C3C Scenario/Mod: Rising Sun
- Thread starter Pawel
- Start date
Thanks for this extellent scenario,
I am playing it peacefully and am entering the modern age on emperor level, have been succesful in avoiding war since my golden age when I rolled up the Koreans. Tried to help the weaker brothers with a little tech here and there. Couldn't avoid the english being the far dominant civ though. (about 17% landmass but no far tech lead)
Although it is tempting to replay WW II with my kamikazes I want to win Diplomatic.
The only thing that is bugging me are the SS infantry.
Isn't this supposed to be for Germany only ? The whole map is filled with these defenders, which is good for the weaker civ's to be able to defend themselves against the stronger brothers, but you can name them 'machine gun infantry' or 'heavy infanrty'?
just my 2 yens,
highfidel
I am playing it peacefully and am entering the modern age on emperor level, have been succesful in avoiding war since my golden age when I rolled up the Koreans. Tried to help the weaker brothers with a little tech here and there. Couldn't avoid the english being the far dominant civ though. (about 17% landmass but no far tech lead)
Although it is tempting to replay WW II with my kamikazes I want to win Diplomatic.
The only thing that is bugging me are the SS infantry.
Isn't this supposed to be for Germany only ? The whole map is filled with these defenders, which is good for the weaker civ's to be able to defend themselves against the stronger brothers, but you can name them 'machine gun infantry' or 'heavy infanrty'?
just my 2 yens,
highfidel
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
Thanks! I am very glad that you like the scenario! And it is very interesting to hear comments about how the industrial and modern units are used.
The reasoning behind the SS infantry was to link it to an ideology (Fascism, or in the case of Germany, National Socialism) rather than to a civilization as such. Following the same line of thought the Guerilla unit has been moved to Communism.
The only ones that can't build the SS are the Americans. Instead they actually have a MG unit called Heavy Infantry that replaces their Infantry, which in turn replaces the Rifleman. To some extent this is due to the fact that there were two MG animations available in the PTW extras. To digress a little, I really worked a lot on optimizing the upgrade paths for this mod, and there are many changes if you take a close look.
Returning to the matter of the SS, however, I never considered it to be such a great unit. The reason for this is that it requires both Fascism and rubber, which doesn't become available until you have Replacable Parts. My assumption was that by the time the AI got that far it would be half way through the industrial era, and in modern times all the SS will probably get upgraded. Since Fascism is a very inefficient form of government in the Rising Sun (just as it was historically), and is an optional advance, I thought an incentive was needed for human players not to bypass it. (I always do.)
The idea was not, however, that the industrial era should be swamped by SS and Guerilla units. It would be interesting to know if this occurs very frequently. If so, at least a name change would certainly be a good idea. Could you tell me which scenario you played?
The reasoning behind the SS infantry was to link it to an ideology (Fascism, or in the case of Germany, National Socialism) rather than to a civilization as such. Following the same line of thought the Guerilla unit has been moved to Communism.
The only ones that can't build the SS are the Americans. Instead they actually have a MG unit called Heavy Infantry that replaces their Infantry, which in turn replaces the Rifleman. To some extent this is due to the fact that there were two MG animations available in the PTW extras. To digress a little, I really worked a lot on optimizing the upgrade paths for this mod, and there are many changes if you take a close look.
Returning to the matter of the SS, however, I never considered it to be such a great unit. The reason for this is that it requires both Fascism and rubber, which doesn't become available until you have Replacable Parts. My assumption was that by the time the AI got that far it would be half way through the industrial era, and in modern times all the SS will probably get upgraded. Since Fascism is a very inefficient form of government in the Rising Sun (just as it was historically), and is an optional advance, I thought an incentive was needed for human players not to bypass it. (I always do.)
The idea was not, however, that the industrial era should be swamped by SS and Guerilla units. It would be interesting to know if this occurs very frequently. If so, at least a name change would certainly be a good idea. Could you tell me which scenario you played?
