can any give descriptions of 17th century armies?

Xen

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I want to know what armies wer elike in the 17th, and 18th centuries; what sorts of troops comprised them, what weapons and technology they had, and what tactics they engaged in, and pictures are always welcome; I hope someone around here can help in this regard....

their istn any aprticuler naiton for tactics, though if one was going to choose one, G.B, Portugal, and Spain would be most appropreate
 
My understanding of that period's armed forces is pretty much driven by the armies of the 30 years war.

The basic arms were matchlocks and pikes for infantry, wheel locks and edged weapons for the cavlary and arty consisting of cast canons. The typical army was composed of these three elements, horse, pike and shot. Until the 17th century the pike was considered the queen of the battlefield, however, the development of arqubuses had begun to move the pike to a supporting role.

They complemented each other: the pike and horse provided protection for the shot, who were extremely vulnerable to attack. Reloading is time-consuming, and without cover arquebusiers will be run down by cavalry. However, with cover on broken terrain, the arquebusiers can pick off horsemen with little to fear from the long lance. The horse provide mobility and striking power, the pikes a powerful defense. The ideal proportions of horse to pike to shot in an army were frequently debated. However, horse, as the most expensive, was always the smallest component, and became smaller as the century wore on. Among the infantry, the proportions of pike to shot changed over the years as well. How to integrate firearms with pikes was one of the technical issues of the day, with firearms becoming a more and more prominent component over time. By the seventeenth century, two-thirds of the infantry would be firearms.

Cavalry had mutated from the armored knight to the model of the german cuirasser. Although some still armed themselves with lances, the typical horseman carried multiple single shot weapons and edged weapons. The usual tactic was a charge, fire and wheel manuever called a "caracole". This is performed by a squadron of many ranks. The first rank comes up to the enemy, fires, then wheels off to reload and reform. Cavalry were used on battlefield but also were used as skirmishers, scouts and raiders.

The Spanish were considered the greatest army of the time and thier tactics were considered the model. During that period, the Hapsburgs were seeking to establish hegemony over Europe, and thier armies were in play throughout the continent.

The Spanish "Tercio" was a combination pikes and arqubuses. The pikemen formed the heart of the formation with arquebusiers arrayed on the flanks. The arquebusiers' principal duty was to fend off pistol-wielding cavalry and match volleys with enemy gunmen. Thier main goal was to keep the pikes intact until their final charge, which would decide the battle.

Some final notes.

Most of the armies of the time were mercenary armies. The costs associated with fielding these armies soon made finance vitally important. Also, along with mercenary armies came the problems of sack and plunder. Victorious battles could be lost after the fact when an army disbanded due to pay in arrears.

The combat of the time was dominated more by seige warfare than by actual field battles. Strategy was considered an art of manuever and supply.

Edited Due to putting 100 years war instead of 30 years war.
 
To add a little to joycem10's description:

Another feature which began to come to the fore in late 17th century armies was the "dragoon". Not dragoons in the Napoleonic sense (which were to all intents just normal medium/heavy cavalry), but mounted infantry. They would ride to battle, using their horses to obtain strategic and tactical mobility, then dismount* to fight using carbines **

* Usually a section of six men would have five men firing and another one holding all six horses.

** Normally wheel-locks or, latterly, snaphances (early flintlocks). A carbine has a shorter barrel than a musket for ease of transport on horseback. This gives it a reduced range and accuracy (compared with 17th century muskets, which were themselves pretty inaccurate at anything above 20 metres), so that dragoons were less effective in a firefight than infantry, but their mobility generally more than made up for this.
 
Some pics...

Pikemen in period costumes. Looks to be English Civil War.

Arquebusiers in Swedish colors.

Gustavus Adolphus exhorting his troops before the Battle of Breintefeld.
 
