Bugs are Take2's fault, not Sid's!

[Distraction]

All right, many of us (including me) have experienced bugs in Civ4. We have every right to be angry, but I think some of you are misplacing your anger. I believe the bugs are from Take2 rushing to get the game out before the Christmas shopping season- no matter how many bugs there are in it.

Now, from the bit of Civ4 we can play, we can tell it’s a great game. It’s only the bugs that ruin it for some of us. Sid Meier and Firaxis did a great job with the making of the game, and almost certainly would have continued bug testing it until all major ones were squashed. After all, if they only wanted to milk Civ4 they would have just given us Civ3 with 3D graphics. So, we can be fairly certain that Firaxis wanted to make the game as great as it could be. But then, why so many bugs?

Simple, really: Take2 rushed them. After all, Firaxis makes the game; it's Take2 who tells them when to release it. If Sid had complained and asked for more time, Take2 wouldn't care. After all, they're a corporation, and their only care is that they make money. What with the 'Hot Coffee' fiasco and the PSP GTA failing, they needed to get a game out for the Christmas season, or it would look like hey lost money and their stocks would fall.

It's not like Take2 hasn't done this before. Ever heard of Battlecruiser 3000 AD? It is considered the buggiest game of all time. Take2 shipped it when it was barely a beta versions. Why wouldn't they do it again?

So, really the moral of the story is Firaxis = Good, Take2 = Evil.

 

[Jecrell]

I remember reading that Sid didn't even participate in the programming of Civ IV.

 

[Distraction]

I remember reading that Sid didn't even participate in the programming of Civ IV.

Yeah, I heard that too. But I'd expect he had something at least to do with overseeing it, or else his name wouldn't be on the cover.

 

[DrD]

Except that Christmas is almost 2 months away. they could have waited another month and still had it out in plenty of time for the holidays.

 

[Distraction]

Except that Christmas is almost 2 months away. they could have waited another month and still had it out in plenty of time for the holidays.

Don't forget that November is the big holiday shopping month. Missing even half of November would have damaged sales. And Take2 doesn't want to lose sales.

 

[PrimeAPE]

Sooo....does this mean we'll have a complete patch in a month?

 

[Distraction]

Sooo....does this mean we'll have a complete patch in a month?

I hope so. No real way to tell, though.

 

[!scorpion]

All right, many of us (including me) have experienced bugs in Civ4. We have every right to be angry, but I think some of you are misplacing your anger. I believe the bugs are from Take2 rushing to get the game out before the Christmas shopping season- no matter how many bugs there are in it.

Now, from the bit of Civ4 we can play, we can tell it’s a great game. It’s only the bugs that ruin it for some of us. Sid Meier and Firaxis did a great job with the making of the game, and almost certainly would have continued bug testing it until all major ones were squashed. After all, if they only wanted to milk Civ4 they would have just given us Civ3 with 3D graphics. So, we can be fairly certain that Firaxis wanted to make the game as great as it could be. But then, why so many bugs?

Simple, really: Take2 rushed them. After all, Firaxis makes the game; it's Take2 who tells them when to release it. If Sid had complained and asked for more time, Take2 wouldn't care. After all, they're a corporation, and their only care is that they make money. What with the 'Hot Coffee' fiasco and the PSP GTA failing, they needed to get a game out for the Christmas season, or it would look like hey lost money and their stocks would fall.

It's not like Take2 hasn't done this before. Ever heard of Battlecruiser 3000 AD? It is considered the buggiest game of all time. Take2 shipped it when it was barely a beta versions. Why wouldn't they do it again?

So, really the moral of the story is Firaxis = Good, Take2 = Evil.

Although I agree with you 100%, Sid can still be blamed for selling out. Just as George Lucas didn't want film studios telling him how to make his movies, he went independent. Sid should have done the same if he really cared about it.

 

[Distraction]

Although I agree with you 100%, Sid can still be blamed for selling out. Just as George Lucas didn't want people telling him how to make his movies, he went independent. Sid should have done the same if he really cared about it.

True, but I think Take2 owns both Firaxis and the Civilization series. So really, if he left, he wouldn't have Firaxis or the Civ series.

 

[Corbeau]

Take2 is probably my least-favorite publisher ever. And I've yet to pick up Civ4.

There was a once-great game series called Myth. After the original company got bought by microsoft, T2 picked up the rights to the series. They comissioned a group of programmers and fans of the original series to create Myth III.

Myth III rocked. Except for the fact that it was released a year too early. And then, after a month and one minor patch, T2 fired the entire team that worked on the game. It was all about getting it out the door.

And before you say that T2 might have fired the programmers for making a bad game, those same programmers worked on the game as a hobby for the next year. The game was great once patched, but by then no one was left to play it. And so the best real-time game series ever made died due to T2's greed.