As the human player I chose democracy when it became available. (just 1 revolution turn away from Constitutional monarchy which I used gratefully in the 'inter regnum').
The AI however had with half of the world a tech lead entering the industrial age. All exchanging Fascism. At the time we reached Replaceable parts the world was at relative peace. And upgraded (at least China, Byzantium, Iroquai, Spanish, Turks, Indians - well they are sitting on the Rubber - and England).
Does the SS upgrade to Mech ?
Too late for many.
I played the latest version in years
btw cheers for the upgrade-path-design, just my style
The AI however had with half of the world a tech lead entering the industrial age. All exchanging Fascism. At the time we reached Replaceable parts the world was at relative peace. And upgraded (at least China, Byzantium, Iroquai, Spanish, Turks, Indians - well they are sitting on the Rubber - and England).
Does the SS upgrade to Mech ?
Too late for many.
I played the latest version in years
btw cheers for the upgrade-path-design, just my style
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
I have changed the unit names. The former SS infantry is now Heavy Infantry and, since I couldn't come up with anything better, the US version is - US Heavy Infantry. In addition to this I also updated the Player Setup screen. The changes are too small to warrant another version number, but the new files will be available for download soon.
As to your question, the SS/Heavy Infantry does upgrade to Mech. Regular Infantry upgrades to TOW Infantry instead. This is an advantage both due to the different resource requirements, and just to have a larger variety of units in the game. This is also the reason why units don't upgrade to Heavy Infantry.
Anyway, I hope you will continue your game into the modern era. It would be interesting to hear your comments about other units, such as UAV:s, Special Forces, Attack Helicopters and Air Transports!
As to your question, the SS/Heavy Infantry does upgrade to Mech. Regular Infantry upgrades to TOW Infantry instead. This is an advantage both due to the different resource requirements, and just to have a larger variety of units in the game. This is also the reason why units don't upgrade to Heavy Infantry.
Anyway, I hope you will continue your game into the modern era. It would be interesting to hear your comments about other units, such as UAV:s, Special Forces, Attack Helicopters and Air Transports!
Sorry, I did not make it into the modern era far, this time, won diplomatic as planned. Pyong Yang, my shield powerhouse with Fac, Coal fac and Iron works build the United Nations when I was the first to discover Fission.
England saw it coming and declared, dragging along it's faitfull ally India.
I used my next turn to bully the rest of the world with my techs against them. (only Byzantines didn't join, I had nothing to offer them)
Held off the english fleet with my Kamikazes untill the vote in 1910.
It could have been an interesting play though, I didn't have Rubber nor Oil in the end. In WW II, the japanese had the same problem ? Making malaysia and Indonesia prime targets to conquer ? Although did not see an oil resource in Indonesia in this game. Should be !
About the upgrade path, did upgrade samurai to guerilla to SS ( now heavy infantry right ?)
thanks for the scenario,
will play another time with japanese on Deity with your newest version soon !
England saw it coming and declared, dragging along it's faitfull ally India.
I used my next turn to bully the rest of the world with my techs against them. (only Byzantines didn't join, I had nothing to offer them)
Held off the english fleet with my Kamikazes untill the vote in 1910.
It could have been an interesting play though, I didn't have Rubber nor Oil in the end. In WW II, the japanese had the same problem ? Making malaysia and Indonesia prime targets to conquer ? Although did not see an oil resource in Indonesia in this game. Should be !
About the upgrade path, did upgrade samurai to guerilla to SS ( now heavy infantry right ?)
thanks for the scenario,
will play another time with japanese on Deity with your newest version soon !
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
Sounds like a very nice victory! Congratulations!
I didn't make many changes to Kal-El's basic map. It has plenty of rubber in Malaysia and Indonesia, and I have now added oil on Borneo and Sumatra. A southern expansion should thus pay off in the long run.
