Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Our rep was fine in 750 AD; Mursilis would give 80g for 8gpt.
Looking at what you traded, it should be OK now as well.
Buce01: The Slavemaster
- Thread starter Bucephalus
- Start date
Our rep was fine in 750 AD; Mursilis would give 80g for 8gpt.
Looking at what you traded, it should be OK now as well.
Phaedo
Emperor
This is the save I have. What am I doing wrong?
This is the save I downloaded. I never change it. I always work from a temp save. Sorry for the delay, I just really want to figure this out. I'd hate to bugger things up because I'm not getting it. They didn't go for 80g for 8gpt on my save.
Thus far, as I understand it, if we stop paying gpt, lux or resources when we made the deal for tech or a lump sum payment our rep would be busted but not if our per turn good were for their per turn goods?
Spoiler :
This is the save I downloaded. I never change it. I always work from a temp save. Sorry for the delay, I just really want to figure this out. I'd hate to bugger things up because I'm not getting it. They didn't go for 80g for 8gpt on my save.
Thus far, as I understand it, if we stop paying gpt, lux or resources when we made the deal for tech or a lump sum payment our rep would be busted but not if our per turn good were for their per turn goods?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
This is the save I have. What am I doing wrong?
Spoiler :
This is the save I downloaded. I never change it. I always work from a temp save. Sorry for the delay, I just really want to figure this out. I'd hate to bugger things up because I'm not getting it. They didn't go for 80g for 8gpt on my save.
Thus far, as I understand it, if we stop paying gpt, lux or resources when we made the deal for tech or a lump sum payment our rep would be busted but not if our per turn good were for their per turn goods?
That's odd.
Is it Miles' save, without you altering anything?
BTW, WM or TM counts as 'hard' goods.
Phaedo
Emperor
Didn't change a thing. I Just loaded it and then saved it a "buce temp" It's before I did anything at all. I'll try downloading it again into a different folder, ope it and see what happens. A broken rep is fairly significant. I'm not quite sure what to do about this.
Phaedo
Emperor
I just downloaded it again from post #360 and got the same result.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Very odd.
Will you mail the save to me, please? I'm wondering if it's something to do with computers.
Phaedo
Emperor
Okay, I have no idea what is going on. When I download the 730AD save, Murray will do the 80 for 8gpt I have now tried downloading the 750AD save three times and still get the "insulted" message. What do I do? If it is a problem with my game or PC, someone else should take the set. I've read MT's log on his last 2 turns and can't see where a rep could be broken. It also seems that Buce could get the 80 for 8gpt on his pc. What do I do? A broken rep is one thing, but a random broken rep is more than a little worrisome. If there is some bug in my game I should back out until I can get it fixed.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Let me check again - it's just possible that I was looking at the 730AD save.
Edit: No, it's the 750AD save I'm looking at.
Just got your mail - back soon.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Mystery solved - you were trying to make a gpt deal while running negative gpt; the AI can see that you are trying to live beyond your means.
Lower the slider and try again.
Lower the slider and try again.
Phaedo
Emperor
Gotcha. Again, sorry for the delay. It was definitely a learning experience though. I'll try to finish it now. Rep is intact (he breathes a sigh of relief)
Phaedo
Emperor
Once again I have to apologize for the delay. Some stuff came up and I could only get in one turn. It was an exciting turn though (and long). Here's a peek at what is going on.
Before you look at the spoiler, it is important to know that the Iros are finally heading south (I would still like to make an RoP to speed that up but I understand the reticence and it would probably just get us into more trouble, especially if we decide for a quick peace with Shaka. Given his size however, we may want to keep the dogpile on him). I think we could take the lead in tech. I think we can get up to parity now and break the AI's bank by going to war with the Arabs against Osman.
Before you look at the spoiler, it is important to know that the Iros are finally heading south (I would still like to make an RoP to speed that up but I understand the reticence and it would probably just get us into more trouble, especially if we decide for a quick peace with Shaka. Given his size however, we may want to keep the dogpile on him). I think we could take the lead in tech. I think we can get up to parity now and break the AI's bank by going to war with the Arabs against Osman.
Spoiler :
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Buy Printing Press from Hittites with Metallurgy + gold
Buy Music Theory from Netherlands with Metallurgy
Buy Economics from Arabia with Printing Press
Buy Navigation from Ottomans with Printing Press
Buy MT from Zulu with whatever they require from the above list.
Then we're ahead of everyone when Physics comes in next turn.
