Button thread

[Lord Tirian]

For instance, do you have any idea what button could be used for a 'Spore Cloud' promotion for the Spore Launcher, which could give a bonus against air units and a collateral damage reduction?

Edit: Other current native life-exclusive promotions that have unfitting buttons are Hidden, Wild and Psychic Terror.

Tried to do some buttons for them... (in same order as the preview pic):

• Hidden: Wanted to re-use the theme of the stealth special ability - and I know that the heart doesn't symbolise Planet but rather 'Empath' - but the planet circle wouldn't look too good with it and thanks to the planet attitude icons, the association of the heart with planet is partially given.
• Psychic Terror: ...just the good old dream twister symbol! Fits rather well, I think.
• Spore Cloud: The dots in the middle for the spores... the frame could symbolise the six tubes of the spore launcher or the cloud, take your pick!
• Wild: Since the "wild" promo can just be taken by human-controlled native life, I think the frame makes sense, with the mindworm icon for native (instead of a skull, compare the special ability-version of it)

I tried to keep doing what I did for the special abilities - re-using and re-arranging the original SMAC/X icons, because they are rather well done, nicely abstract and using them over and over again - together with the techs and special abilities - helps to keep the Planetfall buttons consistent... and gives them a rather distinct "SMAC"-feel, I hope.

Furthermore, I think the mindworm icon would make a nice flag for native life, I could do one... but that wouldn't really fit with non-native barbarian units, so any thoughts about that?

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pfeffersack]

By the way, would that mean that native line may get its own promo line? Then it could grow again with certain promos - the return of the demon boils! Would sound and look nicer than "mindworms with combat III" or so...
Cheers, LT.

That visible increase in danger would give a huge boost of atmosphere for me.

The way I imagine it, there would be seven promotions with the original SMAC names, first giving +10%, then +20% and so on...if a more advanced one is reached, the old is removed - that would prevent demon boils unit information cluttered with seven different strength promotions.

BTW, I really like the new icons - the red colour together with better symbols make it a lot easier to see with one glance what you are facing

 

[Maniac]

Tried to do some buttons for them...

Thanks. I'll include the Spore Cloud promotion in patch b (because adding promotions breaks savegames) and the other ones in patch a.

For the record, I do find it odd you've chosen the eye to represent visibility rather than SeeInvisible. Of course I don't have any idea myself what else could represent Invisible.

Furthermore, I think the mindworm icon would make a nice flag for native life, I could do one... but that wouldn't really fit with non-native barbarian units, so any thoughts about that?

Unfortunately I can't think of any solutions for that.

Can you create flags by the way? I didn't know that.

Can you also edit gamefonts? Those are not buttons of course, but it fits in the broader interface design, so I'll post it in this thread:

How would you feel about adding seperate icons for the Planet Attitude and Psi Potential (total planet value as it is named in unpatched v11 in the PA widget)? Could clear up some confusion.

The base's planet value could still use the heart icons.
The Planet Attitude could be represented by the Walk with Planet/Centauri Preserve icon, red and green version.
Psi Potential could be represented by a red and green letter Psi. To create a further distinction with the Psi combat icon, a capital letter Psi could be used, like the one Deon once made (see attachment).

 

[Lord Tirian]

For the record, I do find it odd you've chosen the eye to represent visibility rather than SeeInvisible. Of course I don't have any idea myself what else could represent Invisible.

Oh, you're not the only one. Even for the special abilities I only chose it because it was the only thing that I could associate with the concept of visibility - I don't really like it, but couldn't come up with a nicely visible icon for "invisible". The re-use of the eye here is just for consistency with the special ability. If I'll ever think of something better, these two buttons are the first thing to go!

Can you create flags by the way? I didn't know that.

Can you also edit gamefonts? Those are not buttons of course, but it fits in the broader interface design, so I'll post it in this thread:

For the flags: I can do both types of flags - the two-colour decal flags as they're used now (of course, this means I'm bound to the colours you set for the civ) - and full-colour flags (see Dune Wars as an example). For the gamefonts file... never tried, but there's a guide floating around somewhere, so I think I can try my hand at it, but I need to do some investigating on that!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Hey, I've inserted the capital psis into the gamefont file (see attached), after the combat psi. Since I worked on the file, I was wondering why there are tree icons in the file - wouldn't they make nice icons for the base's planet value? Unless they're too closely associated with the tree = terraforming theme (which may be the reason why they're unused).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Thanks for the psi icons! These should become more used later, when for instance defying a Concordat/Whites Pines council resolution could decrease your Psi Potential.

The tree indeed is too associated with terraforming. The first four icons of the last row in the gamefont can be over'written'.

 

[Lord Tirian]

The tree indeed is too associated with terraforming. The first four icons of the last row in the gamefont can be over'written'.