The Samurai (iron) actually upgrades to Guard Infantry (saltpeter) - a new unit that comes with Constitutional Monarchy. This is in turn upgrades to Guerilla. The latter requires no resources, and acts as a cut off, making sure that no earlier units will be built. Another such cut off unit is the Rifleman. These two units both have two branches upgrading to them. Otherwise, all units along a branch have different resource requirements. This is especially important in the modern era. You would have seen it had you continued a few more turns. There you have the following land units to choose from:
Guerilla -> Heavy Infantry (rubber) -> Mech Infantry (rubber, oil)
Rifleman -> Infantry (rubber) -> TOW Infantry (aluminum)
Paratrooper (rubber) -> Modern Paratrooper (aluminum)
Naval Infantry (saltpeter) -> Marine (rubber) -> Special Forces (rubber, aluminum)
Attack Helicopter (oil, aluminum)
[Japanese] Tank (oil, rubber) -> Modern Armor (rubber, oil, aluminum)
Naval Infantry is an early Marine that comes with Navigation. You should always be able to build something! In earlier times there is, of course, even more variety - especially for Japan. But the role of the Samurai actually has changed considerably. It is no longer a cavalry unit. Instead, it is the Japanes version of the Knight - the Nakamaro Horseman - that upgrades to Japanese Cavalry. But the Samurai has some other nice features. The equivalent of Medieval Infantry is, however, another type of Samurai. This has the following upgrade path:
Minamoto Samurai (iron) -> Musket Infantry (saltpeter) -> Guerilla
The spearman and archer branches are the ones that end up as riflemen. The predecessors of the paratrooper line are warrior monks, spies, and ninjas. The details are in the civilopedia!
I will update the files again to include the extra oil. And I look forward to hearing about your experiences in the next game!
I didn't make many changes to Kal-El's basic map. It has plenty of rubber in Malaysia and Indonesia, and I have now added oil on Borneo and Sumatra. A southern expansion should thus pay off in the long run.
The Samurai (iron) actually upgrades to Guard Infantry (saltpeter) - a new unit that comes with Constitutional Monarchy. This is in turn upgrades to Guerilla. The latter requires no resources, and acts as a cut off, making sure that no earlier units will be built. Another such cut off unit is the Rifleman. These two units both have two branches upgrading to them. Otherwise, all units along a branch have different resource requirements. This is especially important in the modern era. You would have seen it had you continued a few more turns. There you have the following land units to choose from:
Guerilla -> Heavy Infantry (rubber) -> Mech Infantry (rubber, oil)
Rifleman -> Infantry (rubber) -> TOW Infantry (aluminum)
Paratrooper (rubber) -> Modern Paratrooper (aluminum)
Naval Infantry (saltpeter) -> Marine (rubber) -> Special Forces (rubber, aluminum)
Attack Helicopter (oil, aluminum)
[Japanese] Tank (oil, rubber) -> Modern Armor (rubber, oil, aluminum)
Naval Infantry is an early Marine that comes with Navigation. You should always be able to build something! In earlier times there is, of course, even more variety - especially for Japan. But the role of the Samurai actually has changed considerably. It is no longer a cavalry unit. Instead, it is the Japanes version of the Knight - the Nakamaro Horseman - that upgrades to Japanese Cavalry. But the Samurai has some other nice features.
The equivalent of Medieval Infantry is, however, another type of Samurai. This has the following upgrade path:Minamoto Samurai (iron) -> Musket Infantry (saltpeter) -> Guerilla
The spearman and archer branches are the ones that end up as riflemen. The predecessors of the paratrooper line are warrior monks, spies, and ninjas. The details are in the civilopedia!
I will update the files again to include the extra oil. And I look forward to hearing about your experiences in the next game!
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
All three scenarios now have 3 terrain options: Standard Civ, Sn00py's Terrain 4.5, and Warpstorm Watercolor Terrain MkII
Actually, only the files that update the terrain from![[ptw]](/images/smilies/ptw.gif "PTW Icon [ptw]")
to ![[c3c]](/images/smilies/c3c.gif "Civ3 Conquests [c3c]")
are included. This helps in limiting the size of the basic scenario to just 7 MB. The extras now also replace the standard Modern Paratrooper animation with Balou's classic Parachutiste. All the cumulative updates from version 2.6 are, of course, also there - as well as some other minor changes.
