grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
2 loops thru the cycle and 2 violations alreadyGrimjack said:
nice catch grimjack. i guess we all need to get used to these stringent rules 
Bugs 2.1 The Gauntlet Revisited
- Thread starter Sir Bugsy
- Start date
nice catch grimjack. i guess we all need to get used to these stringent rules 
Justus II
General Staff
grahamiam said:
I am nearly certain that breaking the alliance will only impact our gpt reputation with China, not the other powers. Remember in RBC14, we made an early peace with Portugal, which broke our alliances, but were still able to make gpt deals.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
true, i was basing this on a PTW game (coincidently, bugs1) so maybe things changed in C3C. we will soon find outJustus II said:
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i don't have anything available right now to experiment. i can dig thru my cotm1 game but i don't remember signing any alliances for gpt. what Justus described in regards to RBC14C is true. I and everyone else thought our rep was screwed but we did ok. I can't remember if we ever paid gpt for a tech after that though. I think I'll look thru that thread for a post to see.microbe said:
edit: we seemed to have been able to sell techs for gpt as expected. however, we got a tech lead in that game and never had to buy one for gpt.
Justus II
General Staff
I seem to remember making an offer, just to see if we couldm and was able to. I guess we'll all learn! At this point, it's probably worth the gamble, we need to take some gambles to get out of this tech hole.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Preflight check: Ok, time to check for Peace with Carthage. The best deal is peace with him paying us 1gpt. Done.
Trades: Carthage: Currency for 11gpt and 31g
China: HBR and 102g for Currency
Byz: Poly for 8gpt and 103g (not the best deal but I dont want to give any more to Carthage)
We draw Engineering as our free tech
Carthage: Spices, Wines, 13gpt and 39g for Engineering
China: Republic for Engineering
We can research Mono in 35T at 70% and +1gpt which is pretty bad. No settlers being built soon to grab the horses so I decide to revolt to Republic (cant be worse than despot but I cant get Monarch atm). We are going to have to pay 46gpt in unit support but builds will be faster. Christ, we get a 7 turn anarchy! We cant buy a break with this game
Scroll thru the towns to make sure we dont get any riots. We are losing 3gpt
IBT: Despite what I saw before the end of last turn, Edrine still riots. I know that city had 2 happy and 1 sad at the end of the turn.
T1: 330BC Shore up the defenses in Bursa with 1 spear and 1 archer that are on the silks. Spear in Iznik is going to Konya to shore up Chinese border. 2 archers remain on the silks. Change a couple of clowns to taxman to make sure we dont lose more money and now we make +5gpt
T2: 310BC Ankara grew so I make the unhappy citz there a taxman as well (+7gpt). Ships explore some more (trying to find Korea).
Portugal is up Monarchy and Fued. (and invention)
Carthage up Monarchy
Byz are up Monarchy and Fued
China is even.
T3: 290BC Find Korean border but a barb galley is threatening.
IBT: Galley near Korea is redlined but survives. Carthage and China seem to be struggling over Tsingtao. A Carthaginian galley is suspiciously close to our horse island
T4: 270BC Meet Korea. Then dont seem to know anyone as they are down Poly, Republic, and Construction. Unfortunately, all they have is 6g.
IBT: Korea is building the Glib.
T5: 250BC Move some units around. There is no way I can block a settler from Carthage right now.
IBT: Mao demands 22g; Carthage lands an NM and a settler near our horse
T6: 230BC Move warriors on top of horse and move some galleys.
IBT: Carthage settles on the spot. We become a Republic; Portugal completes the Glib.
T7: 210BC Carthage now up Fued
IBT: Uskudar warrior ->Lib; Konya worker -> Lib; Kafa warrior -> harbor; Chinese are building the Great Wall and they finish it in Beijing; Byz are building HG, Leonardos; Byz complete HG;
T8: 190BC Move some more workers. Warrior near horses pulls back.
IBT: Iznik spear -> library; Carthage is building Leonardos
T9: 170BC
Aydin spear -> library
T10: 150BC Disband a warrior in Aydin to gain some income. Try to extract 22g out of Korea but they refuse, turning furious.
Notes: we are doing min. research on Mono but were sure to be beaten. It may make the most sense to shutoff research right now but that will only net us +8gpt more. Rep seems to be ok with everyone except China
Portugal has over 1200g.
Also, we should disband warriors as more spears come online.
