Building Wealth, Research, Culture

[Virtual Alex]

I feel like I have been reading conflicting information about how building these things works.

Do they, or do they not, run through modifier buildings like Libraries and Banks?

 

[Silu]

No. You can easily check this yourself by mousing over the research/gold/culture icons in the city screen. They do benefit from hammer modifiers (forge etc.).

 

[bestsss]

Libraries/Bank, etc is for commerce(appliable to all: gold/beakers/espionage), gold and beakers.
Hammers regardless to what being converted are subject of hammer modifiers and that includes capital bureaucracy (if applicable)

 

[Virtual Alex]

So a city that makes 25 hammers will build 25 beakers, culture, and gold?

I read in some other thread that it is smarter to build research than to build wealth. Does anyone know the reasoning?

 

[Lansky]

You build wealth until you can run a 100% slider, only then do you build research. It is better to up the slider percent and run a higher amount of your commerce through the multiplier buildings.

 

[NKVD]

You build wealth until you can run a 100% slider, only then do you build research. It is better to up the slider percent and run a higher amount of your commerce through the multiplier buildings.

This was my question. makes sense! thanks because i was building research

 

[Polobo]

When you switch to building wealth/beakers/culture and have city governors working they will generally rearrange tiles and you will find yourself having fewer hammers being worked than you did when producing units/buildings. If your city is able to produce more hammers than commerce this may not be desirable and you should manually maximize hammers and therefore gold so that you are able to raise the science slider. I haven't fully looked into the mechanics of how the emphasis buttons play into this (or even in generally) but it can/does happen.

 

[UncleJJ]

I feel like I have been reading conflicting information about how building these things works.

Do they, or do they not, run through modifier buildings like Libraries and Banks?

The reason you are getting conflicting advice is that it was changed between Vanilla and Warlords. So it depends on what version you're playing.

Originally, in Vanilla, each base hammer gave 1/2 a beaker or gold and that was then modified by libraries and banks.

In Warlords and BTS this was changed. Now base hammers are modified by production modifiers. Each output hammer gives 1 beaker or gold and these are not modified by research or gold multipliers but simply added to the total.

 

[Virtual Alex]

Thank you, that was what i was looking for.

 

[T-hawk]

I read in some other thread that it is smarter to build research than to build wealth. Does anyone know the reasoning?

It's smarter to build whichever of Research or Wealth has the LOWER average multiplier across your civilization. More commonly, the beaker multiplier is higher. This happens because libraries are cheap and early, because Academies exist for beakers but there is no comparable building for cash, and because Oxford comes earlier than Wall Street. So in most situations building Wealth is better.

The converse can be true, usually in the industrial age, when you have all +100% gold multipliers and Wall Street, but don't yet have laboratories. Then it can be correct to build Research instead.

I wrote up a discussion that might prove enlightening. It focuses on merchants versus scientists, but the same principles hold for Wealth vs Research:

http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/economy.shtml

 

[Unconquered Sun]

It's smart to build culture for the first border pop; or even the second one (at 100 culture normal speed) for culturally contested tiles, because of the hidden +20 modifier you get.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

"Building" research once getting Alpha during a heavy REX is a good way to get to Currency and building wealth. After that (as long as you've set up cottages) 'building' wealth is usually better. Of course, if you're operating research from a specialist-heavy style, then low slider/build research in those cities might be better. Then again, those types of games usually benefit more from military-heavy approaches, so you should probably build units/spies in those hammer cities instead.

 

[Gooblah]

The amount of beakers, gold, or culture from building Research, Wealth and Culture is equal to half the city's production fed through production modifiers (NOT research, gold, or culture modifiers, so your Libraries, Banks, and Pavilions WON'T have an effect, while your Forges WILL).

