Bugs Bugs Bugs

[biggamer132]

Minor thing: Playing as the Romans on the Huge Medi. map, when I first made contact with Illyria, the text displayed was DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT or something along those lines.

 

[graywarden]

Minor thing: Playing as the Romans on the Huge Medi. map, when I first made contact with Illyria, the text displayed was DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT or something along those lines.

biggamer132,

got that one fixed a long time ago, but "somebody" keeps forgetting to compile fixes............ haahaa......

thanks, let me know if you see anymore, but also check out the more recent threads, a lot of those posted have been fixed, and will show up on the next patch.

 

[Mesix]

Nice to see something is being done about bowmen. How about giving Infantry/Legions access to at least the first city attack promotion?
Also I was wondering since so much emphasis is on the scenarios themselves what about implementing certain aspects of Rhyse's popular mod? I was thinking along the lines of having city names coded to their positions on the map itself and maybe the "independent" states as well to fill in some gaps. I also remember in the FFH scenario that shipped with BTS they had weather effects with the blizzards but I've yet to see this in any mods any consideration of that?
Any other aspects you gents will be adding and may be willing to divulge?

If you upgrade swordsmen or axeman to infantry, they will retain their promotions (including CR I-III. This is similar to Vanila and BTS, not a TAM addition.

 

[Mesix]

biggamer132,

got that one fixed a long time ago, but "somebody" keeps forgetting to compile fixes............ haahaa......

thanks, let me know if you see anymore, but also check out the more recent threads, a lot of those posted have been fixed, and will show up on the next patch.

When is the next patch coming?

Will it be a patch, or a complete reinstall?

 

[graywarden]

Mesix,

Im thinking its going to be a couple more weeks minimum before the next release. There is a LOT on the work table this time. And I would expect it to be a full release because of that.

FYI: The Romans are getting a heavy work over in a number of areas to help rebalance them.

 

[wayeward]

Minor thing: Playing as the Romans on the Huge Medi. map, when I first made contact with Illyria, the text displayed was DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT or something along those lines.

Yeah that one has been around for so long I just assumed it meant Teuta was hot for me

 

[wayeward]

Two other issues I have noticed, wanted to know what the plan was behind them:

1. Holy Cities: I raced the comp on Monarch and founded 4 of them (all of them ended up in one city!). Then built a few religious buildings, got the city pumping out prophets. Then started building the holy buildings for the religions in that city, after building two (for mesopotamian and Olympian gods) I was making about 200 gold a turn (because the religion had spread---one gold for every city with the religion), and I could afford any army size I wanted. Then I built the other holy buildings for the other religions and was making near 500 gold a turn and with Divine right was rush building EVERYthing. Personally, it seems a little too much gold, maybe one gold piece for every 4 cities that have the religion? Or make it dependent on map size? It gets out of hand quite fast, even with only one holy city.

2. Drafting. Ok, neat idea, but it seems to me that the comps (being on noble difficulty) abuse it beyond what would be realistic. Killing off 10 or more population for units that tip the balance too far in their favour when being seiged, or they go down to 1 population and then there is no point in taking the city since you will then end up burning it to the ground (since its 1 pop). Contrary to what I first thought when seeing this (which was to say "YEah! His people are going to be angry forever! He can't do . .. .. .. . now!"), IT made no difference, never helped me slowly overtake an opponent, they would just suddenly have tens of units available and there was nothing that could be done.

Still fun though, but even I can't stand myself when making that much money...

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Mesix,

Im thinking its going to be a couple more weeks minimum before the next release. There is a LOT on the work table this time. And I would expect it to be a full release because of that.

FYI: The Romans are getting a heavy work over in a number of areas to help rebalance them.

What are you doing with the Romans? I would recommend making them stronger actually, and redressing their homelands in terms of resources. Every time I play with them, I'm at war constantly on the East and West, and South, lol

 

[graywarden]

kwarriorpoet,

Romans are getting lots of attention!

 

[graywarden]

Two other issues I have noticed, wanted to know what the plan was behind them:

1. Holy Cities: I raced the comp on Monarch and founded 4 of them (all of them ended up in one city!). Then built a few religious buildings, got the city pumping out prophets. Then started building the holy buildings for the religions in that city, after building two (for mesopotamian and Olympian gods) I was making about 200 gold a turn (because the religion had spread---one gold for every city with the religion), and I could afford any army size I wanted. Then I built the other holy buildings for the other religions and was making near 500 gold a turn and with Divine right was rush building EVERYthing. Personally, it seems a little too much gold, maybe one gold piece for every 4 cities that have the religion? Or make it dependent on map size? It gets out of hand quite fast, even with only one holy city.

