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Bugs 2.1 The Gauntlet Revisited
- Thread starter Sir Bugsy
- Start date
, Ave, Justus!
Justus II
General Staff
OK, Had a chance to re-read through the thread, just a couple things that jumped out at me:
Not trying to jump in and criticize, but wasn't there supposed to be no pre-builds/swapping production?
I'm sure it was an oversight, it's almost instinct to pre-build, so we probably need to be extra-careful about this.
This could actually be a good thing! With no pre-builds, we have little hope of building any wonders ourselves, at least until all cascades break, and maybe not even then! However, capturing wonders is still a viable option, and having a good one completed by our friendly neighbor might turn out for the best (someday, when we can actually build enough troops to take it, that is...)
Thanks for the welcomes!
gozpel said:
Not trying to jump in and criticize, but wasn't there supposed to be no pre-builds/swapping production?
I'm sure it was an oversight, it's almost instinct to pre-build, so we probably need to be extra-careful about this.
gozpel said:
This could actually be a good thing! With no pre-builds, we have little hope of building any wonders ourselves, at least until all cascades break, and maybe not even then! However, capturing wonders is still a viable option, and having a good one completed by our friendly neighbor might turn out for the best (someday, when we can actually build enough troops to take it, that is...)
Thanks for the welcomes!
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
haha, i see we must keep gozpel on a short leash on this one 
good catch justus
let me throw out a suggestion: it's good if the players can list any towns at the end of thier turns that do not have shields (or many shields) in the bucket towards a particular build. That way, the next player knows right away where he has options for changes. this could be useful later when we have so many towns that it's difficult to list all the interturn builds.
good catch justus let me throw out a suggestion: it's good if the players can list any towns at the end of thier turns that do not have shields (or many shields) in the bucket towards a particular build. That way, the next player knows right away where he has options for changes. this could be useful later when we have so many towns that it's difficult to list all the interturn builds.
You're completely right Justus, my mistake. I can only defend it that we didn't have MapMaking before I traded and I wanted a galley and changed it. And curraghs can't transport units
But a swap is a swap is a....Ah well, I will try to remember next time
Mountains, marshes, jungles, tundra and desert on a small world....China to our south and Carthage to our north, at least they are not expansionist, both industrious, though, and one warmonger. Resources are gonna be a problem. Mao has iron and Hannibal iron, horses and two luxuries in surplus. Millie the MilAd tells me the best unit the Cathaginians have, that we know of, is "the worker"
There has to be another continent out there, somewhere, as there are three nations yet unmet.
Reassign some citizens to get growth in 2 and the settler in three at Istanbul and the FP in 32 at Bursa and get 5spt at Erdrine.
The settler shuttle survives a barb galley and is renamed SG Island Sultana
Koreans build SoZ.
1-730
SG Island Sultana sails for Iznik
Settler builds Kafa where he stands.
Rename secind galley SG Arctic Explorer
Warrior at Kafa heads south on barb hunt
2-710
Istanbul gorws, lux to 20. Lit due in 2.
SG Arctic Ex finds iron mountain on the south island.
3-690
Istanbul finishes settler and set to produce a worker in 2 and grow in 2
4-670
Learn Literature and try to trade for Polytheism with Hannibal. We're only close if we include the whole treasury.
He will sell Construction for Literature+50g+5gpt. I don't trust him as he could just as easily beat it out of our hide, and the trade values out at almost full value and we can get the deficit from China, so do the deal.
Mao will make up the cash deficit or trade HBR for Literature and 8g. Decide to leave it on the table for now and turn up the heat on Currency
5-650
Sultana sets sail from Iznik with settler and warrior for the neck in the island. And Hannibal the greedy pig sells Literature to Mao for 43g and probably 5gpt, now that's a demigod discount.
6-630
China starts the Great Library and moves a spear and a sword into our territory.
ArcEx finishes circumnavigating the south island and sails for the China coast.
7-610
Cathage violates our borders with a single NuMerc and there is a warrior following.
