Caveman 2 Cosmos

[raxo2222]

@Thunderbrd can I add small + and - to all knowledge bases?
This would represent importing materials and workers to city.
It is to help new/developing cities.
Education requirement of population changes would be commented out.
+ would be equal to ~10% cost of cheapest building in given era (raw value).
- would be equal to 10% of + boost

StrategyOnly said, that its hard to develop new cities in Industrial era despite him being one era behind calendar.
It could be fault of his map - no hills and forests.
On beginning of era buildings meant to have following cost, and knowledge base would add following yield [total]:
Ancient - 111 (10, -1);
Classical - 208 (20, -2); [30, -3]
Medieval - 290 (30, -3); [60, -6]
Renaissance - 395 (40, -4); [100, -10]
Industrial - 605 (60, -6); [160, -16]
Modern - 910 (90, -9); [250, -25]
Information - 1765 (180, -18); [430, -43]
Nanotech - 3105 (310, -31); [740, -74]
Transhuman - 4855 (490, -49); [1230, -123]
Galactic - 8105 (810, -81); [2040, -204]
Cosmic - 13655 (1370, -137); [3410, -341]
Transcendent - 20455 (2050, -205); [5460, -546]

Those aren't limited to Earth..
I guess I have to add map category limitation to it.
All other property pseudobuildings are limited to Earth only.

Other solution would be more general:
Setting all era construction costs to 100.
This would mean relative reduction of building costs are bigger in later eras.

Another solution would be boosting Housing pseudobuilding yields (that wouldn't be as gradual as knowledge base changes).

Here are files you can test - not added to SVN yet.
They go here: Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\XML\Buildings

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Thunderbrd can I add small + and - to all knowledge bases?
This would represent importing materials and workers to city.
It is to help new/developing cities.
Education requirement of population changes would be commented out.
+ would be equal to ~10% cost of cheapest building in given era (raw value).
- would be equal to 10% of + boost

StrategyOnly said, that its hard to develop new cities in Industrial era despite him being one era behind calendar.
It could be fault of his map - no hills and forests.
On beginning of era buildings meant to have following cost, and knowledge base would add following yield [total]:
Ancient - 111 (10, -1);
Classical - 208 (20, -2); [30, -3]
Medieval - 290 (30, -3); [60, -6]
Renaissance - 395 (40, -4); [100, -10]
Industrial - 605 (60, -6); [160, -16]
Modern - 910 (90, -9); [250, -25]
Information - 1765 (180, -18); [430, -43]
Nanotech - 3105 (310, -31); [740, -74]
Transhuman - 4855 (490, -49); [1230, -123]
Galactic - 8105 (810, -81); [2040, -204]
Cosmic - 13655 (1370, -137); [3410, -341]
Transcendent - 20455 (2050, -205); [5460, -546]

Those aren't limited to Earth..
I guess I have to add map category limitation to it.
All other property pseudobuildings are limited to Earth only.

Other solution would be more general:
Setting all era construction costs to 100.
This would mean relative reduction of building costs are bigger in later eras.

Another solution would be boosting Housing pseudobuilding yields (that wouldn't be as gradual as knowledge base changes).

Here are files you can test - not added to SVN yet.
They go here: Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\XML\Buildings

There's already +%production and gold for education levels. No cause for base from a rational perspective. What should happen is the building chains be developed out and sources of these things need to increase as technology progresses and scale upwards as cities grow larger and thus more productive. Of course, this is a major thing to address. Cheap quick fix solutions all have problems with rationale. You could mitigate things by era production cost modifier manipulation but you might want to do so very gently.

The unavoidable facts here are that law units, health control units, educators (a particularly glaring problem much earlier than the other two), and building progressions so that base yield and commerce sources get more effective throughout era progressions are all needing a LOT of work to enable a truly balanced later game and we've really only got things well developed up through Renaissance at the moment. These are not easy to address and the tendency is to want to grasp at a patch over, which would be an unfortunate and kinda ugly way to solve the problems that exist thanks to these underdeveloped areas.

So MY suggestion would be to chart out some real development in those regions and then enact them. I was going to do some tags for some of that stuff to really make for a better system but there's a lot that can be done now with what we are able to do with XML and basic 2d art skills. And unit graphics can always be requested from modders outside this mod.