Buy Music Theory from Netherlands with Metallurgy
Buy Economics from Arabia with Printing Press
Buy Navigation from Ottomans with Printing Press
Buy MT from Zulu with whatever they require from the above list.
Then we're ahead of everyone when Physics comes in next turn.
Phaedo
Emperor
Oh I expect we'll be ahead all right. I think it is a matter of coming out as rich as possible. We want an immediate peace with Shaka then? I'll play in an hour or so.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yeah, I think that's cool, seeing as we are leaving the others fighting.
Phaedo
Emperor
Here is the full log with all the pauses:
Open the save and have a look around. Things aren't so bad but there are a number of things I want to change and don't quite know where to start. Decide to look at trading options first.
Before actually contacting anyone I realize that we don't have any embassies with the new Civs. It will only cost a couple hundred gold so do that.
All have salt, iron and horses.
Willy will give us Music Theory and 50 for Banking. I wouldn't mind getting something for it as the rest already have Banking but I'm going to wait to see what happens. I don't think 50g is enough to buy it outright from the other AI.
I guess that's it for the International Relations for the other continent.
We are currently at 4671g and -37gpt. Change a bunch of citizen assignments. Keep shields at 14+ or 8spt or 10spt where possible. Changed some builds and prioritize Libs over markets where shields wouldn't be wasted. We can use the Culture as well and the beakers
Start moving troops.
IBT Our deal with Iro expires. They won't consider gpt with salt and spice for their silks. They will give 21gpt and silks for Banking and salt. That's a fair bit of gold and they and Zulu are the only ones on the continent that don't have it. I get them to Aly against Shaka as well and make the deal (no point in Shaka getting their gold)
Ellipie Lib>Market (for the happiness)
Artemesium Lib>Market (same reason)
Syracuse Lib> Court (50% corrupt)
T1 760AD
Lots of troop shuffling. The intense decision making happened on the pre-turn and the IBT. We have a couple of knights being built and once we finish a few raxes, I'll get the MI pairs going.
Oh yea, Metallurgy is now in 2
IBT Zzzz
T2 770AD
Ottomans now are up Music, Nav and Metallurgy (which we get next turn). They also have close to 500g
Get troops into position. We should be ready to declare on the Babs and take out their city in our midst next turn. That will also get the Iros out of our territory.
IBT Learn Metallurgy. Murray will only give us 80g for it so he is close to getting it too. I'm not sure what to choose as the next tech. I decide on Physics. Murray has been rather aggressive and will probably go for Cav and MT gives Osman his UU. I'm tempted for the 4-tun Printing but settle on Physics.
Shaka also dropped off an MI
T3 780AD
It seems that we can buy MT from Shaka. However we have 1 turns left in our MA with Murray and 17 turns left with the Iros. We just take an attitude hit if we break that right? We are up banking on Shaka so could probably get our MT. That would also give us a monopoly tech on the other continent. Osman doesn't have it and he has lots of gold.
I'l get the rest of the stuff done in the turn before pausing for input.
Kill the MI Shaka landed with no loss (1-0)
Found Apolyton
Join the Iros in their war against Hammy and take him down to 1 spear in Nippur (3-0)
Check with Shaka. 2000g and Banking is "doubtful" for a deal for MT. So that's a moot point until he takes more losses.
IBT Fight off a Bab attack on the new city (4-0)
Shaka lands a pike.
T4 790AD
Kill the last defender of Nippur and raze it grabbing a settler in the process and a Cat. New settler in place to build.
Kill Shaka's Pike (6-0)
Workers are getting into appropriately numbered stacks.
IBT Zzzzz
T5 800AD
Found Herakleita on the old Nippur position.
We have way too many Hopilites but we do have a very long border. Start sending them to the border towns. We have offensive units within striking distance of vulnerable coast tiles. The Iros walking through our territory are a bit of a concern but they are all heading toward the Babs.
After playing thus far, I have come to agree that as Shaka is bigger than Murray, we need to keep Murray relatively strong. Relegating the Iros to the island would be good too as it would allow us to directly attack Shaka. He would be hard pressed to fight off us and Murray.
IBT Arabia declares on Osman. That is probably to our advantage.
Ellipi riots. Hmmm that's odd. We lost a lux. Perhaps from the Iros. Do the tour and stop 4 more riots.
T6 810AD
It seems Punky lost a couple of his silks to the Iros and thus we lost ours.
Sell a spice to Murray for 7gpt and 107g to keep him on our side.
Pause for input.
After a lot of confusion based on my misunderstanding, get back to it. I think I finally "get" the rep issue though so I appreciate the patience. That alone was worth the game.
