. My goal is
to launch a spaceship to the stars but look at what they have given me. Peasants and a peacenik. Looks like we'll settle in place and...

Josicums, aren't you going to introduce me to your new friends.

Not now Michaela, I'm busy explaining my Worker's Fatherland to these imperialists and how I will set up a utopia right here in place.

But you promised me a palace with a water view.

ixnay on the acepalay, we all know that class ideology dictates that we will share a hovel with the peasants, wink!

They can see you winking Joey.

Winking, not me. Its just a nervous tick.

But I really want that water view.

Who is General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union's Central Committee?

You are dear.

Right, settle in place.



Now as we all know, the most important features of a society are its economic classes and their relations to each other in the modes of production of each historical epoch. A class is defined by the relations of its members to the means of production. Without workers, we have no means of production so lets start the labour movement and produce a worker.

Looking at the terrain, we will farm all the plains and mine all the hills to feed our workers and produce our fine Soviet goods.

Darling, don't you think you should cottage by the rivers to have means of science.

Sounds awfully bourgeois to me Michaela. Riverside cottages indeed.

But the imperialists will devise means of production more advanced that ours without science.

Hmmm, you're right. Don't let the peasants in the fields know about these riverside cottages though. They will all want one.

Yes dear.

Well if we're going to get all sciency, why not research Agriculture so our workers can start farming the fertile earth of mother Russia. After that look for copper.



Greetings comrade, will you join our class struggle against the imperialists?



Aaah, a fascist!

I can't find the "Know, Churchill that the workers will rise against your tyranny in a proletarian revolution. The streets will run with the blood of English capitalists and the workers of the world will unite in joy as your headless corpse is displayed on the gates of London." option.

Helpful English class warriors give us map of the enemy terrain. This will be useful in the workers uprising.



Oh my Marx, we're surrounded by them.



Oh joey-shmoey! Moscow has finished its worker what shall we do?

Well the revolutions sure to come must be started by the soldiers of the people, a barracks please.

Me again, our proletariat scientists have discovered Bronze Working and a source of copper near the capitalist English pigs.



Pigs, I see no pigs. Rice, stone and copper I see.

Yes dear.

Excellent, stop the barracks and start a new worker's collective. Chop it out and get that copper.



There will be no stopping us now.



Pah, all he did was call him a pox-ridden imperialistic cur that wasn't even worth p*ssing on if he was on fire. Why are some people hurt by the truth?

Yet another one. This worker's revolution will be glorious indeed.

<missing piccie of de Gaulle>

At last a friend of the workers.



A message to the imperialists.



It is time for the glorious revolution of the English workers. To help them along we have sent a small proletariat's assistance package.

<where is my screenie of my 7 axes marching on London???>



As expected the English imperialists are no match for the united power of their own oppressed workers (and 7 Russian axes).



I stop here to bask in the glory of the first people's uprising on turn 69, that reminds me of other funny Russian joke.

Q: What is difference between capitalist and turd?

A: Capitalist smell bad!

Funny no?

 

[Guardian_PL]

Nice one Ozbenno, like the story, Your gameplay looks pretty similar to mine, with small differences with city placement.
Continue the story

 

[Ozbenno]

or the adventures of Uncle Joe to Turn 150.

Spoiler :

Well its your old buddy Joe back again.

Recapping our first lesson, Soviet Union is the first brigade of proletariat for the entire world.



Now begins a short period of rebuilding and expansion. Then we will bring the worker's revolution to either the American pigs or the French brevniks.

We meet our last imperialist.



May you burn in the hells of which I do not believe.

The Soviets are the first to discover alphabet.

Here friend Mao, use this to write your thoughts down to inspire the workers.



You do what you want peacenik.



As for you imperialist, did you not see the big red NYET of the previous post.



The power of the workers cannot be denied.



Hah! A trick by the imperialists for us to stop us making soldiers.



Our scientists have given us the means of destroying the imperialists.



Another monument to the people.



The next worker's revolution is started, with another care packet from the Soviet and the message. Cut down your enemy with prejudice.





It starts well as 'Red' Chicago joins the struggle.



Then the imperialists discover longbows and conspire to beat down the workers amongst themselves.



Atlanta joins our cause.



We stop our war against the Americans.



We leave the cause here after 150 turns. It is clear that the Soviet is the greatest nation in the known world. Food and hammers are the key to controlling the means of production.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I'm giving this a go. Good progress and much fun so far.

Unfortunately, though, I've had to reload more than once because I forgot about the RP restrictions.

Spoiler :

May you burn in the hells of which I do not believe.

 

[pigswill]

Up to 1140ad.

Spoiler :

Peace and prosperity are the hallmarks of the Communist State.

In 50bc we establish the first college of political education in Stalingrad and our political officers begin the endless mission of confronting the oppressive lies of capitalism (Confucianism founded).

In 300ad the workers unite to establish the Political Fund in Stalingrad (Kong Miao).

In 760ad Lenin prepares his seminal work on Revolutionary Socialism (lightbulb philosophy and establish Taoism, also in Stalingrad ).

In 1000ad we sing the Red Banner for the first time in a wave of ideological enthusiasm (music, GA triggers golden age).

