Buce01: The Slavemaster

[Elephantium]

We should build an Embassy to the Hittites and see if we can't get a ROP - it will help keep them peaceful.

What are we going to do about the Bab cities to our North and to our South? I don't like they way they enfold our territory, but OTOH, they won't give us any slaves if we raze 'em. Also, since they're far from the Bab core, I doubt they're a threat.

Most of the AIs are in the MA!

I agree that we should wait a few turns before going to war - we need a nice-sized stack of units to take out the size 5 and 6 cities that the Babs have so kindly laid outside our borders.

 

[Bucephalus]

We should build an Embassy to the Hittites and see if we can't get a ROP - it will help keep them peaceful.

I think that's a good idea;it will also allow us to see if they are still at war, and with whom.

What are we going to do about the Bab cities to our North and to our South? I don't like they way they enfold our territory, but OTOH, they won't give us any slaves if we raze 'em. Also, since they're far from the Bab core, I doubt they're a threat.

My instinct says to ignore them; I believe we should concentrate our energies taking the 'slave towns' in the West, Elipi, Uruk, and Sammara.

After these fall, we should fill in with Settlers, and look for a profitable peace IMO, after which we can turn our attentions Eastward to the Iriquois.

Most of the AIs are in the MA!

No worries; we were always going to be playing catch-up, and one of the motivations for oscillating war, will be to pick up techs for peace.

I agree that we should wait a few turns before going to war - we need a nice-sized stack of units to take out the size 5 and 6 cities that the Babs have so kindly laid outside our borders.

Yes, I think that seems to be the general concensus.

I'd like you to liaise with CivA, to make sure that he has the units he wants, where he wants them.

CivA: Don't get hung up about the GA - if it happens, it happens; Hoplites offer a big AA advantage, which is why I built them up, so use them to protect those Swords and our peripheral cities.

How you play it is your call, just remember our prime motivation is slaves, followed by a profitable peace.

 

[CivActuary]

Let me try and pull war plans and a dotmap for the settlers together during lunch. That will help in knowing where to set up forces for the attack.

One thing I neglected to do when I looked last night was pull an updated order of battle from the save - how many swords and cats do we currently have? I am thinking I'd like 2 stacks of attacking forces, but that may change.

And I fully anticipate triggering the GA. How should we best make use of it?

 

[Bucephalus]

Let me try and pull war plans and a dotmap for the settlers together during lunch. That will help in knowing where to set up forces for the attack.

One thing I neglected to do when I looked last night was pull an updated order of battle from the save - how many swords and cats do we currently have? I am thinking I'd like 2 stacks of attacking forces, but that may change.

Off the top of my head, 6 Swords, and the first Cats underway; we also have 17(?) Archers and plenty of Hoplites.

And I fully anticipate triggering the GA. How should we best make use of it?

mm each city to build optimally; that is, build units with the fewest shields wasted.

Extra income could be spent on a gpt for outstanding techs, though bear in mind that we'll be seeking techs from Babylon; I think the road to Republic is favourite in either case, though Map Making would be good, too.

It's probably best to deal with Mursilis - he's the only one strong enough and near enough to pose a threat, so it will act as an insurance policy.

 

[CivActuary]

Ok, here are the prelim plans.

Ideally, I would like at least 2 hoplites, 4 swords, 5 cats, and 5 archers in each pincer, more if practicable, especially cats. You can never have too much artillery support. The new town that will be founded with the current settler in the middle of the pincers, signified by the white dot, will likely be the focus of the enemies initial attack, so I would like a garrison of 2 or 3 hops, a cat or 2, and a couple archers or a sword to pick off redlined attackers.

Note the extra move before the attack of the South pincer is to get over the river.

I'd love to raze Nippur up there as well if we have extra forces, but the main focus should be west.

Elephantium, please take note of any Bab movements during the IBT, any info we can get regarding their forces will be helpful.

Now for settling the Bab lands, here's a dotmap:

The white dots are those for which we already have settlers and will be founded in the next set, the rest are war gains. I would propose red and yellow be first after the elimination of the first two Bab cities, so the 2 settlers produced during the next set should be positioned, with an escort, in our closest cities to be ready to claim the land.

Comments/Changes/Suggestions?

 

[Bucephalus]

"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail".

Faultless preparation, CivA.