 

[raxo2222]

There's already +%production and gold for education levels. No cause for base from a rational perspective. What should happen is the building chains be developed out and sources of these things need to increase as technology progresses and scale upwards as cities grow larger and thus more productive. Of course, this is a major thing to address. Cheap quick fix solutions all have problems with rationale. You could mitigate things by era production cost modifier manipulation but you might want to do so very gently.

The unavoidable facts here are that law units, health control units, educators (a particularly glaring problem much earlier than the other two), and building progressions so that base yield and commerce sources get more effective throughout era progressions are all needing a LOT of work to enable a truly balanced later game and we've really only got things well developed up through Renaissance at the moment. These are not easy to address and the tendency is to want to grasp at a patch over, which would be an unfortunate and kinda ugly way to solve the problems that exist thanks to these underdeveloped areas.

So MY suggestion would be to chart out some real development in those regions and then enact them. I was going to do some tags for some of that stuff to really make for a better system but there's a lot that can be done now with what we are able to do with XML and basic 2d art skills. And unit graphics can always be requested from modders outside this mod.

Ah so giving cities minimum level for each era to cities is wrong way to help with new cities?
I used education buildings as example as those are conveniently unlocked in each era.
Instead of education autobuildings housing system could be used to create base productivity for cities.
Now impact of Ancient and later housing on productivity is small except for newly placed cities.

% from any single source like Education quickly loses significancy, as other buildings, civics and traits add or subtract from total % modifier (that is sum of all % modifiers).

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Getting things up and running from 0 should be made easier by new technologies that make construction more efficient. Possibly limited by education levels.

So, if implemented through + buildings, there should be buildings that just do more up front for less/equal cost , representing how the civilization has learned how to organize, specialize more efficiently, or use better technologies like, I dunno, pulleys and cranes and whatever.

I think taking the shortcut of just making it an education unlock is a flavour fail. Because when I see +hammers for education, that isn't going to impact me as like a goal; it's a side-effect, and I might miss the implication that building cities up gets easier.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just think that in the late game, mine company buildings and all those other industrial base buildings like factories giving just +1 hammers is the flaw. A base minimal amount of + hammers (and this goes for other yields from things like farms and gardens and so on) should be about +1 cumulative per 2 eras. Thus in the Classical era, you'd start seeing +2 hammers from buildings that normally give +1 (they can get upgrades to achieve this) and then Renaissance +3, then Modern +4 and so on, maybe even more frequent updates than that. This way the base goes up. Additionally every few eras the % buildings should get a bit of an upgrade, which they do if you look at forges to foundries but it needs to continue every other era or so. How much more % should be adjusted for more fine tuning later but +5% per 2 eras is probably a good rule of thumb to start with.

Make sense? Education buildings should not be assumed to be a must as civs should be able to benefit from low education when they want it, such as to prepare the people for more war tolerance.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

This was an issue with Civ 5. In Civ 5, later buildings are less efficient than early buildings. And on top of that. the buildings are in strict unlock chains so that the science output of your city is just one bucket of hammers that gets some payoff at different notches.

If you have to build early stuff to get the late stuff, you're already in the problem. Nothing is faster.
If you are paying a full, modern price tag to get the buffed modern Factory output, this isn't making a difference either.

There has to be something unlocked that does more, faster, for cities to get a modernity bonus in bootstrapping.
Take some upgrade building, one that obsoletes (or coincides with obsolesence of) a big slew of Stick Pickers and Sand Gatherers or whatever. This building gives a +hammer for its contemporary era, but make the cost small. Looking at it, it should be less than what it took to build that same bonus out of the Stick Pickers and Stone Toolsmiths. With this building, you can get a city up faster, because you're enhancing the industry to the acceptable level, faster (with fewer hammers).

 

[Thunderbrd]

This was an issue with Civ 5. In Civ 5, later buildings are less efficient than early buildings. And on top of that. the buildings are in strict unlock chains so that the science output of your city is just one bucket of hammers that gets some payoff at different notches.

If you have to build early stuff to get the late stuff, you're already in the problem. Nothing is faster.
If you are paying a full, modern price tag to get the buffed modern Factory output, this isn't making a difference either.