Awesome! thank you both very, very much :)
 
Good post in general joyce10. Especially about the "Spanish school" of warfare.:) A number of comments though. Most of them due to what I know of the army of Gustavus Adolphus (the Swedish intervention 1630-1648).
joycem10 said:
horse, as the most expensive, was always the smallest component, and became smaller as the century wore on.
Actually as the 30 years war dragged on in the German theater, armies tended to get smaller but much more reliant on horses. When the Swedish king landed on Rügen in 1630, he commanded an infantry army of something like 30.000+ troops, and a much smaller cavalry. A few years later Johan Banér had a string of Swedish vicrories rarely commanding more than 8-9000 troops, but most of these were mounted; not cavalry for the most part, they didn't fight on horseback.
joycem10 said:
Among the infantry, the proportions of pike to shot changed over the years as well. How to integrate firearms with pikes was one of the technical issues of the day, with firearms becoming a more and more prominent component over time. By the seventeenth century, two-thirds of the infantry would be firearms.
The big Dutch invention in the late 16th c. was the volley fire (possibly independantly invented in Japan, battle of Nagashino 1576). This started the increase in the musketeer to pikeman ratio and the development of battlefield infantry tactis reliant on superior fire-power. Accuracy wasn't the aim, but speed. Drill was designed to decrease reloading time to increase the rate of fire. During the 18th c. muskets were shortened in the race to reduce reloading time.

The Swedes learned all they could from the Dutch and the refined it, making the Swedish army the first to try to win battle through fire-power. (Smaller units, a huge increase in the number of musketeers with only a thin screen of pikemen to protect them while reloading. The idea was to blast the opponent to pieces.)

But the real break through for them was probabaly the artillery, like JohnMacleod has pointed out. The Swedish artillery was the real high-tech, innovative branch of the army. Tactically what they aimed for was having lots and lots of light field artillery pieces. The "leather gun" was an early attempt. This was a metal tube sourrounded by layer upon layer of cured leather. It was light and manouverable, but not very durable or accurate it seems. In the end Sweden settled for light cast iron guns, usually three-pounders. It had been a dream for gunmakers to be able to cast guns out of cheap iron instead of expensive bronze. Problem was, most iron contained so many impurities it made the metal to brittle to be useful in a gun. They would crack, often killing their crew. Here Sweden was helped by providence, being the only nation in Europe in posession of mines full of pure, high-grade iron ore. (The other known place at the time was India.)
So Sweden produced huge numbers of these guns (unintentionally almost discovering standardisation, not by design, but as a product of the scale of the manufacture). They were distributed through the army, each regiment was supplied with its own pieces (another first). Usually they would fire shrapnel, and they were light enough to be moved around by two horses, and redirected by a few men. Most artillery of the other armies at the time were few, huge and heavy made out of bronze. These were lugged into place before the battle. You wouldn't want to get in their line of fire, but once in position, they stayed there and often they couldn't even be redirected if their fire power was needed elsewhere.

The Swedish artillery tactics were a huge success, and so was the manufacture of artillery pieces, making Sweden the worlds largest exporter of artillery in the 17th century. (Sweden even sold artillery to the Indians in North America from the colony of New Sweden, what is today Delaware.)
joycem10 said:
Cavalry had mutated from the armored knight to the model of the german cuirasser. Although some still armed themselves with lances, the typical horseman carried multiple single shot weapons and edged weapons. The usual tactic was a charge, fire and wheel manuever called a "caracole". This is performed by a squadron of many ranks. The first rank comes up to the enemy, fires, then wheels off to reload and reform. Cavalry were used on battlefield but also were used as skirmishers, scouts and raiders.
Yes, but the "caracol" was also the cavalry tactic that was replaced by a reliance on "bare steel" and speed. The caracol wasn't a charge, it was usually done at a canter. Later, 18th-19th centuries, cavalry wasn't caracolling anymore, but relied on the charge, edged weapons out (or lances), knee to knee, at full tilt (if the horsemen had the skill. British cavalry during the Napoleonic wars were contemptous of the French cav. that often attacked at a canter because their rideing skills were too bad to handle anything else.)

Again, this kind of cavalry tactics were pioneered by the Swedish army. (The Finnish cavalry was particularily renowned.) Partly because because Sweden couldn't afford to arm their horsemen with eleaborate armour (you would get a stiff coat of moose leather) and the expensive pistols (you got a sword, and if someone shot at you, hope he'd miss, charge and put the sword in him). This meant lighter horsemen, less protected, on smaller and cheaper horses, attacking at higher speeds. When fighting armoured heavy cavalry head on they were at a disadvantage, but in a flank attack, and especially if they were set upon retreating infantry, they were deadly.