Settler lands on neck and ArcEx sails the China coast
Hannibal has a new friend as he now has no money and Currency
Cathage declares war!, attacks Izmit and loses a warrior and the stupid citizenry build a veranda for the cave.
8-590
Shift some troops towards Bursa. There is a single NuMerc in the mulberry forest and an elite warrior just across the border.
Carthage cuts the silk road and Istanbul riots. Cycle the rest of the towns, hire a scientist and a couple of tax guys and one clown.
There is a Punic galley on the coast outside Izmit.
9-570
Raise the lux tax and get everbody back to the fields except for a single scientist (Uskudar) and a tax collector (Iznik).
Lose a spear at Izmit to NuMerc, but warrior fends off elite warrior. Izmit celebrates by rioting in the streets.
10-550
Lose an archer and redline another on the border killing a Carthaginian sword on the border. Garrison spear at Bursa moves out to cover archer. With any luck the two NuMercs threatening Izmit will divert to the spear and archer. Otherwise Izmit is lost with only one warrior in the garrison and no way to reinforce. The Carthaginian galley is cruising the coast looking for an opening.
The Front
It's a fine kettle of fish you're getting Justus: War, unhappy citizens, not enough troops, no luxuries, no resources.....
If Hannibal will talk you could just gift him the little town in the marshes and hope he goes away quietly. It's what he wants anyway. The restriction on build switching is a big cramp on the flexibility here. Stopping the galley builds to build troops would have cost a lot of scarce shields, but might have been the best thing to do when Hannibal declared, but that was the last thing I expected after paying him money...What's his problem with me, anyway? I cave in when he gets shirty, continue to do business with him, and he still declares with a sneak attack...
Team 2.1
grahamiam
microbe
gozpel
Bede <- just played
Justus II <- up
There has to be another continent out there, somewhere, as there are three nations yet unmet.
Reassign some citizens to get growth in 2 and the settler in three at Istanbul and the FP in 32 at Bursa and get 5spt at Erdrine.
The settler shuttle survives a barb galley and is renamed SG Island Sultana
Koreans build SoZ.
1-730
SG Island Sultana sails for Iznik
Settler builds Kafa where he stands.
Rename secind galley SG Arctic Explorer
Warrior at Kafa heads south on barb hunt
2-710
Istanbul gorws, lux to 20. Lit due in 2.
SG Arctic Ex finds iron mountain on the south island.
3-690
Istanbul finishes settler and set to produce a worker in 2 and grow in 2
4-670
Learn Literature and try to trade for Polytheism with Hannibal. We're only close if we include the whole treasury.
He will sell Construction for Literature+50g+5gpt. I don't trust him as he could just as easily beat it out of our hide, and the trade values out at almost full value and we can get the deficit from China, so do the deal.
Mao will make up the cash deficit or trade HBR for Literature and 8g. Decide to leave it on the table for now and turn up the heat on Currency
5-650
Sultana sets sail from Iznik with settler and warrior for the neck in the island. And Hannibal the greedy pig sells Literature to Mao for 43g and probably 5gpt, now that's a demigod discount.
6-630
China starts the Great Library and moves a spear and a sword into our territory.
ArcEx finishes circumnavigating the south island and sails for the China coast.
7-610
Cathage violates our borders with a single NuMerc and there is a warrior following.
Settler lands on neck and ArcEx sails the China coast
Hannibal has a new friend as he now has no money and Currency
Cathage declares war!, attacks Izmit and loses a warrior and the stupid citizenry build a veranda for the cave.
8-590
Shift some troops towards Bursa. There is a single NuMerc in the mulberry forest and an elite warrior just across the border.
Carthage cuts the silk road and Istanbul riots. Cycle the rest of the towns, hire a scientist and a couple of tax guys and one clown.
There is a Punic galley on the coast outside Izmit.
9-570
Raise the lux tax and get everbody back to the fields except for a single scientist (Uskudar) and a tax collector (Iznik).
