C2C Combat Mod Introduction - Step IV (Stamina, Surround, and Stampede))

He said that we wanted to wait on it till after release, because it was part of a much broader project related to AI central control. That was why I was advocating for starting the freeze in the middle of this week, as opposed to the 15th.

I am currently waiting for three things from people, i wanted to get in before the freeze, thats why i like the 15th. But if i get them before the 15th, then that would be ok.
 
So, I'm just going to use this thread to brainstorm proper AI (and player!) usage of the SAD tags in the core mod. There are four modifiers, and each of them has a different impact on playstyles and helps break up the typical SoD.

Unnerve: This one seems like the most situational of the bonuses. Making it have greater strength only for SAD bonuses but not for combat is a really risky move. The promotions for that would probably increment at 75% per promotion on the line, so if you invest in it your unit would be +225% better at surrounding the enemy with this. It sounds to me like this would be a good fit for Heroes and other units with high starting strength, as you are really making a large sacrifice by not getting it actual combat promotions. The AI should take this rarely, and on horsemen primarily.
I think this is a pretty good assessment. Unnerve has no value for units that remain in the stack from which the attacks are going to come from and is only useful on the units that move to surround to support. It also clashes with itself with other units on the same tile as only the strongest unit is taken into account for establishing S&D support from a given location and this enhances the apparent S&D strength of the unit when evaluating the support the unit can provide. Horsemen, Canines, and Helicopter units would be primary candidates for Unnerve (mobility makes the best use and innate ability simply fits canines.)

Enclose: This one screams two things at me. First you need to have a lot of it to get it to work well. Second, it would synergize devastatingly with Unnerve. That would suggest that if you want to have a good cavalry corps in your army, it would make sense to use this only if you are willing to use it a lot (ie, on 10 or more units). It also means that you should only use it on a stack that is big enough to take advantage of the maximum cap. So I'd suggest that the AI use this sparingly, but keep the units that have it together and in an attack stack. Otherwise it should be avoided in favor of other promotions.
The same factors should be considered as was mentioned for Unnerve, but it should be limited to slower units that can form a long threatening line (spears, heavy cavalry, infantry) Yes, the synergy carries a truly devastating potential with Unnerve but Enclose is not useful at all if there is not enough established surround strength on the target.

Lunge: This seems to me like it could get very OP very fast unless it is limited to 5% increments. It also seems like it could very well be better than Combat for many Cavalry units. So the AI for that is simple, but the gameplay ramifications less so. Limiting the effect should be enough for keeping it balanced in the core, but if things get out of hand there is always this last tag.
I would suggest at least 10% increments (or even 15%). Yes, it can get powerful but only situational and only on the attack. Given the difficulty in which it must qualify to apply, I wouldn't consider it more valuable than a basic combat modifier. Particularly since DD can counter it. I would, however, limit it to units that can conceivably lunge in with great comparable speed to other contemporaries or natural ability. Similar list to Unnerve actually...

Dynamic Defense: First, could we please change the name of this to something better, like Sixth Sense? Dynamic Defense just sounds like a poor name to me. That said, all spearmen and archers should get this, no one else should. If you are getting down to axemen or swordsmen defending against cav you are in trouble. But a Heavy Pikeman with a couple promos of this and anti-cav promos should be able to defend quite well against almost any SAD situation, preventing the previous three bonuses from being too unbalanced.

I wasn't terribly happy with the naming either but this unit ability represents either 360 degree vision, 6th sense, being covered with weaponry that faces all directions like a porcupine or simply a very fast (dynamic) opponent that is impossible to get behind effectively. Since I figure robotic units would excel at this, 6th Sense didn't seem a good fit either. Dynamic Defense seemed to be more generic among all those considerations was all.

I don't know that I'd be quite so restrictive. I can see the units mentioned having this, yes, but rogue types, canines, felines, and a host of more advanced units should have access as well. And perhaps all units should be capable of some development here, just not the best development rates (aka two sets of promos, one with a strong development path and another with a weak one that all others have access to.)


So I'm specifically wanting to hear Koshling's opinion on the AI for this. Note that these plans are for the core, Thunderbrd may have other ideas for the Combat Mod.

My replies in red. :)
 
My replies in red. :)

I need to ten a basic framework for making sad decisions and supporting ai first. Once that is done we can incorporate these tags to enhance it. I don't want to spend too much time thinking through details until the overall framework is in place or at least thought through fully.
 
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