Trades: Carthage: Currency for 11gpt and 31g
China: HBR and 102g for Currency
Byz: Poly for 8gpt and 103g (not the best deal but I dont want to give any more to Carthage)
We draw Engineering as our free tech
Carthage: Spices, Wines, 13gpt and 39g for Engineering
China: Republic for Engineering
We can research Mono in 35T at 70% and +1gpt which is pretty bad. No settlers being built soon to grab the horses so I decide to revolt to Republic (cant be worse than despot but I cant get Monarch atm). We are going to have to pay 46gpt in unit support but builds will be faster. Christ, we get a 7 turn anarchy! We cant buy a break with this game
Scroll thru the towns to make sure we dont get any riots. We are losing 3gptIBT: Despite what I saw before the end of last turn, Edrine still riots. I know that city had 2 happy and 1 sad at the end of the turn.
T1: 330BC Shore up the defenses in Bursa with 1 spear and 1 archer that are on the silks. Spear in Iznik is going to Konya to shore up Chinese border. 2 archers remain on the silks. Change a couple of clowns to taxman to make sure we dont lose more money and now we make +5gpt
T2: 310BC Ankara grew so I make the unhappy citz there a taxman as well (+7gpt). Ships explore some more (trying to find Korea).
Portugal is up Monarchy and Fued. (and invention)
Carthage up Monarchy
Byz are up Monarchy and Fued
China is even.
T3: 290BC Find Korean border but a barb galley is threatening.
IBT: Galley near Korea is redlined but survives. Carthage and China seem to be struggling over Tsingtao. A Carthaginian galley is suspiciously close to our horse island
T4: 270BC Meet Korea. Then dont seem to know anyone as they are down Poly, Republic, and Construction. Unfortunately, all they have is 6g.
IBT: Korea is building the Glib.
T5: 250BC Move some units around. There is no way I can block a settler from Carthage right now.
IBT: Mao demands 22g; Carthage lands an NM and a settler near our horse
T6: 230BC Move warriors on top of horse and move some galleys.
IBT: Carthage settles on the spot. We become a Republic; Portugal completes the Glib.
T7: 210BC Carthage now up Fued
IBT: Uskudar warrior ->Lib; Konya worker -> Lib; Kafa warrior -> harbor; Chinese are building the Great Wall and they finish it in Beijing; Byz are building HG, Leonardos; Byz complete HG;
T8: 190BC Move some more workers. Warrior near horses pulls back.
IBT: Iznik spear -> library; Carthage is building Leonardos
T9: 170BC
Aydin spear -> library
T10: 150BC Disband a warrior in Aydin to gain some income. Try to extract 22g out of Korea but they refuse, turning furious.
Notes: we are doing min. research on Mono but were sure to be beaten. It may make the most sense to shutoff research right now but that will only net us +8gpt more. Rep seems to be ok with everyone except China
Portugal has over 1200g.
Also, we should disband warriors as more spears come online.
Justus II
General Staff
Good trading, Grahamiam, looks like the peace deal paid off, and at minimal cost. Three techs, including getting us a government. 7 turns wasn't great, but well worth it to get out of despotism. I agree with shutting down research, or at least switch to just a scientist, which would still free up the gpt, and (eventually) get us one tech we wouldn't have to buy.
I'm not sure from the description, and can't open the save right now, but did Carthage take the horses, or settle on the coast? The cattle city on the island was working on a settler, if we're a republic we should be able to cash-rush whatever shields are left on it to get it done and maybe still make a claim on the horses.
7 turns wasn't great, but well worth it to get out of despotism. I agree with shutting down research, or at least switch to just a scientist, which would still free up the gpt, and (eventually) get us one tech we wouldn't have to buy. I'm not sure from the description, and can't open the save right now, but did Carthage take the horses, or settle on the coast? The cattle city on the island was working on a settler, if we're a republic we should be able to cash-rush whatever shields are left on it to get it done and maybe still make a claim on the horses.
Nicely done, JII and grahamian.
Concur with the suggestion to hire a scientist, rather than spend the gold. I'm not so sure about disbanding the warriors as the weaker we appear the more likely we will be attacked again. Even cardboard cutouts help.
Concur with the suggestion to hire a scientist, rather than spend the gold. I'm not so sure about disbanding the warriors as the weaker we appear the more likely we will be attacked again. Even cardboard cutouts help.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
carthage settled 1tile NE of the horses so there is no chance of pinching it with a settler.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
then we need more cities. pack them in tight as required. right now we're paying 56gpt in unit upkeep. the best thing we could do is buy workers and merge ours into the cities. not sure how many we could buy quickly.Bede said:I'm not so sure about disbanding the warriors as the weaker we appear the more likely we will be attacked again. Even cardboard cutouts help.