The only thing I might do differently would be to settle the blue dot, as opposed to the yellow; it's a juicy spot for a city, and I think it would invite the Hittites to put one there if you leave it open.

The yellow, on the other hand, would remain unsettled by Babylon for some time, certainly while we were at war.

You will have no problem getting the Archers and Swords that you require, though you might have to settle for fewer Cats; that said, Babs will be defending with no more than a couple of spears - maybe a Bowman - so I wouldn't let it change your plans.

One thought: don't be in a hurry to settle beyond the first ring that you've dot-mapped; firstly, there is little point in expanding beyond our ability to improve the land, and secondly, if we leave room for Babs to re-populate the area, we'll be able to harvest them for Slaves and techs on subsequent occasions.

Edit: Tusker, once you are ready to play, please keep a careful eye on city mm; it has been the one weak area of an otherwise strong start.

 

[Elephantium]

The war plan will require the following forces:

7 Hoplites
9 Swords
12 Catapults
12 Archers

As yet, we have no Cats, and only three cities are producing them. After touring our empire, I estimate that the following cities can produce the following numbers of cats by the end of my turnset:

Corinth 2
Pharsalos 1
Argos 2
Mycenae 1
...
Knossos 1
Delphi 1
Athens 5
for a total of 13 cats. Note that achieving our Cat goals will require that we sacrifice all sword production!

On the bright side, we do have some spare Archers that could be dispatched to Nippur.

Team, is it worth the loss in Sword production to get the numbers of Cats that CA wants? I'll need to know before I play any further (so far, all I've done is some MMing in the preturn - and we have builds completing next turn!).

 

[Phaedo]

He could probably make do with 8 cats (4 per stack) what would that do to the sword production?

Less than that though, and he would probably be better off with just swords or maybe just 1 stack of 5 cats.

 

[Elephantium]

Producing only 8 cats, we'd still have Athens producing 3 swords during my turnset. That would bring us up to around 13 swords as of the end of my turnset.

Oh, I'm also putting our one Horseman in the new town that (presumably) will take the brunt of the Bab attacks - it will be most helpful there, I think.

 

[Bucephalus]

Try and strike a balance - 8 Cats and 13 Swords sounds about right; don't forget, production doesn't end with your set.

But if you have to choose, prioritise Swords, Cats can't defeat units.

Edit: I see no mention of Thermopylae in your calculations; if it (and Athens) produces Swords, that would give 6 Swords in your set; the rest could make Cats.

 

[CivActuary]

Yes, prioritize the swords. If there are less cats in the stacks, throw some extra archers in - we've got enough of those I think.

I typically tend to overestimate the forces I need to take towns with anyway as I like quick, overwhelming, and decisive strikes. And it is better then underestimating the stacks.

 

[Elephantium]

MM cities, avoiding waste and promoting growth.

Embassy with Hittites
* 4 Ivory
Good news! Murray is at war with the Babs! Oh, and the Zulu, too.

IT:

Babs complain that we have troops near Sippar. We'll move immediately.
Bowman moves next to south town
Bab spear moves to the Wheat next to our new town's site
Korea declares on Murray!
Athens: Sword->Sword
Corinth: Cat->Cat
Ithaca: Curragh->Cat

Turn 1 (330 BC):

Etreria founded near Pharsalos. Making Walls.
Spices are online.
MM:
Corinth = no growth, 4-turn cats
Delphi = no growth, switch to Cat in 2
Thermo = +1 fpt, 10spt
Athens = no growth, 10spt

...WTH, why is the BG next to Thermo mined but not roaded?

IT:

Bowman near S dies vs. Hittite chariots
Bab spear near Etreria moves 1S
We see two Bab Galleys with our Curragh - one moves out of sight to the north.
Our people want the FP!
Argos: Cat->Cat
Mycenae: Barracks->Hoplite
Babs start Sun Tzu's

Turn 2 (310 BC):

MM a bit, move troops. I'm a bit worried about leaving only one defender in any of our border towns, and this is going to tie up a lot of our Archers (we don't have enough Hoplites to defend everything).
Also, we need some of our troops in cities like Thermo and Athens - and Sparta! - for MPs.

IT:

Thermo: Sword->Sword
Delphi: Cat->Cat
Knossos: Sword->Cat
Zulu start Sun Tzu's

Turn 3 (290 BC):

MM for slow growth and 5-turn Cats in Knossos, no growth, no loss in spt for Thermo.

