C2C - Buildings Discussion

[Koshling]

Because having medieval housing in the galactic era would be weird. I can just push it back to another tech after civil engineering.

Idea for a new national wonder:

Emergency Grain reserve (might want a different name to differentiate rom strategic grain reserve, but that's a detail): Increase food required to grow in all cities by 5% BUT provides up to 4 food/turn to any city that is in starvation. I think the Python to do that would be quite easy (would run on doTurn() and would not be expensive to process)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Idea for a new national wonder:

Emergency Grain reserve (might want a different name to differentiate rom strategic grain reserve, but that's a detail): Increase food required to grow in all cities by 5% BUT provides up to 4 food/turn to any city that is in starvation. I think the Python to do that would be quite easy (would run on doTurn() and would not be expensive to process)

Sounds interesting. There was a mod out there which was working on a shared resource pool but that would be overkill for this.

I would do it on begin/endPlayerTurn myself as we are currently doing stuff there. Interestingly endPlayerTurn happens before they get to move any units or do anything.

BtW Strategic Grain Reserve is Orion Veteran's not RoM, but I ported it to RoM/AND and C2C.

 

[Koshling]

Sounds interesting. There was a mod out there which was working on a shared resource pool but that would be overkill for this.

I would do it on begin/endPlayerTurn myself as we are currently doing stuff there. Interestingly endPlayerTurn happens before they get to move any units or do anything.

BtW Strategic Grain Reserve is Orion Veteran's not RoM, but I ported it to RoM/AND and C2C.

In a similar vein, how about trade-caravan anlogous units that carry food? Built with food, can 'construct' food in a city (some proportion of what they cost to build).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In a similar vein, how about trade-caravan anlogous units that carry food? Built with food, can 'construct' food in a city (some proportion of what they cost to build).

I did look into this at one stage but got side tracked, plus no graphics. Afforess even put automation code for such units so that they would head towards starving cities.

 

[EldrinFal]

Koshling, did you come up with that idea after getting Industrialism in your game? When I got that tech in my latest game, 99% of my cities went into starvation. That, and Civil Engineering, which I got the turn before.

Is there a reason why there hasn't been a Farmer Specialist?

 

[ThoricFrame]

A farmer specialist like a regular scientist or engineer or artist or something? Nothing like that exists because it would either be not worth using or a way to get a city that will never stop growing.

edit: I guess if there was a limit then it wouldn't be infinite size, however farm tiles already do this job.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Koshling, did you come up with that idea after getting Industrialism in your game? When I got that tech in my latest game, 99% of my cities went into starvation. That, and Civil Engineering, which I got the turn before.

Is there a reason why there hasn't been a Farmer Specialist?

The simplest answer is that I have not figured out how to get extra specialists to work in the city screen, otherwise we would have had doctors before now.

 

[strategyonly]

The simplest answer is that I have not figured out how to get extra specialists to work in the city screen, otherwise we would have had doctors before now.

Have you asked in the python/SDK thread about this yet? They are very helpful there, especially God Emperor.

 

[Koshling]

Koshling, did you come up with that idea after getting Industrialism in your game? When I got that tech in my latest game, 99% of my cities went into starvation. That, and Civil Engineering, which I got the turn before.

Is there a reason why there hasn't been a Farmer Specialist?

Yes, exactly those 2 techs ;-)

 

[EldrinFal]

The simplest answer is that I have not figured out how to get extra specialists to work in the city screen, otherwise we would have had doctors before now.

I could have sworn I saw extra specialists in another mod. But it may have just been a modified specialist. It might have been Rise from Erebus. If I get some time later I'll check it again to see if I'm remembering correctly.

A farmer specialist like a regular scientist or engineer or artist or something? Nothing like that exists because it would either be not worth using or a way to get a city that will never stop growing.

edit: I guess if there was a limit then it wouldn't be infinite size, however farm tiles already do this job.

Yeah, a standard specialist like Engineer, Scientist, etc. I don't think they could make a city grow forever though since you have health and happiness as factors. And of course, the number of Farmers allowed could always be restricted.

 

[BlueGenie]

I think I would be against having Farmers IN a city. Working tiles on a farm does indeed make them into farmers. What I think could be added is a Farmers Market (requires any of Apple, Banana, grain/food type resource in City Vicinity, and possibly a Farm too) that makes food more readily available to the population in the city and thus adds +1 food per food/grain type resource (like Butcher does with cattle).

 

[EldrinFal]

I think I would be against having Farmers IN a city. Working tiles on a farm does indeed make them into farmers. What I think could be added is a Farmers Market (requires any of Apple, Banana, grain/food type resource in City Vicinity, and possibly a Farm too) that makes food more readily available to the population in the city and thus adds +1 food per food/grain type resource (like Butcher does with cattle).