Off we go,
Give up on the idea of an RoP even though that 1 extra lux would make a world of difference.
Set up for an attack on the Babs
IBT Hopilite kills a Bab LB (7-0). The Iros finally start sending units south. Arabs start Smiths.
T7 820AD
Arabs learn Economics and Murray learns Prints.
Kill a Bab pike that got suckered out of a forest (silly AI) (8-0)
Raze Nineveh (10-0)
Start looking into the trading.
Arabia are the richest and Murry is pretty broke. We are also missing two contacts. We can be pretty sure Murray doesn't know anyone new. That would indicate that the Arabs would be best to trade with first but we have nothing to offer them so it's a no brainer.
The Trades
Get PP from Murray for 16gpt and Metallurgy
Hmmm interesting... The Arabs have contact with Egypt. Get that by giving them contact with Portugal and 2g.
Nice! Egypt has Economics too.
Get Econ + 191g from Arabs
Get 141g Territory Mp and Music from Osman for Econ
Decide to give Cleo Prints and 38gpt for Nav. I want this first as it will allow us to get luxes in other deals and I intend to ally with the Arabs against Osman after I break him. [Interestingly enough, Shaka still won't deal for PP and Bank]
Join the Islamic power struggle against the Turks for:
22gpt
Give Cleo ivory for 6gpt
Get gems wines and WM form Willie
Give ivory to the Arabs for another 5gpt and 160g (they now have 9g but seem to be making 79gpt)
Get peace with Shaka for MT, 20g, WM and contact with Inca (we should have explored down there but now spilt milk)
Sell Economics to Murray for Incense, WM 30g and 34gpt
Sell MT to the arabs for 79gpt, furs, WM and 9g (all they have)
Sell MT and spices to Cleo for 111gpt and WM
So, now we are at 5395g with 351gpt (183gpt at 100% research). All civs are broke and we are getting all their gpt. We still have contacts to sell, it looks like the AI will need galleys to cross the seas and we will have a monopoly on Physics next turn.
Establish Embassy in Thebes
I didn't bother establishing an Embassy with Inca as they suck eggs
Rush a market in Ellipi to get the clown back to work and a rax in Apolyton to make the Bab war easier. Also upgrade a few knights to Cavs.
Build an embassy in Egypt
Okay, that took about an hour and a half.
IBT Babs try to move a settler pair down. They are so conciliatory. Get Physics. Decide to go for ToG as someone is bound to go for Mag. Get some WLTKDs, plant some trees in front of our palace and start some builds. Cleo and Willie make peace.
T8 830AD
Give Cleo horses for 5gpt (all she'll give), 20g and WM
Take the Bab settler pair (12-0)
Continue improving land. Move forces in place to take the last two Bab cities I think we should take. I think we should leave the Cap with some free land so they keep building settlers to go there.
IBT Iros and Babs sign peace (that's good for us)
T9 840AD
Take Ashur (with a settler in it) and a settler pair (16-0)
Take Akkad (18-0) and get a slave.
Kill a lone Bab pike (19-0)
We could boot the Iros and take all their units if we had to but I think it better to wait until we can get some more units into positiion before we declare. We still don't have enough settlers to fill the land in the West effectively yet.
IBT Zzzz
T10 850AD
Kill 2 Bab Spears that landed (21-0)
Put what workers are available to work or move them toward jobs.
Do a tour and make sure we are working the tiles we want.
I'm going to stop there. Other than the 2 Cavs that fought off the invasion, all military units have movement. I started cannon in corrupt towns as place holders.
Pics
So at the end of it all, I'm pretty happy with the set. We are rich and getting richer, we are tech leaders and Shaka is the only other guy on our continent with Cavs, and we are researching the most advanced techs in 5 turns with some Unis still to come online. Most importantly, I think I finally "get" the rep issue.
The Iros in our territory are a slight concern (though not a great one with our Cavs) and are I think the next target. I think we need to think about leaving some space open for Hammy to settle so we can continue to harvest slaves. We still have tons of improving to do.
Basically, it is now a matter of good Empire management, smart research and trading and keeping some of the AI in check. We have a number of Lux deals that are giving us huge happiness so whoever is after Buce should make sure to check when they run out. I think we could also have a shot at Newtons. It would seriously help our research. It's a bit of a whimsical thought but a thought nonetheless.
Open the save and have a look around. Things aren't so bad but there are a number of things I want to change and don't quite know where to start. Decide to look at trading options first.
Before actually contacting anyone I realize that we don't have any embassies with the new Civs. It will only cost a couple hundred gold so do that.