The Civ4 situation doesn't surprise me at all. And I know that you can lay the blame at the feet of T2.

 

[Distraction]

Take2 is probably my least-favorite publisher ever. And I've yet to pick up Civ4.

There was a once-great game series called Myth. After the original company got bought by microsoft, T2 picked up the rights to the series. They comissioned a group of programmers and fans of the original series to create Myth III.

Myth III rocked. Except for the fact that it was released a year too early. And then, after a month and one minor patch, T2 fired the entire team that worked on the game. It was all about getting it out the door.

And before you say that T2 might have fired the programmers for making a bad game, those same programmers worked on the game as a hobby for the next year. The game was great once patched, but by then no one was left to play it. And so the best real-time game series ever made died due to T2's greed.

The Civ4 situation doesn't surprise me at all. And I know that you can lay the blame at the feet of T2.

Amen. I agree whole-heartedly.

 

[PyroStock]

Yeah, I heard that too. But I'd expect he had something at least to do with overseeing it, or else his name wouldn't be on the cover.

If I didn't mind the placement and someone paid me enough, I wouldn't mind my name being on the cover of Civ4.

 

[TheDervish]

And before you say that T2 might have fired the programmers for making a bad game, those same programmers worked on the game as a hobby for the next year. The game was great once patched, but by then no one was left to play it. And so the best real-time game series ever made died due to T2's greed.

The same thing happened to the KOTOR series last year when KOTOR 2 was released with bugs and missing story elements.

The same thing happened to the Quest For Glory series over 6 years ago when Sierra forced QFG5 into retail before the Coles said it was ready.

Sadly, these series breaking tactics have been executed by game publishers for a long time. So many new flavors of the month, they don't care when an old series is run into the ground by releasing an early beta game for retail.

 

[JiggleTheHandle]

I don't know if T2 owns Civ but Firaxis is an independent developer, not owned by any publisher, IIRC.

 

[Grunthex]

Except that Christmas is almost 2 months away. they could have waited another month and still had it out in plenty of time for the holidays.

Ah, but Take2s financial year-end is October 31st. Curious, no?

 

[necrosmith]

Bugs are usually management's fault. Now, it's easy to point fingers, but in their defense, they have to balance budgets, quality, deadlines, etc. This is not an easy task.

I'm pretty sure they tested it as much as they could within economic reason. As a poster stated in another thread, it is virtually impossible to virtually test a piece of software on this platform. There are soooo many different configurations out there, it is really impossible to reproduce an accurate sample of everything out there in their test labs.
Don't think for a minute the testers and developers aren't aware their code would have problems. Also don't think they aren't aware of most of the bugs that were present when the product was shipped.

It's the testers and/or developers job to advise management on the quality of the software. It is management's job to decide when to ship. Based on their business model and development plan, they decided it was time to ship.

In other words, people are going to have problems. Period.

Does it suck that we really pay to beta test their software? You bet.
However, that's really the nature of the beast.

In light of this, I think they did a pretty good job getting it as ready as they did. I'm sure they will be gathering feedback from all the disgruntled users and we'll have several series of patches to fix things.

I just want to encourage everyone to be patient and before you know it, we'll have a stable game.

Now, if they don't follow up with timely patches to address these issues, then we need to *****. However, thus far, the developers haven't done anything unusual or negligent or whatever.

If you want to play video games on the PC platform, this is what you have to deal with. It doesn't matter which game. If you want to play without bugs when a game is first shipped, play consoles or maybe on a Mac.

 

[ported]

This is ridiculous... every computer game has bugs to be worked out.

And either way, Sid allowed his name and likeness to be used/licensed for the game, and that's without knowing what level of dev he was involved with. Sorry, but he would have to take some responsibility, too (if a very small amount). It's kind of like hating Michael Jordan's cologne because you're allergic to it... the dude's "stamp of approval" is on it. Enabling your name for marketing assumes some amount of responsibility from most consumers' perspectives.

 

[Willem]

Sooo....does this mean we'll have a complete patch in a month?

More like a week or two. Firaxis has already stated that there will be a patch available soon, though they haven't given an exact release date yet. Nor will they reveal what the patch fixes.

 

[Zertez]

It is take2s fault for pushing it out before it is ready, but whoevers decision to keep the beta small is more at fault. The game is a lot of fun when you can play it, so they didnt have much to worry about any nda leaks ruining sales. Double the testers and many of the techical bugs could have been caught and possibly fixxed. There is only so many bugs you can catch in house, that is why it is so important to have a quality and nice size beta. The beta process should be a top priority for any developers and skimping only hurts the game. The gameplay is fun and very addictive so I believe Sid did his job

 

[Willem]

True, but I think Take2 owns both Firaxis and the Civilization series. So really, if he left, he wouldn't have Firaxis or the Civ series.

They don't own Firaxis, but they do own the rights to Civilization.