Hopefully the new version will not only give new players more opions, but also make the game more enjoyable for returning players.
Actually, only the files that update the terrain from
to are included. This helps in limiting the size of the basic scenario to just 7 MB. The extras now also replace the standard Modern Paratrooper animation with Balou's classic Parachutiste. All the cumulative updates from version 2.6 are, of course, also there - as well as some other minor changes.Hopefully the new version will not only give new players more opions, but also make the game more enjoyable for returning players.
hey pawel.....I have played the game several times and enjoyed untill I get far into the game and the turns slow down, I have pentuim 4HT with 1gb memory so its probably just me.....but overall It is one of the best games I have played...........Great Job!!!
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
Thank you very much! I am glad you liked it!
I am afraid that when you get far into a game with many civs and lots of units things slow down... Of course, your turns also take a little longer so hopefully it evens out at least a little.
And compared to other, less balanced, scenarios on larger maps this one isn't too bad. 
And the Monk is cool, isn't he?
I am afraid that when you get far into a game with many civs and lots of units things slow down... Of course, your turns also take a little longer so hopefully it evens out at least a little.
And compared to other, less balanced, scenarios on larger maps this one isn't too bad. And the Monk is cool, isn't he?
kevin2350
Chieftain
hi,
I have just downloaded 2.6.2 and when I try to play it tells me that kabuki_theatre from civilopedia icons buildings is missing and it quits.
where can I get the missing item?
forgot to mention that I also have extras installed
I have just downloaded 2.6.2 and when I try to play it tells me that kabuki_theatre from civilopedia icons buildings is missing and it quits.
where can I get the missing item?
forgot to mention that I also have extras installed
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
Hi,
The icons for the Kabuki Theatre can be found in the directory of the Sengoku Conquest:
Civilization III\Conquests\Conquests\Sengoku\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\Buildings
I also attach the two icons. However, if you for some reason no longer have the Sengoku directory, it will probably keep complaining. The scenario actually uses additional graphics from most of the Conquests, so they have to be in place...
I hope this helps. Please let me know how things go.
The icons for the Kabuki Theatre can be found in the directory of the Sengoku Conquest:
Civilization III\Conquests\Conquests\Sengoku\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\Buildings
I also attach the two icons. However, if you for some reason no longer have the Sengoku directory, it will probably keep complaining. The scenario actually uses additional graphics from most of the Conquests, so they have to be in place...
I hope this helps. Please let me know how things go.
kevin2350
Chieftain
Now it tells me that the pedialcon text kabuki_theatre is missing.
Have I installed the Mod incorrectly?
I copied the kabukitheatre texts from sengoku but there was no kabuki_theatre text.
Have I installed the Mod incorrectly?
I copied the kabukitheatre texts from sengoku but there was no kabuki_theatre text.
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
Well, I don't know how you installed the mod. Quoting the Installation.txt file:
Unzip the Rising_Sun scenario file to the Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios directory. The full path to the Civilization III directory is usually something like C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III. If you have downloaded the Rising_Sun_extras, unzip the file to the Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios\Rising Sun directory after the scenario files.
Since you replaced the the correct scenario text files with those from Sengoku you will have to re-install anyway, because there is no way it will work with the wrong files in place.
Once you do that, have a look in the text/pediaicons.txt file. You will see the path to the kabuki icons. To look for the base directories, look at the properties of your scenario file, and you will find the "scenario seach folders". For the files using standard terrain it will look like this:
Rising Sun;..\;..\..\civ3ptw;..\..\;..\..\civ3ptw\extras\Medieval Japan;..\Conquests\WWII in the Pacific;..\Conquests\Napoleonic Europe;..\Conquests\Rise of Rome;..\Conquests\Middle Ages;..\Conquests\Age of Discovery;..\..\civ3ptw\extras\World War II
The second entry, "..\", indicates the Conquests directory. This is why it is important that the scenario is installed in the Conquests/Scenarios direcory and that the Conquests are in their original place.