Lose a spear at Izmit to NuMerc, but warrior fends off elite warrior. Izmit celebrates by rioting in the streets.
10-550
Lose an archer and redline another on the border killing a Carthaginian sword on the border. Garrison spear at Bursa moves out to cover archer. With any luck the two NuMercs threatening Izmit will divert to the spear and archer. Otherwise Izmit is lost with only one warrior in the garrison and no way to reinforce. The Carthaginian galley is cruising the coast looking for an opening.
The Front
It's a fine kettle of fish you're getting Justus: War, unhappy citizens, not enough troops, no luxuries, no resources.....
If Hannibal will talk you could just gift him the little town in the marshes and hope he goes away quietly. It's what he wants anyway. The restriction on build switching is a big cramp on the flexibility here. Stopping the galley builds to build troops would have cost a lot of scarce shields, but might have been the best thing to do when Hannibal declared, but that was the last thing I expected after paying him money...What's his problem with me, anyway? I cave in when he gets shirty, continue to do business with him, and he still declares with a sneak attack...
Team 2.1
grahamiam
microbe
gozpel
Bede <- just played
Justus II <- up
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
must be your breathBede said:What's his problem with me, anyway? I cave in when he gets shirty, continue to do business with him, and he still declares with a sneak attack...
nice set bede, given the circumstances. any thoughts on getting china in on the fun vs carthage? it will force hannibal to waste his GA entirely on military and prevent a dogpile that we really can't handle. actually, looks like some unit whipping is in order either way.microbe said:
Sorry, didn't think it was going to go that cheap. I had hoped for a little more cash out of the Maoster.
grahamiam said:
Tried that at least once but the Chinee wasn't having any. He is way too exposed to retaliation from Hannibal.
Justus II
General Staff
OK, I'm back, thanks for your patience! Got it, I will play tonight. I'll be looking it over between now and then, so any other suggestions, I'd be glad to hear. I agree we cannot afford a dogpile, but I'm not sure what else we can use to sweeten the deal for Mao. And yes, I do feel the need to break out the 
Justus II
General Staff
Pre-Game thoughts: Looks like my priorities will be defense, defense, defense! One of my thoughts prior to opening the save is that we will need more defenders than an average game. I am usually a pretty big Farmers Gambit player myself, but running minimal defenses relies on the ability to change over to a wartime economy on short notice. With these variants, we dont have that option, and I think we will need to be much more conservative on defenses because of it. (Not just during the Current Crisis, but in general). Taking the No Upgrade rule into account, it may be a little painful to build a bunch of spears, but right now its what we need.
A closer look at the map reveals one of the most resource-poor locations Ive seen in a while. No strategic resources, and only one luxury, which isnt connected any more (and being on the border with Carthage, might not get connected for a while!).
OK, no build swaps, so just some old-fashioned MM. My priority here was to get as much stuff to finish as I could, so THEN I could swap to defenders.
Istanbul-MM to get settler in 1
Edrine gets its archer, its got one of our few barracks, and can regrow next turn
Bursa-Locked into FP for the foreseeable future (too bad, its another barracks city, but will be a good FP choice once we roll Carthage back )
Iznik-Steals a mine from Uskadar to finish Galley next turn, at no growth.
Uskadar-Pretty corrupt anyway, so it whips the galley.
Izmit-Looks like someones used the whip here before! Not much I can do, but change tax to clown.
Antayla-Whip the temple.
The rest of our towns are on track, good to see lots of workers on our new island, for future development. I did think about zeroing out one or two of the galleys, and then starting spears, but I hate to waste shields, and we need some more galleys for escorts and to find the other continent, we have to get into a brokering loop somehow.