IT:

Furious, the Babs demand that our troops leave at once! We move.
...and then a Bab galley violates our territorial waters at Argos. There ain't no justice.
Athens: Sword->Sword
Sparta: Settler->Settler
Ephesus: Rax->Hoplite
Thessalonica: Walls->Cat

Turn 4 (270 BC):

Move troops.

IT:

Hittites demand 28 gold. They get 28 gold.
Oh, and they want 100 gold for a RoP. No way.
Babs complain about our exploring Curragh. We apologize.
Babs offer a permanent peace treaty. We accept.

Corinth: Cat->Cat
Koreans start Sun Tzu's

Turn 5 (250 BC):

Troy founded on the second white dot, near Ephesus. Making Cat.
Oh, crap. The supposedly "permanent" peace treaty lasts for 20 turns

I'm going to pause for further team discussion at this point.

 

[Bucephalus]

How irritating; team, will you please make sure that "always renegotiate deals" is off, when you play.

OK, We have two alternatives; we could either switch our attentions to the Iroquois, or wait until turn 3 of CivA's set, at which time our deal with Hittites expire.

Now would be a good time to hit them.

Opinions, please.

 

[CivActuary]

Something about best laid plans and whatnot...

Since the world seems to be dogpiling on the Hittites I suppose it would be right neighborly of us to join in. We could take his Ivory and halt his production of ACavs, which would make him less scary in the future.

Iros seem weaker though, and those little towns are ripe for picking.

What's the status of our military vs. everyone?

 

[Bucephalus]

"The best laid plans o' mice and men gang aft agley"

I'm thinking that a limited war against Mursilis would net the Ivory and Iron (see screenshot) in 5 turns of CivA's set, by which time Mursilis should be happy to give tech for peace; it would be relitively simple for Tusker to set it up.

That would leave 8 turns to re-position our forces on the border with Babylon, at which time our peace deal would be over.

That would be turn 3 of Miles' set.

It should only take 5 or 6 of turns to raze and replace the Bab cities that we originally targeted, and get out with tech for peace.

That would leave Phaedo to reassemble the troops in the East and DOW Iroquois.

If we continue to oscilate our wars like that we will soon catch up in tech, all the time expanding our lands.

But we must keep in mind the name of the game - we need slaves.

Spoiler :

The blue crosses indicate where I suggest our new cities should go.

 

[Bucephalus]

CivA and Tusker If this plan meets with team approval, you will again need to confer to set it up.

 

[CivActuary]

Looks like a plan. Should be a smooth attack with the Hittite forces occupied elsewhere. Any Hittite counterstrike should come against either our SOD or Rhodes, either of which we could fend off easily.

Edit: One attack stack should be simpler to set up in Rhodes, with all the cats we can muster, plus all the aforementioned swords. Probably won't need as many archers if we are in one stack, but a couple would be nice to have to leave in the cities we found for the defensive bombard. I'd take along 3 or 4 hoplites to move with the SOD, plus extras to leave in the towns we found. And if you can't get everything there we've got an extra 3 turns of my set to set it up too.

 

[Elephantium]

Keep in mind that Murray has four Ivory, and Aleppo only supplies him with three of those.

Also, the Babs have a unit or two in our territory...a "Remove or declare!" might do the trick - but I doubt we can rely on Bab units being in the right place at the right time at the end of my turnset. Should I give it a try, or would a possible early start to this war cause big problems?

 

[Bucephalus]

Keep in mind that Murray has four Ivory, and Aleppo only supplies him with three of those.

AC's are not so scary in the MA's, and he will have used up his stockpile of them by now; those three Ivory will bring in a lot of gold through the ages.

Also, the Babs have a unit or two in our territory...a "Remove or declare!" might do the trick - but I doubt we can rely on Bab units being in the right place at the right time at the end of my turnset. Should I give it a try, or would a possible early start to this war cause big problems?

I'm not a big fan of spontaneous war; had our forces already been in position, then maybe, but kicking off now gives them time to prepare for our strike on their cities. Worse, it may also convince them to give Mursilis peace, and them being at one anothers throats is what gives us our advantage.

There will be plenty of times for you to get blood on your hands, don't fret.

 

[Phaedo]

I think joining the dogpile on Murray is taking advantage of a nice opportunity and you guys seem to have it well in hand. Nice work!