Spoiler :
All have salt, iron and horses.
Willy will give us Music Theory and 50 for Banking. I wouldn't mind getting something for it as the rest already have Banking but I'm going to wait to see what happens. I don't think 50g is enough to buy it outright from the other AI.
I guess that's it for the International Relations for the other continent.
We are currently at 4671g and -37gpt. Change a bunch of citizen assignments. Keep shields at 14+ or 8spt or 10spt where possible. Changed some builds and prioritize Libs over markets where shields wouldn't be wasted. We can use the Culture as well and the beakers
Start moving troops.
IBT Our deal with Iro expires. They won't consider gpt with salt and spice for their silks. They will give 21gpt and silks for Banking and salt. That's a fair bit of gold and they and Zulu are the only ones on the continent that don't have it. I get them to Aly against Shaka as well and make the deal (no point in Shaka getting their gold)
Ellipie Lib>Market (for the happiness)
Artemesium Lib>Market (same reason)
Syracuse Lib> Court (50% corrupt)
T1 760AD
Lots of troop shuffling. The intense decision making happened on the pre-turn and the IBT. We have a couple of knights being built and once we finish a few raxes, I'll get the MI pairs going.
Oh yea, Metallurgy is now in 2
IBT Zzzz
T2 770AD
Ottomans now are up Music, Nav and Metallurgy (which we get next turn). They also have close to 500g
Get troops into position. We should be ready to declare on the Babs and take out their city in our midst next turn. That will also get the Iros out of our territory.
IBT Learn Metallurgy. Murray will only give us 80g for it so he is close to getting it too. I'm not sure what to choose as the next tech. I decide on Physics. Murray has been rather aggressive and will probably go for Cav and MT gives Osman his UU. I'm tempted for the 4-tun Printing but settle on Physics.
Shaka also dropped off an MI
T3 780AD
It seems that we can buy MT from Shaka. However we have 1 turns left in our MA with Murray and 17 turns left with the Iros. We just take an attitude hit if we break that right? We are up banking on Shaka so could probably get our MT. That would also give us a monopoly tech on the other continent. Osman doesn't have it and he has lots of gold.
I'l get the rest of the stuff done in the turn before pausing for input.
Kill the MI Shaka landed with no loss (1-0)
Found Apolyton
Join the Iros in their war against Hammy and take him down to 1 spear in Nippur (3-0)
Check with Shaka. 2000g and Banking is "doubtful" for a deal for MT. So that's a moot point until he takes more losses.
IBT Fight off a Bab attack on the new city (4-0)
Shaka lands a pike.
T4 790AD
Kill the last defender of Nippur and raze it grabbing a settler in the process and a Cat. New settler in place to build.
Kill Shaka's Pike (6-0)
Workers are getting into appropriately numbered stacks.
IBT Zzzzz
T5 800AD
Found Herakleita on the old Nippur position.
We have way too many Hopilites but we do have a very long border. Start sending them to the border towns. We have offensive units within striking distance of vulnerable coast tiles. The Iros walking through our territory are a bit of a concern but they are all heading toward the Babs.
After playing thus far, I have come to agree that as Shaka is bigger than Murray, we need to keep Murray relatively strong. Relegating the Iros to the island would be good too as it would allow us to directly attack Shaka. He would be hard pressed to fight off us and Murray.
IBT Arabia declares on Osman. That is probably to our advantage.
Ellipi riots. Hmmm that's odd. We lost a lux. Perhaps from the Iros. Do the tour and stop 4 more riots.
T6 810AD
It seems Punky lost a couple of his silks to the Iros and thus we lost ours.
Sell a spice to Murray for 7gpt and 107g to keep him on our side.
Pause for input.
After a lot of confusion based on my misunderstanding, get back to it. I think I finally "get" the rep issue though so I appreciate the patience. That alone was worth the game.
Off we go,
Give up on the idea of an RoP even though that 1 extra lux would make a world of difference.
Set up for an attack on the Babs
IBT Hopilite kills a Bab LB (7-0). The Iros finally start sending units south. Arabs start Smiths.
T7 820AD
Arabs learn Economics and Murray learns Prints.
Kill a Bab pike that got suckered out of a forest (silly AI) (8-0)
Raze Nineveh (10-0)
Start looking into the trading.
Arabia are the richest and Murry is pretty broke. We are also missing two contacts. We can be pretty sure Murray doesn't know anyone new. That would indicate that the Arabs would be best to trade with first but we have nothing to offer them so it's a no brainer.