Now to diplomacy. China is definitely skittish about joining us, but with some creative bookkeeping (100% tax), I see it is possible. I debate this a bit, but at this point, a dogpile on us is probably game over, whereas getting the two of them fighting each other is probably our best bet for pulling ourselves closer to the pack. The deciding factor was knowing Carthage had Currency, meaning they have a good bargaining chip to get China on their side if we dont act fast. I sign the alliance, for 2g and 32 gpt. After resetting luxuries to 40%, were running a 12 deficit, at least for this turn. I should be able to re-MM next turn after these builds complete, and hopefully some new garrison/MPs will let me reduce the lux rate. I leave science off, we will hopefully get currency sooner than 44 turns one way or another. We still have 99g, so we can afford the deficit for a few turns, anyway. Im expecting (hoping) China wont stay in the war the full 20, but well see what happens.
OK, after all that, Im ready to begin!
IBT: At Izmit, the wounded NuMerc takes out our warrior without taking a scratch. Worse, they steal 4g.
Istanbul-Settler>spear, Edrine-Archer>spear, Iznik-Galley>spear, Uskadar-Galley>warrior, Antaly-Temple>spear, Kafa-Warrior>warrior.
(1) 530BC: Start by pulling workers back who are now in range of Izmit. I have an idea for a few of them Shuffle defenders forward, trying to get as many as possible to end the turn in a town, to make the MM less painful. Then I start on the towns, and Im able to get lux down to 20%, for a net loss of only 7gpt, and no clowns, although Bursa gets a taxman. China now has an extra silk for sale, but, um, theyre already getting all our gold. On East island, warriors fortify in towns, as we anxiously watch a Carthaginian galley sail along. I do use the Sinop canal to send a galley to the north coast, and the new one from Uskadar heads over as well. Our other new galley moves to join Sultana, to form a convoy for our settler next turn. Hmm, just noticed China settled a town on the South Iron island, near the gold hill, so the Iron is still available, if we hurry.
IBT: The Punic galley heads north into the fog, leaving our island alone. I may have to try and follow, assuming he knows where hes going? No attacks, though, which is always a Good Thing. Konya-Worker>worker.
(2) 510BC: Our convoy of the Sultana and escort heads south, with a Settler and warrior. Redistribute defenders/MPs again, and now Iznik needs a clown for a turn, but deficit is only 6. Move a couple workers up to Bursa. Our galley from East island tries to follow the trail of the Carthaginian galley, and spots a glimpse of a burgundy border before returning to calm waters, should be able to make the crossing next turn.
IBT: Not much happens, we see a NuMerc head west from Izmit.
(3) 490BC: Time for my bold worker plan, I move 2 spear and an archer from Bursa onto the silk square, then send 3 workers with a Road-To command, if we can hold it for a couple turns, that will be a nice help for our economy. Three other workers cut a forest near Istanbul, which will finish a spear next turn. Our exploring galley hits the jackpot, as it crosses the sea north to meet not one, but two civs!
A closer look at the map reveals one of the most resource-poor locations Ive seen in a while. No strategic resources, and only one luxury, which isnt connected any more (and being on the border with Carthage, might not get connected for a while!).
OK, no build swaps, so just some old-fashioned MM. My priority here was to get as much stuff to finish as I could, so THEN I could swap to defenders.
Istanbul-MM to get settler in 1
Edrine gets its archer
, its got one of our few barracks, and can regrow next turnBursa-Locked into FP for the foreseeable future (too bad, its another barracks city, but will be a good FP choice once we roll Carthage back
)Iznik-Steals a mine from Uskadar to finish Galley next turn, at no growth.
Uskadar-Pretty corrupt anyway, so it whips the galley.
Izmit-Looks like someones used the whip here before! Not much I can do, but change tax to clown.
Antayla-Whip the temple.
The rest of our towns are on track, good to see lots of workers on our new island, for future development. I did think about zeroing out one or two of the galleys, and then starting spears, but I hate to waste shields, and we need some more galleys for escorts and to find the other continent, we have to get into a brokering loop somehow.