There has to be something unlocked that does more, faster, for cities to get a modernity bonus in bootstrapping.
Take some upgrade building, one that obsoletes (or coincides with obsolesence of) a big slew of Stick Pickers and Sand Gatherers or whatever. This building gives a +hammer for its contemporary era, but make the cost small. Looking at it, it should be less than what it took to build that same bonus out of the Stick Pickers and Stone Toolsmiths. With this building, you can get a city up faster, because you're enhancing the industry to the acceptable level, faster (with fewer hammers).

I almost agree. I do think as eras progress and core providing buildings get upgraded to more powerful forms, there needs to start being modern rampup buildings up to those as well - ones that may require the same tech level but less population level whilst the biggest providing buildings are accessed by the tech AND the larger sized city. I'm not sure how well the upgrade mechanism could be used to account for lateral and horizontal city/tech developments, as in building A would be the replacement for B or C while Building B is also the replacement for Building C, building C being the more crude AND smaller city building, Building B being the more advanced but smaller city building while Building A is the more advanced AND larger city version of the building chain. If it works out well you could really have quite a tree that addresses these balance AND flavor issues quite well. Would be very data heavy but worthwhile methinks. Unfortunately too much for my full-time life right now.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That is one of the reasons I argued against using population and for using a key building instead. I was arguing for something like the admin buildings. Something that was specific to a particular Era that was cheap-ish to build in a brand new city and gave you most of the basic stuff eg in the Ancient Era it would give you something that was equivalent to all the not obsolete gather style buildings of the Prehistoric and replace them. The problem is then the current replace building lines would break.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That is one of the reasons I argued against using population and for using a key building instead. I was arguing for something like the admin buildings. Something that was specific to a particular Era that was cheap-ish to build in a brand new city and gave you most of the basic stuff eg in the Ancient Era it would give you something that was equivalent to all the not obsolete gather style buildings of the Prehistoric and replace them. The problem is then the current replace building lines would break.

How would they break? It might be possible to do something similar so that they wouldn't.

Whether you base on a key building or a population level and have that key building be based on tech and population to achieve various upgrade levels might just be an option to simplify with and it makes sense to me to go about it that way but then we need one for every era and a lot more pop stages.

I'm not sure why we'd want those buildings to be automatic though. Cheaper at less effective levels, sure, but automatic can make things too easy to expand and grow. That said, I get how it's been shown that it is a bit too difficult for later cities to be developed and ever have a chance of catching up. Ramping up buildings like these would help though because you wouldn't have to invest as much to achieve a stage of benefit, as it was for the earlier cities as they went from the beginning.

 

[raxo2222]

I just think that in the late game, mine company buildings and all those other industrial base buildings like factories giving just +1 hammers is the flaw. A base minimal amount of + hammers (and this goes for other yields from things like farms and gardens and so on) should be about +1 cumulative per 2 eras. Thus in the Classical era, you'd start seeing +2 hammers from buildings that normally give +1 (they can get upgrades to achieve this) and then Renaissance +3, then Modern +4 and so on, maybe even more frequent updates than that. This way the base goes up. Additionally every few eras the % buildings should get a bit of an upgrade, which they do if you look at forges to foundries but it needs to continue every other era or so. How much more % should be adjusted for more fine tuning later but +5% per 2 eras is probably a good rule of thumb to start with.

Make sense? Education buildings should not be assumed to be a must as civs should be able to benefit from low education when they want it, such as to prepare the people for more war tolerance.

Yes its very good idea.

By the way knowledge base buildings doesn't depend on education - they increase education requirements of citizens
I used those and housing system as alternative to knowledge base in my suggestion, as those are unlocked per each era.

So your suggestion is that:
Minimum contribution of +/+% from all buildings is:
Prehistoric/Ancient: +1, +5%
Classical/Medieval: +2, +10%
Renaissance/Industrial: +3, +15%
Modern/Information: +4, +20%
Nanotech/Transhuman: +5, +25%
Galactic/Cosmic: +6, +30%
Transcedant: +7, +35%

Some buildings get +/% if resource is present by the way.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think what Raxo is implying is that the current "knowledge base" buildings are actually an Era based building that should be doing more than just modifying education and probably should be called "Era Balance" buildings. If I remember correctly you did these to balance the Education needs by Era.

What I was suggesting was not auto builds.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes its very good idea.

