Can revolting civs not vassalize instantly?

[HayRoss]

I love the idea of civs revolting and creating new civs, but it's frustrating when a civ revolts out of my empire and instantly decides "Hey you know what? We've been independent for about 5 minutes now. This independence thing sucks. We should become a vassal state". Maybe like a 50 turn timer for newly formed nations out of revolt that means they can't become vassal states during this time. It's frustrating when a part of your empire breaks away, more so when they immediately become a vassal

 

[SpartanU]

I prefer the way it stands now, I use the civil war mechanic to my advantage during war to turn a portion of the enemy's forces against them. Even in peace, it ties in especially well with espionage-oriented civs that can destroy improvements, and cause dissent to potentially create vassals for themselves. The one issue I do have with the civil war mechanic though is that revolts consisting of one city don't become their own civ, and as a result can't engage in diplomacy. I think also from an immersion perspective diplomacy shouldn't be restricted.

Also in general I haven't had my revolting cities become a vassal of the AI unless I happen to be at war with that AI. I think the reason for this is if the AI were to make the separatists a vassal, they would declare war on you by doing so. If they are at war with you during the civil war, the separatists are also at war with that AI so it makes sense for them to ally with the AI because they likely have a weak military and couldn't negotiate favorable terms (so they capitulate to the AI). If the AI creates the vassal and declares war on you its most likely a reaction to your dip in military due to your civil war. Most games I lose are a result of this because your military will rapidly deteriorate. Because the consequences are potentially game-losing, I tend to avoid civil war as much as possible by limiting my expansion, focusing on religion early game, and timing my golden ages with my unique wonder/ great people accordingly.

 

[Xyth]

I love the idea of civs revolting and creating new civs, but it's frustrating when a civ revolts out of my empire and instantly decides "Hey you know what? We've been independent for about 5 minutes now. This independence thing sucks. We should become a vassal state". Maybe like a 50 turn timer for newly formed nations out of revolt that means they can't become vassal states during this time. It's frustrating when a part of your empire breaks away, more so when they immediately become a vassal

Rebels cities don't necessarily want complete independence – they just want independence from their parent civilization. If becoming a vassal will help ensure their survival, it's sensible (and historical) for them do so. Note though that such vassalage will usually occur when you're at war with other civilizations as no declaration of war is necessary by either party. Also, the attitude other civilizations will have towards a breakaway civilization is the inverse of their attitude to the parent civilization. In other words, the more a civilization hates you, the more it will love and try to protect or make a vassal of any rebels that break away from you. Civil Wars are fairly predictable, so if it you feel a significant one is looming it pays to try and improve your diplomatic standings in advance to lessen the repercussions.

The one issue I do have with the civil war mechanic though is that revolts consisting of one city don't become their own civ, and as a result can't engage in diplomacy. I think also from an immersion perspective diplomacy shouldn't be restricted.

There's a limited number of player IDs available (18 on Mac, 56 on Windows), and having every small civil war result in a new civilization would churn through these much too quickly. Memory usage would increase faster as well. Note that whether a breakaway faction becomes a new civilization is actually determined by total population rather than number of cities. The threshold is 5, meaning a single city of size 5 or higher can become a new civilization. However, if there are no unused player IDs available then a civil war will always result in barbarians, regardless of size.