Justus II
General Staff
grahamiam said:
Buying workers is also against the variant rules!
I think disbanding a few reg warriors, as we build spears/pikes to replace them, is fine, but I would agree we may just have to accept the unit support costs for a while. The removal of the despotism penalty will allow our cities to grow much more rapidly, increasing our income and eventually getting a few more to size 7, which is more support and more income. Settling additional cities is also a good option, in particular I would look at rushing a couple settlers from the otherwise corrupt island cities, if we can.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
preturn: indeed our rep is screwed with China. Does it mean it's broken for others as well??? I cannot say no for sure, as the only other AI that knows China is Carthage, which wouldn't care since it's at war with China. We'll find out once the war is over.
Chinese military is about the same size. Hint hint..
We have a town empty - please, never leave it like that! It greatly increases the chance that AI would sneak attack us. I move a warrior to cover it.
It seems we'll only have iron..
I convert a clown to scientist and drop sci to 0. Our income rises to 10gpt instead of 2.
Why are we building libraries? Are we really going to do self-research? No way. But I cannot change the builds..
(1)130BC: Portugal and Byzantines know Monotheism.
(2)110BC: I start market in our capital.
(3)90BC: Chinese army now is stronger than us.
We have to raise lux to 20 as capital grows.
IBT FP is completed. Start market. Net income increases about 5gpt.
(4)70BC: Korea just entered Middle Ages and got Feudalism, while lacking Engineering!
But the bad news is it asks for Engineering+101g(almost all our gold)+22gpt, while we can only make +18gpt.
I drop the lux to 0 to make the deal, and sell Feudalism to China for Monarchy + 13g (too cheap!). Sell Monarchy back to Korea for 101g+11gpt. So we actually get Feudalism for about 11gpt.
We are now making 7gpt. Carthage only has Monotheism, but Portugal/Byzantines have Invention as well.
I also disband a reg warrior.
(5)50BC: Disband our wounded galley.
IBT Ankara riots. Palace expansion.
(6)30BC: have to raise lux to 10 making 5gpt.
(7)10BC: ZZZ
IBT Carthage and China sign peace. But our rep seems to be all right with Carthage.
(8)10AD: Byzantines have musketmen.
IBT Portugal starts Knights Templar.
(9)30AD: Byzantines complete Sun Tzu's. Portugal completes Knights Templar.
(10)50AD: lux deal expires and I raise it to 30. We are 163g making 0gpt.
I hope our income will improve with markets completed.
Note: the iron city. During my turns it built a warrior but it rioted and then dropped the pop back to 1.. It's building a worker now but we should switch to wealth to restart it in about 6 turns or to complete the worker at the turn it grows, or maybe we should ship over a worker to connect the iron asap so we could build some better units (pikes!).
Also I didn't complete the last turn. Something happened tonight that distracted me that I made such mistakes.
Chinese military is about the same size. Hint hint..
We have a town empty - please, never leave it like that! It greatly increases the chance that AI would sneak attack us. I move a warrior to cover it.
It seems we'll only have iron..
I convert a clown to scientist and drop sci to 0. Our income rises to 10gpt instead of 2.
Why are we building libraries? Are we really going to do self-research? No way. But I cannot change the builds..
(1)130BC: Portugal and Byzantines know Monotheism.
(2)110BC: I start market in our capital.
(3)90BC: Chinese army now is stronger than us.
We have to raise lux to 20 as capital grows.
IBT FP is completed. Start market. Net income increases about 5gpt.
(4)70BC: Korea just entered Middle Ages and got Feudalism, while lacking Engineering!
But the bad news is it asks for Engineering+101g(almost all our gold)+22gpt, while we can only make +18gpt.
I drop the lux to 0 to make the deal, and sell Feudalism to China for Monarchy + 13g (too cheap!). Sell Monarchy back to Korea for 101g+11gpt. So we actually get Feudalism for about 11gpt.
We are now making 7gpt. Carthage only has Monotheism, but Portugal/Byzantines have Invention as well.
I also disband a reg warrior.
(5)50BC: Disband our wounded galley.
IBT Ankara riots. Palace expansion.
(6)30BC: have to raise lux to 10 making 5gpt.
(7)10BC: ZZZ
IBT Carthage and China sign peace.
But our rep seems to be all right with Carthage.(8)10AD: Byzantines have musketmen.
IBT Portugal starts Knights Templar.
(9)30AD: Byzantines complete Sun Tzu's. Portugal completes Knights Templar.
(10)50AD: lux deal expires and I raise it to 30. We are 163g making 0gpt.