By the way knowledge base buildings doesn't depend on education - they increase education requirements of citizens
I used those and housing system as alternative to knowledge base in my suggestion, as those are unlocked per each era.

So your suggestion is that:
Minimum contribution of +/+% from all buildings is:
Prehistoric/Ancient: +1, +5%
Classical/Medieval: +2, +10%
Renaissance/Industrial: +3, +15%
Modern/Information: +4, +20%
Nanotech/Transhuman: +5, +25%
Galactic/Cosmic: +6, +30%
Transcedant: +7, +35%

Some buildings get +/% if resource is present by the way.

I'd alternate the eras that give +x and those that give buildings with or upgrades to buildings with +x% if possible. Mostly because I think the current structure would nicely play into that but I could be wrong and it would thus be a bad idea. Just a suggest. So for example, there's a lot of buildings giving +1 Hammers in the Prehistoric but in Ancient you unlock the forge and get a major boost in the form of +15% Hammers. So those buildings in the Prehistoric would tend to have upgrades or new concepts to replace them that give +2 Hammers in the Ancient whereas in the Classical, you might get a better Forge. I dunno... the point is see if there's a spacing pattern that can be rationally followed. Trying too hard to insist on that pattern would possibly break away from rational tech achievement spots so I wouldn't put it as too high a priority, just trying to find general loose guidelines to consider.

I did misunderstand which buildings you wanted to add stuff to. In response to you and DH, I would suggest that if you're going to add such kinds of era adjustments, first see if they can be done by the era infos directly and if not, try to make new and uniquely labeled autobuildings for these to make them more clear what they are in terms of rationale. The placement at the era techs makes tons of sense though. The ease of making new buildings for this purpose makes it makes sense to go about it this way because you don't need new buttons generally... maybe something for the pedia.

 

[raxo2222]

I'd alternate the eras that give +x and those that give buildings with or upgrades to buildings with +x% if possible. Mostly because I think the current structure would nicely play into that but I could be wrong and it would thus be a bad idea. Just a suggest. So for example, there's a lot of buildings giving +1 Hammers in the Prehistoric but in Ancient you unlock the forge and get a major boost in the form of +15% Hammers. So those buildings in the Prehistoric would tend to have upgrades or new concepts to replace them that give +2 Hammers in the Ancient whereas in the Classical, you might get a better Forge. I dunno... the point is see if there's a spacing pattern that can be rationally followed. Trying too hard to insist on that pattern would possibly break away from rational tech achievement spots so I wouldn't put it as too high a priority, just trying to find general loose guidelines to consider.

I did misunderstand which buildings you wanted to add stuff to. In response to you and DH, I would suggest that if you're going to add such kinds of era adjustments, first see if they can be done by the era infos directly and if not, try to make new and uniquely labeled autobuildings for these to make them more clear what they are in terms of rationale. The placement at the era techs makes tons of sense though. The ease of making new buildings for this purpose makes it makes sense to go about it this way because you don't need new buttons generally... maybe something for the pedia.

Forge and Foundry are base for many buildings though.
This would mean their replacements would have to be included by buildings, that require them.

Also it was list of absolute minimum contributions from + or % buildings, if they already have + or % contribution.
So minimum contribution from giving buildings unlocked in era would be:
Prehistoric: +1, +5%
Ancient: +1, +10%
Classical: +2, +10%
Medieval: +2, +15%
Renaissance: +3, +15%
Industrial: +3, +20%
Modern: +4, +20%
Information: +4, +25%
Nanotech: +5, +25%
Transhuman: +5, +30%
Galactic: +6, +30%
Cosmic: +6, +35%
Transcendent: +7, +35%
If buildings doesn't give + then + isn't added to it.
If buildings doesn't give +% then +% isn't added to it.
If Industrial era resource factory gave +1, then now it would give +3
If Modern era building had total +10%, then now it would have +20%

By the way +% usually increases final production by less % than it says depending on earlier % boosts.
If multiplier is 1 (no % sources yet), then +5% building will increase multiplier to 1.05.
In more developed city and with certain traits/civics base multiplier is for example is 3 - building another +5% will increase base multiplier to 3.05.

That is % items don't change productivity by X percent, but increase/decrease base multiplier by X percentage points.
In later game contribution from single source type like traits, all civics or all property pseudobuildings can be drowned out by all buildings or all resources (buildings, that have +% with resource) contributions.