The Moscow Soviet completes the definitive catalogue of the Collected Works of Marx and Engels (Great Library) in 1030ad.

The Red Army strikes a blow against the military-industrial conspiracy of Capitalist Liberalism (declare war on Roos) in 1050ad. Our glorious troops liberate two cities and our comrade Mao joins the revolutionary struggle. The Two Faced Eagle grovels for peace in 1140ad.

To see the Red Flag Flying:


The decadence of the western aristocrats can be clearly seen:

 

[Winston Hughes]

I have been defeated.

Can you guess how?

Spoiler :

That's right, it was the cheesiest of cheesy AP victories - enabled by natural religion spread early in the game, and won thanks to the presence of the religion in only four cities outside of the territory of the winner and his vassal, along with an extra variant rule I adopted for myself (for reasons I shall explain below).

And which capitalist pig won this travesty of a victory?

Spoiler :

It was, of course, the mustachioed German whose name we dare not speak.

How this came about:

Spoiler :

Before I started this game, I had glanced at slobberinbear's screenshots, and noticed the presence of iron in the fat cross. Realising that this knowledge would give me a big advantage at the start of the game, I resolved to adopt an additional rule to compensate - not only must I refrain from adopting a religion, I must also refrain from building any temples, monasteries or missionaries.

Anyway, I got off to a great start (knowing about the iron helped quite a lot, though not as much as popping BW from that hut), building a stack of wonders, conquering Churchill, and firing up a super-charged SE.

I raced ahead in the tech race, conquered Gandhi, and fought off a couple of laughably pathetic American invasions.

By the time the AP elections came around it was nearly 1600ad, and I was setting myself up to take Railroad from Liberalism. It was so late in the game that I'd completely forgotten about the AP, and hadn't noticed it being built. With the AI trailing by a mile, my only thought at this point was to protect my borders whilst teching to a very comfortable victory.

So, it was quite a shock when the message came up asking me to vote in the residency election (and informing me of how few votes I had). I quickly discovered that all five remaining civs had the AP religion, and that 'the German', along with his french vassal, had more than enough votes for the win.

What could I do? Unable to build missionaries to spread the religion to my other cities, I had no choice but to go to war immediately, and try to take enough votes from the Germans and French to prevent the win.

Unfortunately, the timing could not have been worse. My armies were on foreign soil for the first time in nearly a thousand years, dishing out a lesson to the Americans for repeatedly DoWing on a much more powerful neighbour. By the time I could rally my forces to take the first french city, I'd lost several vital turns, and was still some way short of the votes needed to save myself.

Units poured forth from my cities in ever increasing numbers, and rushed to join the front line. Despite a brutal German counterattack, I swiftly took a second city. Still not enough votes, but if I could take just one more city...

Every unit I could muster, many of them severely injured, pushed on towards Paris, the former french capital, which held enough votes to swing the victory election. Defended by a few measly units, the city stood only three tiles from my armies. The huge stack of knights I had built up would be there in only two turns...

The very next turn I was confronted by the message I had been dreading: "Cast your vote in the election to end all elections!".

My troops moved into position. Paris would fall the very next turn.

The German won by only two votes. :suicide:

Conclusions:

Spoiler :

Why did I lose?
The variant rules were obviously a major reason. If I had been able to spread the AP religion to a few cities (which I easily had time to do), then there's no way I would've lost the game.

But the main cause of my defeat was sheer carelessness, and a foolish disregard for what was clearly the only thing that could beat me in this game.

Just like the villain in a murder-mystery novel, I thought I'd covered every angle, when in fact I had missed something glaringly obvious.

Had I paid more attention, I would have recognised the threat from the moment the AP was built, and taken action accordingly.

As it was, that oversight cost me my first defeat against the prince AI for nearly a year.

The AP Victory

Even though I only have myself to blame for losing this game, and despite the fact that the desperate last few turns were a hell of a lot of fun, I've got to say that this victory condition is one of the most poorly implemented features in the history of civ.

That the AP can be abused by a human player is one thing: nobody is forced to do so, and it at least requires some understanding of the game.

But leaving the possibility of the AI winning a fluky victory so early on, and giving the inexperienced or careless player virtually no time to respond, is dreadful game design. Not only is it like the invisible-pit-of-death in some lame-ass early nineties platformer, but it demands that players pay scrupulous attention to the distribution of religion (a very tedious task) in order to be sure of leaping over the pit once they know about it.

For all that, though, I've got to say I had it coming. When I first got BtS I played a string of games where I did nothing but aim for the earliest, cheesiest AP victory I could manage, racking up some monster scores in the process. Now, on my first public game on BtS, two levels below my usual difficulty, the AI has taken its terrible revenge.

The Challenge

to Cam for a brilliantly planned challenge.

The map, the choice of leaders, the use of Aggressive AI, and the RP rules combined perfectly to make one of the most enjoyable games of civ I have ever played. And the thread itself has been just as well handled, with superb presentation and no little wit (and not only from Cam).

I considered writing an RP-style story chronicling the rise of Stalin's empire, with its sudden fall as the punchline. But apart from the fact that explaining the defeat in real-world terms seems pretty much impossible, I decided it would be better to set out how and why I lost as plainly as I could, so others might learn from my hubris.

After all, this is the Strategy and Tips forum.