2. Drafting. Ok, neat idea, but it seems to me that the comps (being on noble difficulty) abuse it beyond what would be realistic. Killing off 10 or more population for units that tip the balance too far in their favour when being seiged, or they go down to 1 population and then there is no point in taking the city since you will then end up burning it to the ground (since its 1 pop). Contrary to what I first thought when seeing this (which was to say "YEah! His people are going to be angry forever! He can't do . .. .. .. . now!"), IT made no difference, never helped me slowly overtake an opponent, they would just suddenly have tens of units available and there was nothing that could be done.

Still fun though, but even I can't stand myself when making that much money...

Enjoy abusing bugs while you can, they will dissapear sometime soon..... haha

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

kwarriorpoet,

Romans are getting lots of attention!

:bow: My faith is in the TAM team!

 

[wayeward]

aren't the Romans pretty powerful already? I mean, they are one of a few civs that are Organized along with two other traits while the rest of the world (other than Hammarabi, Agamennon, and The Hittites) has to make do with 2 traits. In addition, getting to Iron working for them is akin to getting to Military training for everyone else. Those Legionaries are terrifying at that early stage with 8 strength.

or is the problem just the land they end up with?

 

[wayeward]

Lovely Teuta also has a conversation error when threatening me or refusing to submit to my demands, not sure which one it was now...that seems to happen a lot in this game.

Which brings something else to mind that I always wondered about. Why is it so damned hard to get open borders with anyone? Is it simply to make it hard to abuse your merchant vessels and trade barges? If so, why not just simply reduce the amount of gold that can be made via trade vessels?

If not, well, I don't know what to say. It seems as if you have to give the AI free resources of your own (because they usually will not trade extra ones with you regardless of how many they have) for about 10 dozen turns before they love you for giving them free stuff (which is counterproductive for any civ, not to mention unrealistic historically, unless you want to incorporate vassal kingdoms as an option in later releases). Sometimes they do not even give in then, and you have to go to war with them. Then, and only then, in my experience (on Monarch difficulty...is that the answer?) do they give in. Maybe it would be preferable to make the AI more receptive to possible trades with extra resources? Or is this something balanced with difficulty levels?

All I know is that it can make the game annoyingly difficult with international relations in the early game. For example, you might be in the early game with only two cities and be asked to go to war. You probably don't know how powerful they might be (score in the early game tends to mean little anyway), nor where they are even located, or how many cities/units they have. Well... you either go to war or make the person demanding that you help them an enemy for life basically, which means you will have to do a lot of giving of free stuff and/or going to war alongside them in the future in order to make them a possible trading partner. This is because a long war usually means that your neighbors will ask you repeatedly to help them, but would it be wrong to implement something into the AI that allows them to ask only once per war that they start? Or maybe it just seems as if they ask multiple times per war...

Sorry for the long post, its just an issue I have noticed with the mod (and not really noticed with too many others) and I wanted to know if there was any reasons why relations were as such.

That being said, I can't wait for the next release!

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

aren't the Romans pretty powerful already? I mean, they are one of a few civs that are Organized along with two other traits while the rest of the world (other than Hammarabi, Agamennon, and The Hittites) has to make do with 2 traits. In addition, getting to Iron working for them is akin to getting to Military training for everyone else. Those Legionaries are terrifying at that early stage with 8 strength.

or is the problem just the land they end up with?

It's a combination of the land, and how the AI uses them. I should fear Rome rather than ignore them. Shouldn't we all? Rome is like the least aggressive or one of the least aggressive civs in the game. I have more to fear from Carthage, Ilyria, Dacia, and Thrace than from Rome if I am playing Mycenae.

Come to think of it...unless I am playing the Celts or Ilyria, I have never been attacked by Rome...and their armies seem incapable of pushing much further than the first city they take...if they take it at all.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I think what you are referrencing wayeward, concerning AI diplomacy may be a hold over from the port to BTS. The engine is different, and previously there were many tweeks to diplomacy, so now it may be overly controlled?