Specialists allow for more precise control though as they can be increased or decreased to fine tune your city. A building is a set number.

The issue I've noticed is that when you have cities in your empire relying on a building(s) that provides Food/Happiness/Health (less so with Health) and then you research a tech that obsoletes those, most (or all) of your cities go into Unhappy or Starvation, or all the above. A spec Farmer would at least allow you to stagnate until you get other Food buildings to compensate.

 

[BlueGenie]

Mmm. Better yet would be to have said buildings only obsolete when something at least somewhat equivalent is available, or even upgrade into said something equivalent. I still don't like the idea of one or more food producers in the middle of a city. No room for farms there really. Especially later in the game.

 

[EldrinFal]

Mmm. Better yet would be to have said buildings only obsolete when something at least somewhat equivalent is available, or even upgrade into said something equivalent. I still don't like the idea of one or more food producers in the middle of a city. No room for farms there really. Especially later in the game.

Not sure what you mean by no room for farms. A Farmer wouldn't replace farms and I would never imagine a Farmer spec producing more than a farm plot does. Think of a Farm spec as additional hands on the farm producing a bit more output. Or a more highly skilled farmer that can get more production out of the farm he's working.

Farmers could also help cities that are up in the Tundra or in Deserts, where it's difficult to make farms, especially early in the game.

Or if it's just the label "Farmer," it could always be Hunter, Cook, Baker, Forager, Produce Manager, whatever.

 

[BlueGenie]

It's not the name per se. Its' having a Specialist producing food.
There are a lot of buildings that give additional food already, like Butcher, Bakery, Artesian Well, and so on. If there's a problem with food once they obsolete then why obsolete them without having decent replacements to build, or having them upgrade to a decent replacement. With all those buildings already taking the "spot of a specialist" then why have a Specialist that really has no part of being in a City.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Have you asked in the python/SDK thread about this yet? They are very helpful there, especially God Emperor.

Yes. They quite rightly said use Johnny Smith's specialist stacker mod.

I could have sworn I saw extra specialists in another mod. But it may have just been a modified specialist. It might have been Rise from Erebus. If I get some time later I'll check it again to see if I'm remembering correctly.

Indeed so.

However, RoM/AND/C2C has partly converted to the Specialist Stacker mod. Which makes things more difficult.

It's not the name per se. Its' having a Specialist producing food.
There are a lot of buildings that give additional food already, like Butcher, Bakery, Artesian Well, and so on. If there's a problem with food once they obsolete then why obsolete them without having decent replacements to build, or having them upgrade to a decent replacement. With all those buildings already taking the "spot of a specialist" then why have a Specialist that really has no part of being in a City.

Don't merchant specialists provide food? Or am I thinking of an earlier version.

 

[BlueGenie]

Great Merchant joining city as Specialist gives +1 food, standard Merchant Specialist does not.

 

[EldrinFal]

It's not the name per se. Its' having a Specialist producing food.
There are a lot of buildings that give additional food already, like Butcher, Bakery, Artesian Well, and so on. If there's a problem with food once they obsolete then why obsolete them without having decent replacements to build, or having them upgrade to a decent replacement. With all those buildings already taking the "spot of a specialist" then why have a Specialist that really has no part of being in a City.

By that argument, why have Specialists that can produce Gold, Culture, Hammers, or Science, all of which are also made via Buildings?

And a lot of the food buildings now require certain resources, so some cities are going to be SOL and be unable to produce them without Wheat, Corn, or the various animal resources. In the early game at least.

 

[BlueGenie]

Easy answer:
Producing food requires it to either be grown or have livestock or, in the case of buildings, have it sent to the producer of a finished product (butcher for instance). Growing or raising requires space, lots of it.
Producing Gold, Culture, Hammers, Science all require people working on it in buildings that could easily be inside a city, requiring some sort of material to work with that the city either produces or gets via trade (global resources, goods, bi-products from other industries, like pelts). These buildings don't take up the space farms or livestock would require.

 

[EldrinFal]

Easy answer:
Producing food requires it to either be grown or have livestock or, in the case of buildings, have it sent to the producer of a finished product (butcher for instance). Growing or raising requires space, lots of it.
Producing Gold, Culture, Hammers, Science all require people working on it in buildings that could easily be inside a city, requiring some sort of material to work with that the city either produces or gets via trade (global resources, goods, bi-products from other industries, like pelts). These buildings don't take up the space farms or livestock would require.

But why are you assuming that the Spec Farmers only work in the city tile itself? A city includes its entire radius, which has farms, cottages, etc. Hence when you bring up the city view, it includes all the surrounding plots of land.