Can Barbarian Units Heal?

[Sarisin]

This must seem like Stupid Question #119 with the obvious answer, "of course they can, you twit!"

But, consider the following:

How many times have you seen a promoted barb unit at full strength? Usually, they are damaged after they win a battle, but instead of waiting around to heal to full strength, they attack again, and are usually killed. Mounted barb units that have withdrawn from battle are another example. Their strength is usually a bit above 0, yet they still attack next turn and are killed. Why don't they rest up and regain their strength?

So, you say, it is bad AI. The barb units choose to die rather than heal. Maybe that is it, I guess???

But, what about this?

I love this mod because there are so many combinations and strategies you can come up with.

For example, in my current game, I am playing Charadon/Doviello with the Barbarian trait. I got lucky with goodie huts and was able to get Assassins early on. So, I built a few, and decided to follow Orthus around, declaring war on the AI civs he entered.

I 'helped' him and his small band of barb units take down Cassiel and Cardith Lorda. I figured if they did kill Orthus my Assassins would be there to quickly retrieve his Axe.

Well, the bizarre happened.

On the way to his next civ to conquer, Orthus took a bad step. He happened to step on to a Bear Den. Off the Bear went and Orthus got guard duty. Aside from the fact that this is terribly wrong in the first place, let me get back on topic.

When Orthus landed on the den his strength was 4+. I waited around a dozen or so turns for him to get relieved by another unit/animal.

During the 12+ turns, his strength did not increase. He did not heal.

Why didn't Orthus heal while he was standing on the Bear Den?

Which brings me back to Stupid Question #119 above.

I finally got tired of waiting, moved on, and sure enough about 25 turns later saw the message that (an UNHEALED) Orthus had lost his Axe!

 

[Calavente]

that's fun

I can imagine Orthus the mighty orc, mincing meat for many little bear cubs ... and changing their diappers...

but aside of that... it's a nice piece of info... I will take notice of what happens in my game (hopefully it's a 0.23c thingy and I won't see it)

Cala.

Edit: I really thought it was that #119 SQwtOA. I was happy to be disaappointed... nicely done.

 

[onedreamer]

yeah this has been brought up already especially in regards of Orthus. Although I can say that he does heal, but only if he takes a city without razing. Hopefully BtS AI will help with this.

 

[Caradoc]

Animals seem to heal up on their own.

 

[Pocus]

I have seen the third Horseman wait some turns (healing) after a tough fight before resuming his rampage.

 

[Sarisin]

It's not just Orthus who will not heal when pulling guard duty on a den.

I fireballed a barb Ogre and an Orc Crossbowman. Both were damaged and not killed. Many turns later, although they remained stationary, they had not healed at all.

 

[Sarisin]

I have seen the third Horseman wait some turns (healing) after a tough fight before resuming his rampage.

The 3rd Horseman, but not the 1st, 2nd, or the 4th?

Seems a little strange, doesn't it?

I've found the Horsemen, like most, if not all barb units, keep attacking until they are killed rather than healing, then attacking.

I guess it is poor AI rather than a matter of not healing, although I'm not sure what happens when damaged barb units remain on guard duty on dens.

 

[onedreamer]

it might be that AI units will heal only if damaged more than 50% ?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I was wondering, could the BtS AI understand negative healing (as from plague, disease, or entropy mana in enemy territory), so that we could allow it again? In Rhye's Russia's power causes negative healing, so it may be possible.

 

[onedreamer]

I'm not sure what you mean with "AI understand negative healing", but I think that Russia's UP is intended so that enemy units that enter their territory are weakened, so the AI shouldn't really understand anything about this (unless you mean the attacking AI should understand that an injured unit is easier to kill ?).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

No, I mean can it understand how to heal these units. Kael said he was making negative healing impossible because when an AI unit is damaged it will stay in place until fully healed. With negative healing from entropy mana, this means that the AI would not continue any invasions into enemy territory one its units are weakened, but would leave them in place until they die. The Russian UP in Rhye's and the need for special supply wagons to allow healing in the Charlemagne senario made me think that the AI might now be better at understanding that this is not the right way to heal.

 

[onedreamer]

it's not so general, it depends on many factors. It's rare that the AI stays and heal in enemy territory, and I think it won't do it if there aren't healed units to protect the healing ones. Also, if the AI would know how to neutralize negative healing, Russian's UP would be useless.

 

[AOLBITES]

I've had this with some of my units that were fortified, they just stay fortified and injured for ages and ages without healing .. if I forget to set them to heal..

 

[vorshlumpf]

You don't need to set a unit to heal in order for them to heal. If a unit doesn't move, it heals.

 

[Sarisin]

You don't need to set a unit to heal in order for them to heal. If a unit doesn't move, it heals.

Unless it is a barbarian unit. See above - the part about injured barb units guarding dens/lairs, for example.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Yes, of course.

 

[Sureshot]

Unless it is a barbarian unit. See above - the part about injured barb units guarding dens/lairs, for example.

maybe the method it uses to keep a single unit on dens/lairs is to take away the movement points of the first unit it finds on it? that would explain why it doesnt heal, since only units that have full movement without moving heal (unless they have march)

 

[calmon]

I play the clan in moment and i noticed that several barbarian units don't heal even if stand still.

The red dragon for example got some wounds and it never heals. I had a scout in his lair and the dragon defend his lair very well but because he never heals he was slain after a couple of turns.

 

[Loderunner]

I recently played a game where I had raging barbs turning off. I noticed that a warrior stopped to heal after he killed my scout. I think it has to do with the fact that raging barbs does two things: Many more barbs, obviously, and they are aggressive. I think it's a case where the aggressiveness, where they b-line to the nearest city, overrides everything else. Non-agg barbs just kind of wander around aimlessly. Consequently, this can make Orthus very tough. It gives him time to gain promos.

 

[Sarisin]

I recently played a game where I had raging barbs turning off. I noticed that a warrior stopped to heal after he killed my scout. I think it has to do with the fact that raging barbs does two things: Many more barbs, obviously, and they are aggressive. I think it's a case where the aggressiveness, where they b-line to the nearest city, overrides everything else. Non-agg barbs just kind of wander around aimlessly. Consequently, this can make Orthus very tough. It gives him time to gain promos.

That's an interesting theory. It has been so long since I played a game without raging barbs, I can't remember how it works.

This still doesn't answer the healing question though for barb units which are stopped and do not heal. For example, den guards, Orthus, Acheron, etc.

Was it because of raging barbs being selected? I'm not sure as they were certainly not being aggressive. But, maybe the raging barb option prevents barbs from healing????