Ah, okay - good to know. Though I'm not sure about using the worm icon for attitude - I think the heart fits attitude rather well (because of the whole concept of "attitude" and so on). I feel that the worm is something that's more closely associated to Centauri and natives in general. Wouldn't it fit better for the effects of bases/improvement/etc. as this describes the effects *on the native life*, while keeping the big heart as symbol for the attitude? Anyway, I'm going to add it to the gamefont file, once I get it scaled down nicely (a bit fiddly to get it that small and still looking good).

In other news, the stealth symbol kept bothering me, but I think I found a nice symbol that fits "stealth" - the X for secret, after all that's the point of stealth! Plus this frees up the eye for "seeing" again - at some point I might revise the deep radar/resonadar with symbols incorporating the eye to symbolise the extra visibility range.

In the attached file and screenshot, I made some new buttons, as the new patch shuffled around some special abilities:
1st column: New stealth buttons for subs and natives
2nd column: Medic special ability and the promotion follow-up
3rd column: Navigation special ability and the promotion follow-up

As always... post complaints, wishes for tweaks etc., if anything comes up!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Ah, okay - good to know. Though I'm not sure about using the worm icon for attitude - I think the heart fits attitude rather well (because of the whole concept of "attitude" and so on). I feel that the worm is something that's more closely associated to Centauri and natives in general. Wouldn't it fit better for the effects of bases/improvement/etc. as this describes the effects *on the native life*, while keeping the big heart as symbol for the attitude? Anyway, I'm going to add it to the gamefont file, once I get it scaled down nicely (a bit fiddly to get it that small and still looking good).

I too think that the Centauri Preserve icon would fit better for the Planet Value rather than Planet Attitude. There are two reasons why I suggested otherwise:

1) Like you I see, I wasn't sure the Centauri Preserve icon would still look good at such a small size. In this case I thought it would be better to use the best looking icon for the most mentioned concept: Planet Value.

2) Planet Attitude is at the moment IIRC only used three times in the interface. Planet Value numerous times. It would be much less work to change the icon for Planet Attitude than change all references in XML, Python and SDK to the Planet Value icon. :dizzy:

Of course the heart icons could be copied to another spot in the gamefont, and the Centauri Preserve icons drawns over where the hearts currently are. But I don't know how time-consuming that would be. I've heard the gamefont be referred to as the 'pain font', and that it takes several hours to do a single icon??

So anyway, I'd say what icon to use for what concept depends on how good the Centauri Preserve icon will look at small size, and how easy it is to copy icons to other spots in the gamefonts.

In other news, the stealth symbol kept bothering me, but I think I found a nice symbol that fits "stealth" - the X for secret, after all that's the point of stealth!

Great idea!
Thanks for the buttons.

 

[Lord Tirian]

So anyway, I'd say what icon to use for what concept depends on how good the Centauri Preserve icon will look at small size, and how easy it is to copy icons to other spots in the gamefonts.

Copying icons is relatively easy to do, one just needs to do it carefully, I can do moving around relatively fast, as long as it's only one or two icons at once.

The gamefont is mainly a pain to work with because of three things:
1) you work on a rather small size, so it's often literally pixel-pushing and automatic re-scaling doesn't work that well on such a small scale...
2) it's very dependent on your alpha channel, so it's even more pixel-pushing/double-checking and...
3) you have to do everything twice. Makes working with it a bit tedious for relatively small gain (an icon isn't remotely as flashy as a new unit etc.). And oh, for religions/corps, the order is important...

Anyway, I think I got a nicely looking worm for now - but you may want to take a look for yourself. I attached a screenshot and the gamefont-files for testing. I temporarily replaced the hearts (because that way, both versions show up rather often, nice for testing). In my opinion, the round shape of it makes it work well in the city screen and in the datalinks, because it fits in well with the other round icons there (health/unhealth, happiness/unhappiness), but as attitude icon at the left top corner, it's not 100% fitting. But it's more of a work in progress, so I'd like to get your feedback and suggestions first before I continue.

In any case, replacing/swapping icons is something I can do rather quickly, just the creation of a new icon takes time to get the look right.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Yeay, looks great!
So let's use the worm for Planet Value, and the hearts for Planet Attitude!

 

[Lord Tirian]

Yeay, looks great!
So let's use the worm for Planet Value, and the hearts for Planet Attitude!

Okay, I put the hearts into the file - the worm replaces the old slot of the hearts (for less editing, as you said above), the hearts are the first and second entry in the last row (as the first four are obsolete).

Also, I've made three promo buttons for the legendary, alpha and omega promotions, so they don't use the elite icon over and over again.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Thanks!

 

[Lord Tirian]

Thanks!

