C2C: Hunters, Healers and Recon Units

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The hunter, healer and scouting units are all part of the same upgrade tree. Should they be? This thread is to discuss these various units. The attached image shows the current upgrade path.

When we (I) merged the hunter unit from (WoC), the healer units from Orion Veteran's Heath Care mod, and AAranda's surgeon unit. I did it quickly without fully looking at balance.

Part of the idea behind the HC mod was to upgrade recon units (explorers) to healers when they became useless in game. In C2C recon units extend well into the modern era.

The hunter units now have their own upgrades and are supposed to be counter animal units, but not the dog units.
 

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Comments from the other forum:-

@Dancing Hoskuld

I think the healers should be disconnected from the other recon units and just be on their own upgrade path ...

Healer -> Apothecary -> Medic -> Surgeon

In addition I don't think the Hunter should be able to upgrade to the Adventurer too. It should only upgrade to the Ranger and in turn the Ranger to the Adventurer.

On the discussion of Hunters, I think they are to strong. The have a :strength: of 4, and no other unit have similar :strength: before Axeman. And because Hunter is a Recon unit there is no counter unit or promotion that can be used to counter them.

So my suggestion is that to lover Hunter :strength: to 3 or even 2, but keep the massive animal bonus'. That way they can still be used for hunting wild animals, but can't be used for warfare. In my current game, which I started in Prehistoric, I was flooded with Hunters from Spain, and there was nothing I could do than to wait until they were in the open, and then try a 50%/50% combat with another Hunter.

OR could there be made a promotion that gives bonus towards recon units? It could either be a current one (Chok/Cover or both), or a new one. In later game this probably won't be a problem because of the sniper units, but I havn't gotten than far in the game yet.

This is just a minor imbalance in a mod I find very interesting :goodjob:
 
Currently the healer units are "the" defensive unit of choice. When I merged I did not adjust the strength of the units. Should I have?
 
I am
  • removing the surgeon unit until I can figure a better building for it. Currently it breaks things.
  • reducing the strength of the Hunter to 3.
  • removing the links between the healer units and the recon/hunter units.
 
So far, here I have little to say because I'm happy with these elements. Though a point was made earlier that Great Doctor points could be made more accessible. Is there a way to make a Doctor city specialist? Perhaps we could slightly enhance unhealth from a number of sources and allow the Doctors to eliminate an unhealth?
 
So far, here I have little to say because I'm happy with these elements. Though a point was made earlier that Great Doctor points could be made more accessible. Is there a way to make a Doctor city specialist? Perhaps we could slightly enhance unhealth from a number of sources and allow the Doctors to eliminate an unhealth?

Yes there is, it even came with the mod. Unfortunately it does not play well in game because the Specialist Doctor icon and the +/- buttons are up beneath the resources and can't be accessed. :(
 
I guess that means we'd need to figure out how to give ourselves a scroll bar there eh? hmm... somewhere around here there'd be a discussion on the matter I think. There was also a pretty cool idea floating around about a Drill Sergeant citizen, and I think it would be neat to open these concepts up for ourselves. I've often thought that a food producer might be interesting as well, perhaps a citizen source of Great Farmers? I dunno...
 
I guess that means we'd need to figure out how to give ourselves a scroll bar there eh? hmm... somewhere around here there'd be a discussion on the matter I think. There was also a pretty cool idea floating around about a Drill Sergeant citizen, and I think it would be neat to open these concepts up for ourselves. I've often thought that a food producer might be interesting as well, perhaps a citizen source of Great Farmers? I dunno...

Part of the problem is that RoM only uses part of Johnny Smiths "Specialist Stacker" mod and I am still not familiar enough with the code to figure out what needs to be done. Some of the functions have small name changes, for example. I am going to have to bite the bullet and print it off, the screen is just too small.
 
Part of the problem is that RoM only uses part of Johnny Smiths "Specialist Stacker" mod and I am still not familiar enough with the code to figure out what needs to be done. Some of the functions have small name changes, for example. I am going to have to bite the bullet and print it off, the screen is just too small.

What do you mean the screen is to small, What interface (where)?

Currently the healer units are "the" defensive unit of choice. When I merged I did not adjust the strength of the units. Should I have?

I like the defensive only, and the str look ok to me, but wish they had more healing power in the beginning, cause if you take a stack to a certain area, i always have like two to three healers in group and still it does take a while to heal?Also which i could get a GP a little earlier, your thoughts?
 
As I recall, from Vanilla up to now, unless its been changed and I didn't realize it, Healing promos in a stack do not add together unless they are differing sorts of promotions. For example, two healing units with the same promotions will not benefit a stack more than one. However, since you have tripple forest defense giving some healing benefit, if the Healer doesn't have that promotion, but another unit in the stack does, then both benefits apply.

If you want healers to be more effective, you could create more healing style promotions. For example, early medical units could have a promotion that aids in healing 'melee' units, another which could add some healing to 'siege units' etc...

Follow me?
 
What do you mean the screen is to small, What interface (where)?

I can only see a few tens of lines of code at one time on the screen where as I need to see a couple of hundred lines of code at a time with CvMainInterface.py. At least it is not the tens of thousands of lines of C that I had to work with when I worked. ;)

As I recall, from Vanilla up to now, unless its been changed and I didn't realize it, Healing promos in a stack do not add together unless they are differing sorts of promotions. For example, two healing units with the same promotions will not benefit a stack more than one. However, since you have tripple forest defense giving some healing benefit, if the Healer doesn't have that promotion, but another unit in the stack does, then both benefits apply.

If you want healers to be more effective, you could create more healing style promotions. For example, early medical units could have a promotion that aids in healing 'melee' units, another which could add some healing to 'siege units' etc...

Follow me?

We would also need buildings that provide exp to healing units. Currently I am not sure what does, but sometimes I get a couple of exp from specialists but not the Military Instructor.

I think exp and specialist type promotions may be the way to go.
 
I can only see a few tens of lines of code at one time on the screen where as I need to see a couple of hundred lines of code at a time with CvMainInterface.py. At least it is not the tens of thousands of lines of C that I had to work with when I worked. ;)

OH you mean your PC screen:lol: I have no problem with my 30" LCD. I would never ever go below that anymore, but it took a little getting used to.
 
I have found a small library of graphics for medical units. I posted a "Hospital Ship" earlier in the C2C ideas thread for comment but did not get any. So I will post it here along with a replacement for the Surgeon - an ambulance (WWI) style and maybe a "Chopper - medical evac" for later. I need some ideas on what these units can do.

The images and graphics are from the "Medic Project" mod put together by Aungi from various artist work.
 

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@Dancing Hoskuld

Those look good however I would not throw out the Surgeon and Medic just yet. There is room for both I think. Earlier eras before automobiles and helicopters could still have the people units. Think like civil war or before that there were no aircraft or cars. I don't have the game up right now to look at the tech tree so I could not give you details on where units should go.
 
@Dancing Hoskuld

Those look good however I would not throw out the Surgeon and Medic just yet. There is room for both I think. Earlier eras before automobiles and helicopters could still have the people units. Think like civil war or before that there were no aircraft or cars. I don't have the game up right now to look at the tech tree so I could not give you details on where units should go.

The surgeon was dropped some time ago;), but not in my version. I am thinking Surgeon/Sawbones (colonial era)->Medic (Crimean war - WWI) -> Ambulance (WWI-II) -> Huey (Korean). With Hospital Ship just a naval support unit.
 
It would be neat if you let an invisible unit (thief, ambusher,...) attack if an enemy unit is on the same tile. Maybe you could give the attacking unit the tile strength bonus instead of the defending unit.
 
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