player1 fanatic
Fanatic
I hope for balance patch in future (not just bug-fixers).
It reminds me on Blizzards games, like Warcraft or Startcraft (every new patch tried to balance game a little bit more).
C3C - Government Breakdown
- Thread starter Tavis
- Start date
I hope for balance patch in future (not just bug-fixers).
It reminds me on Blizzards games, like Warcraft or Startcraft (every new patch tried to balance game a little bit more).
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I thought Feudalism was going to be really cool. Although it still has a point, it has significantly less of one. I wonder if WW should still be necessary without the lack of maint. But I guess balance was tested for, so it can't be too bad (It always seemed like the gov for people who like ICS, which seems to be frowned apon, so it might be better this way)
For Facism, I wonder why they don't require maintenence any more. As for pop loss, it might be bad for your cities, but in opponent cities, pop loss and pop rush only serve to lower the population so you can get a majority quicker (and produce culture).
For Facism, I wonder why they don't require maintenence any more. As for pop loss, it might be bad for your cities, but in opponent cities, pop loss and pop rush only serve to lower the population so you can get a majority quicker (and produce culture).
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Maybe it's just me, but I realy thing that last several tweaks to govements were last minute changes (which means not too much tested).
Of course, I could be totaly wrong about this one.
Of course, I could be totaly wrong about this one.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
I think Feudalism may be getting under-estimated, it may turn out to be a strong early game government. It seems to me to be Monarchy with two differences: free unit support is flipped to favor towns, and rushing is by forced labor. That second part could be huge in some games! The chance to leave Despotism but retain pop rushing, hmmmm.
It definitely seems an early game government. Later in the game forced labor is less appealing (who wants to waste a gazillion citizens rushing an aircraft carrier
) and the 5/2/1 free unit support becomes especially unappealing after hospitals I think.
Since Feudalism will be unappealing for the long term, it will be an extra stepping stone with an extra period of anarchy. So I think it will have the most appeal to religious Civs, especially those going to war early in the game...
It definitely seems an early game government. Later in the game forced labor is less appealing (who wants to waste a gazillion citizens rushing an aircraft carrier
) and the 5/2/1 free unit support becomes especially unappealing after hospitals I think.Since Feudalism will be unappealing for the long term, it will be an extra stepping stone with an extra period of anarchy. So I think it will have the most appeal to religious Civs, especially those going to war early in the game...
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
As for free maintaince abilitiy, flavor-wise it suits more to Communism consdering that Communst counties had very different economy system then capitalistic states.
of course, flavor-wise != balance-wise
of course, flavor-wise != balance-wise
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Hmm, so it was error in table.
And all governments need to maintain buildings (since ability is removed from Feudalism).
Right?
This puts some new light.
Of course, if you ask me Feudalism doesn't really need WW, considering that it's best ability is removed.
Maybe even changing unit cost to 2gp instead of 3.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
3 gold per unit after a certain population and WW are the main differenced with Feudalism.
I think Feudalism will be good for its point, but only for its point. I think it strengthens Religious civs even more (but I like Religious civs, so I'm not complaining
)Tavis, thanks for the clarification
Black Waltz
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2002
- Messages
- 569
I'd say those suggesting that Facism would maybe be even better then Democracy, etc... I disagree. I'd say they're evenly matched but in diffrent ways. In Democracy and Republic you have the Comerce bonus to off-set any extra unit costs. However, in Facism you do not have the Comerce bonus but you instead have more free troops per city. However, this would mean that Science would probably lag behind.
A question about Facism. Will any civ have this as their 'prefered' or 'shunned' Government?
A question about Facism. Will any civ have this as their 'prefered' or 'shunned' Government?
BorgeoisBuffoon
Local Idiot
Hahaha, sweet. Thank you Tavis, I really hope C3C will be as good as it looks to be. ^_^
Hopefully a Mac version will be out...
Hopefully a Mac version will be out...
Black Waltz
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2002
- Messages
- 569
*hyperventalates* Only another few weeks... Only another few weeks...
korn469
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2001
- Messages
- 190
Tavis,
So turning off building maintence causes the AI to freak out? It won't ever switch to another government once it chooses one without building upkeep? Or was this problem just related to feudalism?
In my Ptw mod I've gotten a fairly decent distribution between my governments, but maybe communism (which doesn't require building upkeep) is an unrecognized governmental blackhole...
So turning off building maintence causes the AI to freak out? It won't ever switch to another government once it chooses one without building upkeep? Or was this problem just related to feudalism?
In my Ptw mod I've gotten a fairly decent distribution between my governments, but maybe communism (which doesn't require building upkeep) is an unrecognized governmental blackhole...
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
The AI thinks the government is so good that it won't change. The only current gov that has it is Anarchy, which they aren't allowed to stay in.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
The Hittites have Fascism as their preferred government? Why? I fail to see any historical connection between the Hittites and Fascism. Fascism was developed thousands of years after the fall of the Hittites, and I've never read anything that indicates that the Hittites were known for being any more oppressive or racist than any other nation of their era. Why on earth is Fascism their preferred government?
Black Waltz
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2002
- Messages
- 569
Maybe they just wanted one to actually have it as their preferred and that was the only one they could think of?
As you say, it will only be appealing during the early game, during the middle age. But, this is the time when you start to build aqueducts, and grow your cities, and that is not a valid way to play with Feodalism. Not if you don't want to loose out on all it's advantages.Originally posted by SirPleb
I think Feudalism may be getting under-estimated, it may turn out to be a strong early game government. It seems to me to be Monarchy with two differences: free unit support is flipped to favor towns, and rushing is by forced labor. That second part could be huge in some games! The chance to leave Despotism but retain pop rushing, hmmmm.
It definitely seems an early game government. Later in the game forced labor is less appealing (who wants to waste a gazillion citizens rushing an aircraft carrier
Since Feudalism will be unappealing for the long term, it will be an extra stepping stone with an extra period of anarchy. So I think it will have the most appeal to religious Civs, especially those going to war early in the game...
And as you say, it's advantages are the free unit support at town size, and the forced labor abilities which are good to have early on. BUT it got the War weariness from Republic, 3 cost per unit, low unit support with larger cites, and forced labor is not so good in the late game.
downwithgravity
Zen Rocker
i'm curious about the historical reason for why feudalism has such high cost per unit. why is it so high?
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