Building Balance (V2.6)

[Stalker0]

Really? Don't you invest in buildings?

Constantly, and then the money just replenishes. Its probably the insane trade deals the AI makes, without those I likely would find the gold more reasonable, but its not hard at all to get hundreds of GPT flowing in medieval.

 

[CppMaster]

@Recursive Would there be adjustments for AI trades in the next patch? If that's the case, it should be taken into consideration here.

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

Monuments gives always 2 culture and makes the city expand border faster, so it's good to do early. I build it just after shrine or 1st if I don't go for a religion. It's also cheaper.

Try investing in a stoneworks first if a city can work two stones as third and fourth citizens or forge if you can connect mines for third and fourth citizens, or just an invested well first if it's earlier in the game. Your city will bloom and start having good yields much quicker. I would only give priority to shrines with ancestor worship to a good production building first. I even don't go monument first in the capital, I only do if I go Stonehenge or I don't plan a religion, or play as ideal faith start or civ, I play without ruins now so it's shrine first for me. Monument is the most important or second most important, after shrine, from what I think of soft buildings for new cities, that is, not defense or productive. I many times have stoneworks or well and a shrine built before monument. Sometimes granary if city can bloom with it and have many good tiles like amber on hills. Sometimes a terrain wonder like Petra. Sometimes walls if it's city close to the warmonger or just an AI I'm not sure about. Sometimes a lighthouse and work boats if it's also plus three science and grants two or three tiles a bonus. All before monument and I always save gold for a first building for a new city if possible. Watermills are far worse due to both cost of production and cost of investments for a new cities but if I can afford it, I also built them first but require investment

 

[CppMaster]

Try investing in a stoneworks first if a city can work two stones as third and fourth citizens

That's a big IF right there. A monument doesn't have that. Also monument would make the city expand faster to potential stone or mine.

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

That's not what I'm taking about. New city should have either production lux or bonus resources around or under in the first ring. And anyway you can get culture from pantheon or policies to expand first two times. That's not good city placement if you have to wait to get a first good production tile.

 

[CppMaster]

Ideally yeah, but sometime I decide to place a city where I have several good tiles in the second ring. A monument is even more important then. Also, not all pantheons provide culture.

I think that you are trying to state the obvious: IF a monument wouldn't do much then it's not important. That's the case for any building.

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

Sure, but I would add if you need monument as first in every or most cities, then it's a problem with city placement. i don't mean your problem, i mean in general.Monument is a good building ofc it just isn't what a new city needs asap, as you can buy tiles, settle it that you don't need to get tiles or get culture from terrain other buildings or natural wonder by pantheon. That is a lot of exclusions and I find my cities 75% of the time having one or more of the buying tiles is so much better ut is instant fir 35 or 55 gold while you need to spend more fir a monument, and spend the turns to finish it. Production building first also means councils, shrines, libraries, forges, walls or granaries will be built much sooner. It compounds very quickly Monument will give you maybe one tile more. Let's say you have two stone one in a first ring one in a second. i would buy the tile and improve asap and get stoneworks rather than get monument and. Wait. That probably 7 production afdvantage for maybe 5 prod adv after the city expands through monument. For progress flat city it's 3 v 10!!! for many turns.
If you work those one stone without stoneworkd it's five versus twelve in a city working two with stoneworks. I don't count quarries cause both can get it but prob if someone has stoneworks, he would have faster quarries.
Also production internal trade routes so valuable for tradition and progress too. So this stoneworks also can add another six to eight production.

 

[jdevo]

That's part of the reason I dislike the mid and later game, cause early you can have this feel that cities have purposes and some are not buildings armories but you focus food nd work scientists and writers in, some cities ar production centers when you build all around buildings and wonders, and some are strictly for military buildings.

Building in the early game is fun because each city feels unique, but once you get to the mid/late game that sort of disappears. I think each building does too much. It might be a good idea to have something like the government plaza in Civ 6 in each era. A choice to build one of three unique buildings that send you towards a path of whatever victory you're going after.

 

[ma_kuh]

I find the Guilds are fun to build in the early-mid game, you have a feeling of picking your best cities (I know it's usually just your first three, but whether it's a border/defense city can matter), maybe spreading around the free Great People slots if your capitol is the only one that will generate them anyway.

Have Guilds for GEMS been suggested before? Or does their appearance on basic buildings make that a bad direction?

 

[nekokon]

Another direction for specializing cities would be to overhaul buildings to give less bonus directly, but give more bonus when turning production into culture/gold/science/etc and reduce the reliant on building to reduce unhappiness.
You would only have to build necessary buildings to improve the yield you want and buildings to reduce unhappiness (a lot less than currently), and spend the down time to turn production into the yield you want until a new building is available.
Would give more interesting tactical choice during warfare/espionage too, like only have to target specific cities to slow down their victory effectively (through forcing them to spend production on military) instead of going genocide until you hit their capital (because unless you fully take their cities you can't stop their progress).

Wishful thinking for the state of VP as of now, but if someone can adopt the idea to make a mod mod it would be great.

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

Yeah, I would like to see more specialisation.
But I think more instant yields is not the way, it has taken me many games, many months to even understand how currently present instant yields work in the game and what the heck is going on with lal those notifications and floating numbers.
I think more guilds like building for the military, for science and for production, like was introduced with diplomatic national wonders. Not in a sense that they need to generate specialist but give strong bonuses, like bonus XP or bonus promotions, that makes more yields to scientists for example bonus gold, and you can only have three or even one of them.

They wouldn't need to be in place of anything, just a pure addition, as the ai would also have access to them and as we already run out of buildings to built and after some point build order does not create any meaningful choices situations. If the techs progress accelerate too much, maybe there is a simple way to raise up all tech costs by a percentage so we would have roughly the same timing

 

[greenfieldpark]

Constantly, and then the money just replenishes. Its probably the insane trade deals the AI makes, without those I likely would find the gold more reasonable, but its not hard at all to get hundreds of GPT flowing in medieval.

Oh interesting. Must not have played enough of this version. Im still used to 1gpt trades. Also you are right. Ai is passive so no need for army. Im also used to maxing my unit count. Eagerly awaiting next version.

 

[Recursive]

@Recursive Would there be adjustments for AI trades in the next patch? If that's the case, it should be taken into consideration here.

Yes. Buying resources is no longer impossible, but the AI won't offer to buy them unless the price is high enough.