The Trades
Get PP from Murray for 16gpt and Metallurgy
Hmmm interesting... The Arabs have contact with Egypt. Get that by giving them contact with Portugal and 2g.
Nice! Egypt has Economics too.
Get Econ + 191g from Arabs
Get 141g Territory Mp and Music from Osman for Econ
Decide to give Cleo Prints and 38gpt for Nav. I want this first as it will allow us to get luxes in other deals and I intend to ally with the Arabs against Osman after I break him. [Interestingly enough, Shaka still won't deal for PP and Bank]
Join the Islamic power struggle against the Turks for:
22gpt
Give Cleo ivory for 6gpt
Get gems wines and WM form Willie
Give ivory to the Arabs for another 5gpt and 160g (they now have 9g but seem to be making 79gpt)
Get peace with Shaka for MT, 20g, WM and contact with Inca (we should have explored down there but now spilt milk)
Sell Economics to Murray for Incense, WM 30g and 34gpt
Sell MT to the arabs for 79gpt, furs, WM and 9g (all they have)
Sell MT and spices to Cleo for 111gpt and WM
So, now we are at 5395g with 351gpt (183gpt at 100% research). All civs are broke and we are getting all their gpt. We still have contacts to sell, it looks like the AI will need galleys to cross the seas and we will have a monopoly on Physics next turn.
Establish Embassy in Thebes
Spoiler :
I didn't bother establishing an Embassy with Inca as they suck eggs
Rush a market in Ellipi to get the clown back to work and a rax in Apolyton to make the Bab war easier. Also upgrade a few knights to Cavs.
Build an embassy in Egypt
Okay, that took about an hour and a half.
IBT Babs try to move a settler pair down. They are so conciliatory. Get Physics. Decide to go for ToG as someone is bound to go for Mag. Get some WLTKDs, plant some trees in front of our palace and start some builds. Cleo and Willie make peace.
T8 830AD
Give Cleo horses for 5gpt (all she'll give), 20g and WM
Take the Bab settler pair (12-0)
Continue improving land. Move forces in place to take the last two Bab cities I think we should take. I think we should leave the Cap with some free land so they keep building settlers to go there.
IBT Iros and Babs sign peace (that's good for us)
T9 840AD
Take Ashur (with a settler in it) and a settler pair (16-0)
Take Akkad (18-0) and get a slave.
Kill a lone Bab pike (19-0)
We could boot the Iros and take all their units if we had to but I think it better to wait until we can get some more units into positiion before we declare. We still don't have enough settlers to fill the land in the West effectively yet.
IBT Zzzz
T10 850AD
Kill 2 Bab Spears that landed (21-0)
Put what workers are available to work or move them toward jobs.
Do a tour and make sure we are working the tiles we want.
I'm going to stop there. Other than the 2 Cavs that fought off the invasion, all military units have movement. I started cannon in corrupt towns as place holders.
Pics
Spoiler :
So at the end of it all, I'm pretty happy with the set. We are rich and getting richer, we are tech leaders and Shaka is the only other guy on our continent with Cavs, and we are researching the most advanced techs in 5 turns with some Unis still to come online. Most importantly, I think I finally "get" the rep issue.
The Iros in our territory are a slight concern (though not a great one with our Cavs) and are I think the next target. I think we need to think about leaving some space open for Hammy to settle so we can continue to harvest slaves. We still have tons of improving to do.
Basically, it is now a matter of good Empire management, smart research and trading and keeping some of the AI in check. We have a number of Lux deals that are giving us huge happiness so whoever is after Buce should make sure to check when they run out. I think we could also have a shot at Newtons. It would seriously help our research. It's a bit of a whimsical thought but a thought nonetheless.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I'll take a look later but it sounds fine.
Regarding rep, I'm pleased it's making sense to you now, but be assured defaulting on an alliance that we are paying for per-turn, is also a rep hit.
Regarding rep, I'm pleased it's making sense to you now, but be assured defaulting on an alliance that we are paying for per-turn, is also a rep hit.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
How's the turnset going, Buce?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I'm on the case, mate; I was 'up' in RL the last few days.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Sorry for the delay, RL is relentless just now, and won't let up for a couple of days yet; it would probably be better if I switch with someone - CivA? Tusker? Can you rescue me?
Edit:
I have time out on Wednesday, so unless someone else can play it before then...........
Edit:
I have time out on Wednesday, so unless someone else can play it before then...........
Miles Teg
Nuclear Powered Mentat
Just a note to everyone. I'm going to AFK for 5 days, so don't expect any input