But once massive fire power became available, cavalry was reduced to the classical role of later wars: scouting, skirmishing and protecting the flanks. It was infantry and artillery that would win the battles.
joycem10 said:
The Spanish were considered the greatest army of the time and thier tactics were considered the model. During that period, the Hapsburgs were seeking to establish hegemony over Europe, and thier armies were in play throughout the continent.
Absolutely, which also meant that their defeat by Dutch, Swedes etc. was a bit of a shock. The Imperial armies didn't stick to what was known as the "Spanish school" but reformed and in the end resembled their adversaries.
joycem10 said:
The Spanish "Tercio" was a combination pikes and arqubuses. The pikemen formed the heart of the formation with arquebusiers arrayed on the flanks. The arquebusiers' principal duty was to fend off pistol-wielding cavalry and match volleys with enemy gunmen. Thier main goal was to keep the pikes intact until their final charge, which would decide the battle.
Which worked fine, until faced with an enemy that wouldn't get into that kind of "shoving contest", but was content to massacre them from a distance with musket and artillery fire. (Breitenfeld 1632) The Dutch and the Swedes (and later Cromwells New Model Army if I've understood correctly) inversed the roles of pike and musket. In these armies it was the pikemens job to protect the musketeers from other pikemen, cavalry etc. The musketeers would then blow everything sent against them to Kingdom Come. This was the way of the future. Towards the end of the 17th c. the pike was replaced by the new invention the bayonet, making the musketeers their own pikemen.
joycem10 said:
Most of the armies of the time were mercenary armies. The costs associated with fielding these armies soon made finance vitally important. Also, along with mercenary armies came the problems of sack and plunder. Victorious battles could be lost after the fact when an army disbanded due to pay in arrears.
Exactly. Another important factor was supply. In a place like Germany were the war had raged for a while, operations were often decided on the basis of where the army could be supplied through plunder, usually the only means to do so. Failure to plan ahead destroyed more armies than the fighting. The Imperial general Gallas was nicknamed "der Heerzerstörer", "the Destroyer of Armies", at the court in Vienna. Of course, he never destroyed any of the enemies armies, only his own, and usually by marching them of into some place where they couldn't be supplied. He was a bit simple, but unflinchingly loyal to the Emperor so he remained in command. More clever an ambitious generals (Wallenstein, Piccolmini) were distrusted, and it seems with reason. (Too keen on setting themselves up as rulers of something.)
joycem10 said:
The combat of the time was dominated more by seige warfare than by actual field battles. Strategy was considered an art of manuever and supply.
Commanders at the time would talk about "hazarding a battle", i.e. the thought of the battles not as the best means of destroying the enemy, but as a gamble. Once started, commanders never really could control events, and there was always the risk that it would end in disaster. Consequnelty, the good generals only fought pitched battles when they were out of options. It was much better to harass the enemy, reduce his strong points and try to manouver him into a place were he couldn't feed his men.

It could also be added that the way armies fought varied considerably across Europe. In eastern Europe an almosy medieval reliance on cavalry remained into the second half of the 17th century. The noblemen that made up the Polish cavalry were extremely successful fighting Russians, Turks etc. Their attitude towards infantry continued to be that of speed bumps to be ridden over. It's been said that the last charge of the medieval knight was made by the Hungarian "haiduks" at the three day battle of Warsaw against the Swedish infantry/artillery based army in the 1650's.
 
Verbose, Gustavus Adolphus may have been the greatest military/political leader of the time. You have to wonder how different Europe would look today if he had survived Lutzen and developed the means to bring some order to central Europe.

Surely he dwarfs anyone from the imperial side although Wallenstein's cunning and ambition were quite notable.
 
perhas some woudl liek to explain in more detial as to whom this "Gustavus Adolphus" was, his military exploites, what side he was on, and why he fighting and what not in the firs tplace... he certianlly seems liek an interesting character
 
Given the above I think that Verbose could probably give you a better scetch, but I'll give it a go...