Now to diplomacy. China is definitely skittish about joining us, but with some creative bookkeeping (100% tax), I see it is possible. I debate this a bit, but at this point, a dogpile on us is probably game over, whereas getting the two of them fighting each other is probably our best bet for pulling ourselves closer to the pack. The deciding factor was knowing Carthage had Currency, meaning they have a good bargaining chip to get China on their side if we dont act fast. I sign the alliance, for 2g and 32 gpt. After resetting luxuries to 40%, were running a 12 deficit, at least for this turn. I should be able to re-MM next turn after these builds complete, and hopefully some new garrison/MPs will let me reduce the lux rate. I leave science off, we will hopefully get currency sooner than 44 turns one way or another. We still have 99g, so we can afford the deficit for a few turns, anyway. Im expecting (hoping) China wont stay in the war the full 20, but well see what happens.
OK, after all that, Im ready to begin!
IBT: At Izmit, the wounded NuMerc takes out our warrior without taking a scratch. Worse, they steal 4g.
Istanbul-Settler>spear, Edrine-Archer>spear, Iznik-Galley>spear, Uskadar-Galley>warrior, Antaly-Temple>spear, Kafa-Warrior>warrior.
(1) 530BC: Start by pulling workers back who are now in range of Izmit. I have an idea for a few of them Shuffle defenders forward, trying to get as many as possible to end the turn in a town, to make the MM less painful. Then I start on the towns, and Im able to get lux down to 20%, for a net loss of only 7gpt, and no clowns, although Bursa gets a taxman. China now has an extra silk for sale, but, um, theyre already getting all our gold. On East island, warriors fortify in towns, as we anxiously watch a Carthaginian galley sail along. I do use the Sinop canal to send a galley to the north coast, and the new one from Uskadar heads over as well. Our other new galley moves to join Sultana, to form a convoy for our settler next turn. Hmm, just noticed China settled a town on the South Iron island, near the gold hill, so the Iron is still available, if we hurry.
IBT: The Punic galley heads north into the fog, leaving our island alone. I may have to try and follow, assuming he knows where hes going? No attacks, though, which is always a Good Thing. Konya-Worker>worker.
(2) 510BC: Our convoy of the Sultana and escort heads south, with a Settler and warrior. Redistribute defenders/MPs again, and now Iznik needs a clown for a turn, but deficit is only 6. Move a couple workers up to Bursa. Our galley from East island tries to follow the trail of the Carthaginian galley, and spots a glimpse of a burgundy border before returning to calm waters, should be able to make the crossing next turn.
IBT: Not much happens, we see a NuMerc head west from Izmit.
(3) 490BC: Time for my bold worker plan, I move 2 spear and an archer from Bursa onto the silk square, then send 3 workers with a Road-To command, if we can hold it for a couple turns, that will be a nice help for our economy. Three other workers cut a forest near Istanbul, which will finish a spear next turn. Our exploring galley hits the jackpot, as it crosses the sea north to meet not one, but two civs!
Attachments
Justus II
General Staff
The bad news
We are a backward people. Both Theo and Henry are wearing Medieval garb, and up 4 techs (at least), including Republic. Powerwise, they are behind China and Carthage, but very advanced in techs. This could be bad, because we know Carthage has already made contact, although I cant see what techs Hannibal has since he still wont talk to me. China hasnt met them yet, and because of the alliance cant trade with Hannibal yet, so we do have a good brokering opportunity, if we werent on the verge of bankruptcy. Actually, were not in too bad a shape to keep solvent, still have 69g, and only losing 5 this turn, but certainly no room for brokering. Well have to wait and see what develops.
IBT: NuMerc attacks our silk road operation, and kills a spear, but loses 2hp. Henry asks us to leave his territorial waters. Aydin finishes the barracks, starts a spear.
(4) 470BC: Shift another spear to the silk farm, some more taxman shuffling.
IBT: Sword moves Leptis Magna to attack the silk, but our spear defeats him. Edrine-Archer>spear.
(5) 450BC: The Sultana drops off her passengers adjacent to the Iron Mountain, we will get to claim it. Hmm, China has Republic, but still lacks the other Ancient techs, and has some cash, so hopefully that means he still doesnt have contact, just researched it himself. Continue to explore.