I hope our income will improve with markets completed.
Note: the iron city. During my turns it built a warrior but it rioted and then dropped the pop back to 1.
. It's building a worker now but we should switch to wealth to restart it in about 6 turns or to complete the worker at the turn it grows, or maybe we should ship over a worker to connect the iron asap so we could build some better units (pikes!).Also I didn't complete the last turn. Something happened tonight that distracted me that I made such mistakes.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
ok, microbe, hope everything is ok. i was building the libraries because we need culture and they are cheaper than temples (40s vs 60s). i probably should have done a mix of libraries and markets.
Team 2.1
grahamiam
microbe <- just played
gozpel <-UP
Bede <- on deck
Justus II
@Bede, gozpel expressed interest in playing on weekends but not sure if he'll have time here. give him 24hrs or so and then take it if he doesn't show up.
Team 2.1
grahamiam
microbe <- just played
gozpel <-UP
Bede <- on deck
Justus II
@Bede, gozpel expressed interest in playing on weekends but not sure if he'll have time here. give him 24hrs or so and then take it if he doesn't show up.
0-50AD
Iron won't get from the island to the mainland without harbors on both sides, so start harbors on the mainland and both islands.
1-70AD
Lower the lux tax and hire citizens producing too much food as clowns, scientists or taxmen withoug changing build completion times. Once everyone has settled into their new assignments net income rises 6gpt.
Mishandle the crippled galley and it sinks. Income goes up by 2gpt.
2-90AD
Discover the Byzantines have muskets in the garrisons.
Open an embassy with Carthage. Hannibal will sell wine for 10gpt, but the hooch is only worth 8gpt right now, so will let it pass until the markets get built.
3-110AD
With the market at Istanbul close the wines deal with Hannibal for 10gpt. It lets me put one citizen back to productive work but that's all.
China has now learned Invention.
Portugal declares war on Carthage.
4-130
Drop worker off on iron mountain.
5-150
Swampin'
6-170
More swampin'
Portugal builds Leo's Workshop.
7-10 170-250AD
Not much to report. Spears building in Bursa and Istanbul at 10-spt in each. Some jungle has been cleared. and mined. Spent a lot of time fiddling citizen assignments to keep production and income as high as possible.
A galley has dropped two more workers off on the iron mountain. They need orders. Aother galley is cruisin' the Carthage coast trying to figure out what the Portugee thinks he is up to, or what his progress maght be.
Our happiness problems are now coming from the island cities which are not connected to the luxuries we have. Harbors are building in all of them.
Hannibal is now gracious, by the way but we can't make gpt deals with him and he refers to our dealings with China. As do Theodora and Henry. Only Wang Kon will consider gpt as he doesn't know Mao yet.
Over to you, Justus!
Team 2.1
Justus II<-UP
grahamiam
microbe
gozpel <-requested leave
Bede <- played
Iron won't get from the island to the mainland without harbors on both sides, so start harbors on the mainland and both islands.
1-70AD
Lower the lux tax and hire citizens producing too much food as clowns, scientists or taxmen withoug changing build completion times. Once everyone has settled into their new assignments net income rises 6gpt.
Mishandle the crippled galley and it sinks. Income goes up by 2gpt.
2-90AD
Discover the Byzantines have muskets in the garrisons.
Open an embassy with Carthage. Hannibal will sell wine for 10gpt, but the hooch is only worth 8gpt right now, so will let it pass until the markets get built.
3-110AD
With the market at Istanbul close the wines deal with Hannibal for 10gpt. It lets me put one citizen back to productive work but that's all.
China has now learned Invention.
Portugal declares war on Carthage.
4-130
Drop worker off on iron mountain.
5-150
Swampin'
6-170
More swampin'
Portugal builds Leo's Workshop.
7-10 170-250AD
Not much to report. Spears building in Bursa and Istanbul at 10-spt in each. Some jungle has been cleared. and mined. Spent a lot of time fiddling citizen assignments to keep production and income as high as possible.
A galley has dropped two more workers off on the iron mountain. They need orders. Aother galley is cruisin' the Carthage coast trying to figure out what the Portugee thinks he is up to, or what his progress maght be.
Our happiness problems are now coming from the island cities which are not connected to the luxuries we have. Harbors are building in all of them.
Hannibal is now gracious, by the way but we can't make gpt deals with him and he refers to our dealings with China. As do Theodora and Henry. Only Wang Kon will consider gpt as he doesn't know Mao yet.
Over to you, Justus!
Team 2.1
Justus II<-UP
grahamiam
microbe
gozpel <-requested leave
Bede <- played
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