King of Sweden from the late 16th century until his battlefield death at Lutzen in 1632. He was a brillant battlefield commander and a revolutionary in the strategy and tactics of war. He has been called the father of modern warfare and credited with many innovations (see Vebose's post).

Early in his reign he prosecuted successful wars (which he inherited) with Denmark, Poland, and Russia.

Alot of the history of Gustavus revolves around the history of the 30 years war and the Reformation and Counter-reformation. It is not one war, but a series of conflicts with many phases between states and leagues of states. Without going to far into the background, suffice it to say that it was superficially a conflict about what religion would be practiced in what area of central europe. The war came to encompass the Hapsburg attempt to dominate the Holy Roman Empire and Europe as a whole and France's attempt to counter.

Sweden entered the war late in the game after Gustavus became concerned about Hapsburg power in the Baltic and the rights of Protestants in the German principalities. Sweden was a Lutheran country. He was subsidized by the French who were hoping to counter the Hapsburgs.

He was not welcomed by the Germans until the Sack of Magdeburg by Imperial (Hapsburg) forces, which resulted in the near total destruction of the city. After Magdeburg, the Protestant princes, most notably John of Saxony, joined Gustavus forces and met the imperial armies at Brietenfeld. In what is considered one of the most decisive battles in European history, Gustavus managed to rally the Swedish portion of his army after the routing of his Saxon left flank and won the day.

Gutavus died in 1632 at the Batlle of Lutzen after being killed while leading a cavalry charge against Imperial forces commanded by Wallenstein. The Swedes, showing thier discipline, were able to continue on with the battle and defeated Wallenstein's forces.

Gustavus is credited with forming a true professional national army featuring permanant units, rather than the standard mercenary army of the day. He kept abreast of weapons development and adapted weaponry and tactics (see Verbose's post) and adopted his enemies weaponry and tactics when suited. He was the best military commander of the age, built a goverment and army which survived his untimely death, and earned the respect of his people and his soldiers.

(Edited thanks to mrtn)
 
joycem10 said:
...Early in his reign he prosecuted successful wars (which he inherited) with Denmark, Poland, and Sweden.
...
Maybe you mean Denmark, Poland, and Russia? G2A tried to get his brother chosen as Tsar, but he was half a year late...
 
joycem10: Good post! :goodjob:

What I can add is something about the conditions for fielding the army. And the dates for Gustavus Adolphus (Gustaf II Adolf in Swedish), king of Sweden, reigned 1611-1632. He came to the throne only 17 years old after the death of his father Charles IX. Sweden at the time was a war with Russia (over the Baltic states), Denmark-Norway (as usual, over the position as top dog in Scandinavia) and with Poland (a dynastic family feud). He beat them all, and on top of that he made peace with the higher nobility of Sweden. (Up in arms against his father after the "Linköping bloodbath" in 1597).

As stated Gustavus Adolphus was a military genius and the Swedish army racked up a long list of "firsts". However, the real genius behind this wasn't Gustavus Adolphus but his chancellor count Axel Oxenstierna, the man who ran the country while the king was off fighting and continued to do so after the king's death.

Oxenstierna had nothing to do with the reform of army. Instead he was the administrative and diplomatic genius that made it possible for Sweden, population 1,5 million, to at any given time field a standing army of 150.000 troops. (This isn't a typo.) And this from a country that was poor by all standards of the day. The way he did it was by giving Sweden the most modern and efficient administration of its day.

Sweden's administration is still run today according to the system put in place by Oxenstierna. A bit ironic, since all Oxenstierna ever did was designed to feed the wars.
Parliamentary democracy etc. has been grafted on top of the administrative structire of the 17th century. Which is more or less the same as any modern first-world state has got. But Sweden aquiered one a century or more ahead of everyone else, and the payoff was huge.
Good administration was the reason Sweden could function as great power for a century. Of course, as soon as everyone else started to catch up the jig was up an Sweden quickly slipped to a second rate European power. There was just no way to compensate for the lack of wealth and manpower anymore.