IBT: Finally see movement on the southern front, as Carthage moves a sword toward some workers NE of Edrine. China continues to send troops that way, but havent seen any action yet. Sinope: Worker>worker, Silk road is done!
(6) 430BC: Salonika is founded adjacent to Iron mountain, starts on a warrior. Sultana heads back for workers. An archer moves from Edrine to kill the sword. We can keep full employment at a loss of 4, with 52g left, so we should be OK until the alliance runs out. We could actually run a surplus if we drop luxuries to 0, and hired a couple taxmen, but Id rather maintain production right now. Were in a bit of a catch-22 tech-wise. We can talk to Hannibal now, and he has the same techs as the new continent. There are brokering opportunities between the new world and China, but we dont have any cash until the alliance ends. However, if the alliance ends with peace between Hannibal and Mao, then he will be able to trade for the techs anyway. Not sure what the best solution is. There might be a small window to jump in the turn the alliance ends.
IBT: A NuMerc and Sword die attacking our Silk farm. Iznik-Spear>spear, Ankara-Worker>spear.
(7) 410BC: Very little movement, Id like to try and retake Izmit, but 3 Archers vs. NuMercs is probably not good odds, so I hold off and defend at the Silk forest. Galleys continue to explore.
IBT: Mao kicks the Sultana out of his waters, without even giving us the option to leave. Istanbul-Spear>spear, Edrine-spear>spear, Konya-worker>worker, Carthage starts Great Library, Hanging Gardens (ugh, Monarchy).
(8) 390BC: Hmm, looks like China could be trying to poach our horses, not good. Ankara is working on a setter, aided by a forest chop, but still 19 turns away. China still doesnt have any new techs. Carthage will now take peace strait up, in fact they will throw in their 5g, but we would have to break the alliance to do it.
IBT: Carthage loses a sword in the north, but kills a spear in the south. Portugal establishes an embassy with us.
(9) 370BC: I am able to get an ROP with China straight up, we need to be able to sail through their culture to get to and from our Iron city, and it may speed up some of their swords headed to Carthage. Good news, that galley headed south, the horses might be safe. An archer kills the offending sword in the south. Continue exploring, Carthage has an island city with Cadiz, that recently experienced a volcano eruption. Aww.
IBT: Carthage sends a sword and kills a spear at the Silk farm. Antayla-spear>spear. China starts on Temple of Artemis, but Carthage finishes it (in Carthage), starting a cascade. Byzantine starts on Great Library, H.Gardens, and Great Wall, Portugal swaps to Library, Gardens, and LEONARDOS WORKSHOP!! :eep: I guess we are behind the times, if they have Invention already.
(10) 350BC: Not much changed, I just checked the cities and did some worker moves. We have 3 archers at the silk forest that could hit his wounded sword, but then wed have to cover them, which would be tough, so Ill leave that for the next leader. Also, the Sultana arrived off the port at Iznik, I planned on loading some workers when they are free to head to Salonika and start roading the iron. Theres also a couple forests there, to speed a harbor. China has Polytheism now, dont know about Monarchy or anything beyond that, but I confirmed they dont have contact with Portugal yet, since Portugal built the embassy, I can see theyre not listed.
We are still in the catch-22. The only real option I see, (not that Im recommending it) would be to make a separate peace, breaking the alliance, then use the freed payment money to buy a tech and do a 2-fer with China for the second tech. Problems are that it breaks our rep with China (but wouldnt affect our rep with the two that havent met China, and would be overlooked for that turn by Carthage, since theyre still at war), and if we need to add a couple gpt to a 2-fer deal with China, we wont be able to. Like I said, I wouldnt recommend it, but it is an option. Otherwise, we ride out the next 10 turns, (sooner if China makes peace on their own), and then see what we can work out. Root for someone on our continent to build the Library, and try and grab it when were stronger?