This is clever since it allows me to use 100 MB of additional graphics that I don't have to distribute with the scenario, but it requires a standard installation. Now that you know how the scenario is designed technically, please check the directories again!
Unzip the Rising_Sun scenario file to the Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios directory. The full path to the Civilization III directory is usually something like C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III. If you have downloaded the Rising_Sun_extras, unzip the file to the Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios\Rising Sun directory after the scenario files.
Since you replaced the the correct scenario text files with those from Sengoku you will have to re-install anyway, because there is no way it will work with the wrong files in place.
Once you do that, have a look in the text/pediaicons.txt file. You will see the path to the kabuki icons. To look for the base directories, look at the properties of your scenario file, and you will find the "scenario seach folders". For the files using standard terrain it will look like this:
Rising Sun;..\;..\..\civ3ptw;..\..\;..\..\civ3ptw\extras\Medieval Japan;..\Conquests\WWII in the Pacific;..\Conquests\Napoleonic Europe;..\Conquests\Rise of Rome;..\Conquests\Middle Ages;..\Conquests\Age of Discovery;..\..\civ3ptw\extras\World War II
The second entry, "..\", indicates the Conquests directory. This is why it is important that the scenario is installed in the Conquests/Scenarios direcory and that the Conquests are in their original place.
This is clever since it allows me to use 100 MB of additional graphics that I don't have to distribute with the scenario, but it requires a standard installation. Now that you know how the scenario is designed technically, please check the directories again!
Bob1475
Prince
Pawel
Daimyo
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2003
- Messages
- 625
Hi,
I am glad you liked the scenario! Which one are you playing? How are things going?
As for your problem, you are right that the German Machine Gunner is part of the PTW extras. It can be found in the Civilization III\CIV3PTW\extras\World War II\Art\Units\German Heavy Machinegunner directory. In the Rising Sun, this animation is used for Heavy Infantry. As you can see from the discussion above, this was earlier called SS Infantry but was renamed. It seemed to work for highfidel, though, and it does when I test it at home. In order for me to help you will have to give me a litte more details!
Maybe you could also post a little smaller version of the picture instead? This one takes a long time to load...
I am glad you liked the scenario! Which one are you playing? How are things going?
As for your problem, you are right that the German Machine Gunner is part of the PTW extras. It can be found in the Civilization III\CIV3PTW\extras\World War II\Art\Units\German Heavy Machinegunner directory. In the Rising Sun, this animation is used for Heavy Infantry. As you can see from the discussion above, this was earlier called SS Infantry but was renamed. It seemed to work for highfidel, though, and it does when I test it at home. In order for me to help you will have to give me a litte more details!
Maybe you could also post a little smaller version of the picture instead? This one takes a long time to load...
Bob1475
Prince
Hi, I was originally playing Japan in the 1200 game. Then tried as Byzantine in the 400 game. These are Warpstorm graphics.
They have both crashed (after playing into the 1700s) with the same message -
LOAD ERROR
FILE NOT FOUND
"Art\Units\German Heavy Machinegunner\German Heavy Machinegunner.INI"
Game will now exit.
I checked and for some reason my PTW installation has Medieval Japan units in the extras file but not the WW2 units. I will see if I can find my PTW disk - do I need to do a full reinstall?
They have both crashed (after playing into the 1700s) with the same message -
LOAD ERROR
FILE NOT FOUND
"Art\Units\German Heavy Machinegunner\German Heavy Machinegunner.INI"
Game will now exit.
I checked and for some reason my PTW installation has Medieval Japan units in the extras file but not the WW2 units. I will see if I can find my PTW disk - do I need to do a full reinstall?
Bob1475
Prince
Reinstalled PTW. Everything OK now. Playing Byzantine on Regent level. In the lead, having fun!
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