Research building (RB) is enabled by Alphabet; use RB to tech to the more efficient (explained later) Current, while allows you to build wealth (WB); WB will allow you to raise your tech slider, increasing research output across the empire instead of in just one city (as RB does). Also, I suggest using WB either pre-beeline (to stock up gold for a 100% research rush) or post-military-tech-acquisition, since you can use stockpiled gold to insta-upgrade your Axemen into Riflemen. I don't have much experience with Culture building, but the AIs like to use it on late game new cities (either settled or conquered), and it's probably helpful for a culture win.

 

[T-hawk]

The amount of beakers, gold, or culture from building Research, Wealth and Culture is equal to half the city's production fed through production modifiers

BTS does not have that halving. All of the city's hammer production converts to beakers/gold/culture.

Also, in vanilla Civ 4, Research/Wealth/Culture did use the specific modifiers and not hammer modifiers. I forget exactly when it was changed.

I don't have much experience with Culture building, ... it's probably helpful for a culture win.

It can be, but more often Wealth is better. Since building Culture doesn't go through your (huge +300% or more) culture multipliers, it's usually better to build Wealth instead in order to push the culture slider higher to get the multipliers.

 

[mica8911]

"Building" research once getting Alpha during a heavy REX is a good way to get to Currency and building wealth.

I am doing this exactly in the game I am currently playing. I will see which one I benefit more from when I get currency. If you have the option of building wealth and research then simply see which one gives you the greater GPT.

 

[Gorey]

It depends on what your goal is.

More Research:
Building research is most useful in powering through a REX thats killed your research rate. You use it to get yourself to Currency and Code of Laws as quick as pissble. After you bounce back, building research is only useful whenever your slider is at 100%.

The reason is because you'll almost always have more sience multipliers. Building wealth and then in turn using that gold to put the slider higher is better.. because that gold will go through your Reasarch multipliers.


More Gold:
On the other hand, if your goal is to accumalte more gold (for upgrades or rushing things), you should drop the slider, and build research to take up the slack. Dropping the slider will put more of your commerce through the Gold multipliers.


Its actually quite elegant when you think about it.


More Culture
Usefule for initial border pops on mid/late game settlements/or captures. Useful in border cities when the AI culture is encroaching on you (or if you want to encroach on them). Also useful for one of your cities you intend to use for winning culturally.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

It's smart to build culture for the first border pop; or even the second one (at 100 culture normal speed) for culturally contested tiles, because of the hidden +20 modifier you get.

Where can I find more information on this hidden modifier? I am about to move up to Immortal and want to know everything I can about the mechanics that is not displayed in game.

 

[MyOtherName]

More Gold:
On the other hand, if your goal is to accumalte more gold (for upgrades or rushing things), you should drop the slider, and build research to take up the slack. Dropping the slider will put more of your commerce through the Gold multipliers.

No, you still want to build wealth.

If you really want gold, then why do any research?

If you really want a little bit of research, you're better off using your instead of your . (Again, assuming your average beaker multiplier exceeds your average gold multiplier)

 

[ZPV]

Vanilla
50% of hammers, without production multipliers. These run through the commerce-specific multipliers, so 20 (without multipliers) building Research with a Library and a University will get 20*0.5*1.5 = 15

Warlords
100% of hammers, without production multipliers. These run through the commerce-specific multipliers, so 20 (before multipliers) building Research with a Library and a University will get 20*1.5 = 30

BtS
100% of hammers, with production multipliers, but these are unaffected by commerce multipliers.
So 20 with a Forge will produce 25 of research. Adding a Library won't change this.

 

[Groogaroo]

Where can I find more information on this hidden modifier? I am about to move up to Immortal and want to know everything I can about the mechanics that is not displayed in game.

Here... Culture Mechanics Disassembled

This article goes into detail on the hidden +20 modifier, however this is literally just for cultural borders and has no effect on the cities cutltural status.


There's also this thread... Understanding culture mechanics

Where I drew some pretty pictures showing how the points stack with each ring, but again this is all in the article.