Good news is FP is due in 8, and we are only losing 2gpt even at 20% lux, everyone working but a corrupt taxman on the island. And the war fronts have been pretty stable, a war of attrition were weve come out slightly ahead. We also got a lot of terrain worked, but need more, and need to think about getting some infrastructure in place.
You definitely got me into a challenge!!
Our lands:
Actually, were not in too bad a shape to keep solvent, still have 69g, and only losing 5 this turn, but certainly no room for brokering. Well have to wait and see what develops. IBT: NuMerc attacks our silk road operation, and kills a spear, but loses 2hp. Henry asks us to leave his territorial waters. Aydin finishes the barracks, starts a spear.
(4) 470BC: Shift another spear to the silk farm, some more taxman shuffling.
IBT: Sword moves Leptis Magna to attack the silk, but our spear defeats him. Edrine-Archer>spear.
(5) 450BC: The Sultana drops off her passengers adjacent to the Iron Mountain, we will get to claim it. Hmm, China has Republic, but still lacks the other Ancient techs, and has some cash, so hopefully that means he still doesnt have contact, just researched it himself. Continue to explore.
IBT: Finally see movement on the southern front, as Carthage moves a sword toward some workers NE of Edrine. China continues to send troops that way, but havent seen any action yet. Sinope: Worker>worker, Silk road is done!
(6) 430BC: Salonika is founded adjacent to Iron mountain, starts on a warrior. Sultana heads back for workers. An archer moves from Edrine to kill the sword. We can keep full employment at a loss of 4, with 52g left, so we should be OK until the alliance runs out. We could actually run a surplus if we drop luxuries to 0, and hired a couple taxmen, but Id rather maintain production right now. Were in a bit of a catch-22 tech-wise. We can talk to Hannibal now, and he has the same techs as the new continent. There are brokering opportunities between the new world and China, but we dont have any cash until the alliance ends. However, if the alliance ends with peace between Hannibal and Mao, then he will be able to trade for the techs anyway. Not sure what the best solution is. There might be a small window to jump in the turn the alliance ends.
IBT: A NuMerc and Sword die attacking our Silk farm. Iznik-Spear>spear, Ankara-Worker>spear.
(7) 410BC: Very little movement, Id like to try and retake Izmit, but 3 Archers vs. NuMercs is probably not good odds, so I hold off and defend at the Silk forest. Galleys continue to explore.
IBT: Mao kicks the Sultana out of his waters, without even giving us the option to leave. Istanbul-Spear>spear, Edrine-spear>spear, Konya-worker>worker, Carthage starts Great Library, Hanging Gardens (ugh, Monarchy).
(8) 390BC: Hmm, looks like China could be trying to poach our horses, not good. Ankara is working on a setter, aided by a forest chop, but still 19 turns away. China still doesnt have any new techs. Carthage will now take peace strait up, in fact they will throw in their 5g, but we would have to break the alliance to do it.
IBT: Carthage loses a sword in the north, but kills a spear in the south. Portugal establishes an embassy with us.
(9) 370BC: I am able to get an ROP with China straight up, we need to be able to sail through their culture to get to and from our Iron city, and it may speed up some of their swords headed to Carthage. Good news, that galley headed south, the horses might be safe. An archer kills the offending sword in the south. Continue exploring, Carthage has an island city with Cadiz, that recently experienced a volcano eruption. Aww.
IBT: Carthage sends a sword and kills a spear at the Silk farm. Antayla-spear>spear. China starts on Temple of Artemis, but Carthage finishes it (in Carthage), starting a cascade. Byzantine starts on Great Library, H.Gardens, and Great Wall, Portugal swaps to Library, Gardens, and LEONARDOS WORKSHOP!! :eep: I guess we are behind the times, if they have Invention already.