In my games, too, though, I have had to guess who my friends and enemies would need to be and make the same decisions over and over again to foster good relationships. If you play on the pregenerated maps, this can be made easier since, you know roughly where everyone is.

 

[wayeward]

It's a combination of the land, and how the AI uses them. I should fear Rome rather than ignore them. Shouldn't we all? Rome is like the least aggressive or one of the least aggressive civs in the game. I have more to fear from Carthage, Ilyria, Dacia, and Thrace than from Rome if I am playing Mycenae.

Come to think of it...unless I am playing the Celts or Ilyria, I have never been attacked by Rome...and their armies seem incapable of pushing much further than the first city they take...if they take it at all.

Thats true, probably because before they get to Iron working they are nobody really. While other civs in the region get 5 strength copper units (and tend to abuse them in my games). I know the 5 strength units are a nice flavor and add some degree of historical tinge to the game, but the AI tend to abuse that advantage too often in my opinion. THen other civs, like the ROmans, never really get a foothold or even make it to iron working in some cases.

But in terms of balance, I was talking more about how a human player could exploit what Rome has to offer. I mean, if I survive the tech race to copper working and beyond (militarily that is) and make it to Iron working, I can hose just about anything the comp comes up with prior to Military Training, which is usually something the comp researches late in the game. Even Cavalry units and bowmen are a minor annoyance.

But thats hard to balance, ie. the desire to make a game historical but balanced for either AI or human players, wish you guys the best of luck in that!

 

[Mesix]

That actually sounds about right. Rome is one of the late blossoming civs in this mod. It should be a relatively small civ until its military might allows it to become the empire of history. It should not be automatic, the difficulty of surviving and thriving until Iron Working allows you to unload is a good balancing mechanic.

 

[wayeward]

That actually sounds about right. Rome is one of the late blossoming civs in this mod. It should be a relatively small civ until its military might allows it to become the empire of history. It should not be automatic, the difficulty of surviving and thriving until Iron Working allows you to unload is a good balancing mechanic.

Sorry to harp on this issue, but i think there is something strange going on here. Sure, Rome should be a late blossoming civ, in a historical sense. Even so, what if Rome (as a comp AI player) is never making it to that point as others have mentioned? ie. getting smothered by other civs that have powerful units in the early game.

Then, on the other hand, if we (human player) play as Rome, it is almost too easy to hose the computer (at least for awhile...) because you can put off researching both Cavalry AND Military training until much much later in the game because you have the legionaries (8 strength), which gives you ample time to go for education or commerce and be a powerhouse both economically AND militarily. This also puts you ahead of your friends you might be playing with, thats if they don't play as someone with strong copper units and crush you early on.....Anyway, if you put all your espionage points in the top 3 civs early on, you might notice that many of them attain Cavalry early, but then dilly dally around the tech tree after that. I have seen many comps who could have attained military training way earlier than any of their neighbors neglect it entirely for hundreds of turns in favor of other high end techs (such as Alliances or Road building, etc), which, of course, gives you a military edge if you are playing as Rome, or nearly anyone for that matter. Is this realistic? Or simply a way to balance the power of the AI? For often they go for these less than essential technologies when they could have rolled over everyone if they had taken a few turns to acquire better military units. Moreover, the Comp AI also avoids researching iron working until way later, whereas if they had gone for the more military techs my game would have been over 300 turns earlier (on marathon).

Of course, thats if you survive as Rome. As for the official maps, in the early game you get hounded by the Greeks and their 5 str. copper units than later on by Argantonios cavalry units (which get a massive bonus against heavy units (ie Legionaries)). So how could we expect the comp AI to survive? Human players might, if you can get to Iron working. But even then, there seems to be little to damper the progress and expansion of civs with strong copper units and by the time you get established, it hardly matters anymore. As I have mentioned before, I appreciate the attempt to "revist" the ancient MED., however, I think such flavor units and what not makes the game too difficult to balance properly, especially on Prince and Monarch difficulties. But I guess I and others have overstayed our welcome on this issue, so I guess I will leave my misplaced rant at that.

 

[Darkhour]

new update should be any day now.. shouldn't it?..

 

[Harrier]

new update should be any day now.. shouldn't it?..

Sorry.

But, I just hate it when people make a silly post in a bug thread post.

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