Since you wanted to expand the promo line for natives - would you consider splitting them off completely, so that natives don't share any promos with non-natives, even if this means there are some duplicate promos (like flanking - which could be, for example, called "swarming" for natives)? Then all of their icons could be red and planet-ish names - having the mix is a bit weird, I think.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Yes, that is the intention. Do you have further ideas for names?

For general strength increase promotions, SMAC had the following lidecycle levels:
#MORALE
Very Green, Hatchling
Green, Larval Mass
Disciplined, Pre-Boil
Hardened, Boil
Veteran, Mature Boil
Commando, Great Boil
Elite, Demon Boil

The first three don't make sense as promotions (Hatchling to Pre-Boil), so that leaves four. Who knows that may be enough - there are/will be plenty of other promotions to pick.

Any ideas for a rename for Amphibious and Barrage (problem here is that besides the Spore Launcher a naval unit should also be able to pick this)?

 

[Maniac]

Oh by the way something I noticed: with your gamefont the big green Planet Attitude heart icon 'upper left corner of map screen) is partly transparent. That makes the icon harder to see on certain backgrounds (eg in a city screen, when floating over black undiscovered land). Did you change the transparency, or accidentally inherit changed transparency of the icon that was there before, or so?

 

[Lord Tirian]

The first three don't make sense as promotions (Hatchling to Pre-Boil), so that leaves four. Who knows that may be enough - there are/will be plenty of other promotions to pick.

Any ideas for a rename for Amphibious and Barrage (problem here is that besides the Spore Launcher a naval unit should also be able to pick this)?

Oh, nice! I looked at the list before and had some ideas to expand it (mainly to bump off the non-fitting ones) and ended up with:

Swelling Mass -> Nascent Boil -> Boil -> Mature Boil -> Great Boil -> Terror/Nightmare Boil (either one would be fine) -> Demon Boil -> Apocalypse Boil

An alternative for Barrage could be Miasma - could refer to toxic spores or the effluvium keeping IoD afloat (I'd also like Toxic Effluvium or something in that manner, but it's long, Miasma is short, concise and sounds organic). Amphibious - well, I think one could just use it, as human units use the pods. But possible names could be Aquatic (rather simple), or for more flavour I'd choose Cilia or Flagella (akin to the ones bacteria use to move through water - the idea of tentacled, water-crossing, brain-eating mindworms is scary), which both sound like something organic.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Miasma and Flagella sound great!

I'd disagree with Terror/Nightmare Boil and Apocalypse Boil. Terror Boil shares a word too many with Psychic Terror. I also figured Dream Twister would be a good name to keep in reserve for a promotion - that one would be too close to Nightmare Boil. Lastly, Apocalypse Boil seems a little TOO dramatic IMO. I like the other ones though.

I also plan to add a Fat Layer promotion for Sealurks by the way. It would allow them to move through impassable terrain (meaning Icepacks) and see certain invisible units such as subs in trenches.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Did you change the transparency, or accidentally inherit changed transparency of the icon that was there before, or so?

Apparently, I did change it, though not on purpose, no clue how this sneaked in! I've attached a fixed version.

I also figured Dream Twister would be a good name to keep in reserve for a promotion - that one would be too close to Nightmare Boil.

Actually, the Dream Twister was the reason how I arrived at "Nightmare"! Alternatively, "Dread Boil" could work as well, feeding into the same theme, but with a different word.

I guess I should start thinking about some buttons!

 

[GeoModder]

Yes, that is the intention. Do you have further ideas for names?

For general strength increase promotions, SMAC had the following lidecycle levels:
#MORALE
Very Green, Hatchling
Green, Larval Mass
Disciplined, Pre-Boil
Hardened, Boil
Veteran, Mature Boil
Commando, Great Boil
Elite, Demon Boil

The first three don't make sense as promotions (Hatchling to Pre-Boil), so that leaves four. Who knows that may be enough - there are/will be plenty of other promotions to pick.

Any ideas for a rename for Amphibious and Barrage (problem here is that besides the Spore Launcher a naval unit should also be able to pick this)?

In case you need an extra adjective to go with Boil, how about a Rampant Boil?
Barrage: Collateral or simply Bombardment?
Amphibious is a tougher one. But according to the v11 Datalinks only infantry units can use it? But if native life will use it to, the only thing right now that pops up is Coastal Incursion.

A proposal for the city garrison promotionline. How d'you feel about renaming it Perimeter Guard and let it be active only in a base with a perimeter/tachyon defense and in a fort/bunker?

 

[Lord Tirian]

I spent a bit more time on the tech buttons... enough to get sufficiently familiar with GIMP. The reason why I wanted to do it in PS was that I was faster (knowing the shortcuts and all) - but by now, GIMP feels pretty good to use as well. So I just went ahead and did all tech buttons without question mark in GIMP directly, following the guide (and finally caught the little bit at the start ). Attached them... should prove useful and make the tech tree more pretty!

Cheers, LT.