(10) 350BC: Not much changed, I just checked the cities and did some worker moves. We have 3 archers at the silk forest that could hit his wounded sword, but then wed have to cover them, which would be tough, so Ill leave that for the next leader. Also, the Sultana arrived off the port at Iznik, I planned on loading some workers when they are free to head to Salonika and start roading the iron. Theres also a couple forests there, to speed a harbor. China has Polytheism now, dont know about Monarchy or anything beyond that, but I confirmed they dont have contact with Portugal yet, since Portugal built the embassy, I can see theyre not listed.
We are still in the catch-22. The only real option I see, (not that Im recommending it) would be to make a separate peace, breaking the alliance, then use the freed payment money to buy a tech and do a 2-fer with China for the second tech. Problems are that it breaks our rep with China (but wouldnt affect our rep with the two that havent met China, and would be overlooked for that turn by Carthage, since theyre still at war), and if we need to add a couple gpt to a 2-fer deal with China, we wont be able to. Like I said, I wouldnt recommend it, but it is an option. Otherwise, we ride out the next 10 turns, (sooner if China makes peace on their own), and then see what we can work out. Root for someone on our continent to build the Library, and try and grab it when were stronger?
Good news is FP is due in 8, and we are only losing 2gpt even at 20% lux, everyone working but a corrupt taxman on the island. And the war fronts have been pretty stable, a war of attrition were weve come out slightly ahead. We also got a lot of terrain worked, but need more, and need to think about getting some infrastructure in place.
You definitely got me into a challenge!!
Our lands:
Attachments
Justus II
General Staff
Team 2.1
grahamiam <- Up
microbe < - On Deck
gozpel < - Working for a living
(Got to take care of priorities!)
Bede
Justus II <- just played
And the save:
grahamiam <- Up
microbe < - On Deck
gozpel < - Working for a living
(Got to take care of priorities!)Bede
Justus II <- just played
And the save:
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
As of breaking the alliance:
Will it really hurt our rep? We are paying gpt and didn't get any hard good, so I think we should be able to break it without rep being hurt. The only thing is that China might get furious with us, but who cares!
I say screw China!
Will it really hurt our rep? We are paying gpt and didn't get any hard good, so I think we should be able to break it without rep being hurt. The only thing is that China might get furious with us, but who cares!
I say screw China!
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
nice set justus 
looks like we got the right guy for this job 
i got it but probably won't finish till tomorrow night.
looks like we got the right guy for this job i got it but probably won't finish till tomorrow night.
Justus II
General Staff
I'm not entirely sure, I don't think it will break our Trading rep, per se, but I know it will affect our ability to make alliances in the future, obviously, and will certainly affect their attitude in the short term. But you're right, there's no resources or hard goods involved, so our Trading rep should be OK. The advantage, of course, is that's about the only way to get the tech brokering in, as by doing it on our turn, we have that trading window. If we wait for the deal to expire, or for China to make a seperate peace, then it would happen on the inter-turn, and they would probably trade amongst themselves. The key would be to get Currency, then broker it to China for Poly and/or Horseback, so we can get into the next age, and hopefully then use our free tech to trade for Republic. (Lot of hopefully's, there)
(Lot of hopefully's, there)
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
imho, we are not too far behind tech wise, however, considering our resourse poor land, we should try not to get much further behind. we could get into the position where we have nothing to negociate and no way to extract tech's from others except by steals. At least we still have the chance to use the tech slingshot to get something from China. Getting peace and then trading up to the MA may be the way to go.
If we break the alliance and do this, then do not expect to be able to give gpt deals to buy techs. we will have to save large sums to buy them.
If we break the alliance and do this, then do not expect to be able to give gpt deals to buy techs. we will have to save large sums to buy them.
Just another small nitpick from the sidelines on an otherwise great game.
During Bede's last turn, when Carthage cut the lines to the silks, you used
scroll ahead to prevent the rioting.
Wouldn't this be considered to be a nono for this variant ?
( I know it comes instinctively,... )
During Bede's last turn, when Carthage cut the lines to the silks, you used
scroll ahead to prevent the rioting.
Wouldn't this be considered to be a nono for this variant ?
( I know it comes instinctively,... )
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