So, Gustavus Adolphus impressive army wouldn't have existed without the reforms in internal adiministration making them at all possible, and these were the work of Oxenstierna. His and the king's partnership is probabaly the most successful in Swedish history.
And Oxenstierna was extremely highly regarded in his own time as well. Cardinal Mazarin, his French counterpart, once said that if all the chancellors of Europe found themselves aboard a ship and had to decide who was going to captain it, if you went by brains and skill, command would have to be handed to the Swedish chancellor.
 
joycem10 said:
Verbose, Gustavus Adolphus may have been the greatest military/political leader of the time. You have to wonder how different Europe would look today if he had survived Lutzen and developed the means to bring some order to central Europe.
It's possible that he might have become king at least of the protestant North German states, which would have embroiled Sweden deeply in comtinental politics. It could have given Sweden the wealth and population ity lacked. If his chancellor Oxenstierna had been unleashed to get Northern Germany properly organised as a set of Swedish provinces, then it just might have remained a great power.

This would probably have come at the price of shifting the political centre down into Germany and might have meant that modern Sweden would have been a Germanspeaking country around the Baltic. And there probabaly would never have been a Prussia. Instead there would have been centuries of warfare between this German Sweden and Russia.

It would likely have meant the (even more) rapid decline of the Habsburgs. This Great Sweden and France would pretty much have been able to carve up Europe. And the questions is if the triangle France-Sweden-Ottomans wouldn't have been able to keep Russia down in the 18th and 19th centuries. Britain would probably have been involved allied with Russia.
 
Some excellent posts in this thread, so I just want to add a "big picture" point; the 17th century saw a huge revolution in armies that really wouldn't make itself fully felt until the end of the century, and even moreso in the 18th century. This revolution wasn't so much in technologies or tactics - although these were impacted by this change - but rather in how armies were paid for.

Medieval European armies were a collection of vassal knights and their retinues, local peasant conscripts and, most importantly, mercenaries - professional soldiers who earned a living like itinerant salesmen by traveling around the Continent offering their military services to whoever could pay them. During campaigning seasons rulers would have to cough up huge amounts of wealth to raise the armies necessary for their ambitions, but when the campaigning seasons ended these armies typically melted away, having to be re-coinstituted the next year. It was not unusual and a very acceptable practice of medieval warfare for opponents to secretly negotiate with each others' forces to try to offer better pay to your enemies' mercenaries, and indeed sometimes parts of or whole armies would switch sides in the middle of a campaign. A determined general had to constantly have sufficient wealth on hand to fend off rivals' offers.

With the massive influx of Spanish (South American) silver in the 16th century however, coupled with the onset of ideological (religious) wars with the Protestant Reformation, the traditional campaign season was increasingly ignored and rulers had to maintain armies all year round - something only a handful could afford to do. Saving the day (in the long Dutch war of independence) was a revolution in financing that created the first securities markets - which gave state rulers the financial power to drop the mercenaries completely and create their own state-maintained professional armies, year-round. This also led to the first standardizations in equipment and uniforms - both by military necessity, not show - and the first effective control by sovereigns/states over field strategies and tactics. Modern military innovations like the general staff were just around the corner, a natural result. The Thirty Years war showed a mixture of both medieval and "modern" armies fighting, but by the time of Louis XIV all European powers had adapted to the new military reality.

This phenomenon is particularly focused for the Eastern European states (at least, those as which managed to survive the 16th and 17th centuries), as this phenomenon of the absorption of military duties and necessities by the state and their professionalization became the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back as the medieval economies of countries like 17th century Poland-Lithuania could not afford these new armies, and could not therefore compete in crucial political and military arenas with other, newer European powers. It is the point at which "Eastern Europe" began to fall behind the West, and the differences in living standards that would develop from this eventually opened into a chasm. This BTW also holds true for the Ottoman Empire, which also failed to adapt fully to the modern militaries of Europe; in the 16th century the Ottoman armies were among the strongest and most potent on the Continent, but in the late 17th century War of the Holy League (1683-1699) they were repeatedly humiliated and driven from significant portions of their Balkan empire.
 
Vrylakas:
Thank you. I'm always happy when discussions about military matters arond here goes beyond discussions about tactics, hardware and the merits of individual commanders! :goodjob:
 
possiblly; plexus NES is okay, but I myself have longf wanted for an NES starting full tilt in the renassiance, and going on till the end of the enlightnement, at least
 
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