As for baseline in new cities:
Autobuildings look better, as their contribution can be easily controlled, and they impact most where they are most needed.
Era Info construction costs would help all cities, and I want to impact new cities specifically.
Those autobuildings could replace earlier versions of themselves, that is their replacement list would mirror bridge buildings.
They would be autobuilt on Earth only, also they are similar to those space colony autobuildings, that Pepper created.
I could call them Industrial Base.

Can be their productivity be ~50% of raw building cost of building unlocked in lifestyle tech?
Newer one replaces older autobuildings.
I listed raw costs of buildings at lifestyle tech and productivity of new city autobuildings.
Ancient - 111 - Base production: 50
Classical - 208 - Base production: 100
Medieval - 290 - Base production: 150
Renaissance - 395 - Base production: 200
Industrial - 605 - Base production: 300
Modern - 910 - Base production: 450
Information - 1765 - Base production: 900
Nanotech - 3105 - Base production: 1500
Transhuman - 4855 - Base production: 2500
Galactic - 8105 - Base production: 4000
Cosmic - 13655 - Base production: 7000
Transcendent - 20455 - Base production: 10000

 

[Thunderbrd]

This would mean their replacements would have to be included by buildings, that require them.

Doesn't the Foundry already replace the Forge?

Also it was list of absolute minimum contributions from + or % buildings, if they already have + or % contribution.
So minimum contribution from giving buildings unlocked in era would be:
Prehistoric: +1, +5%
Ancient: +1, +10%
Classical: +2, +10%
Medieval: +2, +15%
Renaissance: +3, +15%
Industrial: +3, +20%
Modern: +4, +20%
Information: +4, +25%
Nanotech: +5, +25%
Transhuman: +5, +30%
Galactic: +6, +30%
Cosmic: +6, +35%
Transcendent: +7, +35%
If buildings doesn't give + then + isn't added to it.
If buildings doesn't give +% then +% isn't added to it.
If Industrial era resource factory gave +1, then now it would give +3
If Modern era building had total +10%, then now it would have +20%

Ok, yeah that's pretty much the suggestion, yes. Should look pretty good if that was done throughout the building lists we already have and upgrades made more available.

By the way +% usually increases final production by less % than it says depending on earlier % boosts.
If multiplier is 1 (no % sources yet), then +5% building will increase multiplier to 1.05.
In more developed city and with certain traits/civics base multiplier is for example is 3 - building another +5% will increase base multiplier to 3.05.

That is % items don't change productivity by X percent, but increase/decrease base multiplier by X percentage points.
In later game contribution from single source type like traits, all civics or all property pseudobuildings can be drowned out by all buildings or all resources (buildings, that have +% with resource) contributions.

True. What is your general conclusion about this? This is pretty much how it is back to vanilla IIRC.

As for baseline in new cities:
Autobuildings look better, as their contribution can be easily controlled, and they impact most where they are most needed.
Era Info construction costs would help all cities, and I want to impact new cities specifically.
Those autobuildings could replace earlier versions of themselves, that is their replacement list would mirror bridge buildings.
They would be autobuilt on Earth only, also they are similar to those space colony autobuildings, that Pepper created.
I could call them Industrial Base.

I doubt you'd even need this if you do the previous step.

I listed raw costs of buildings at lifestyle tech and productivity of new city autobuildings.
Ancient - 111 - Base production: 50
Classical - 208 - Base production: 100
Medieval - 290 - Base production: 150
Renaissance - 395 - Base production: 200
Industrial - 605 - Base production: 300
Modern - 910 - Base production: 450
Information - 1765 - Base production: 900
Nanotech - 3105 - Base production: 1500
Transhuman - 4855 - Base production: 2500
Galactic - 8105 - Base production: 4000
Cosmic - 13655 - Base production: 7000
Transcendent - 20455 - Base production: 10000

I think that would be too high by at least a factor of 10. Ancient 5, Classical 10, Medieval 15 etc... might make some sense. Keep in mind such a base would then be modified by production % mods that exist. 50 is a GINORMOUS amount of base production! Maybe I'm not fully understanding something here...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@raxo2222 The problem is that the new cities take for ever to become productive. However your solution is also going to make old cities over powered.

In my view what is needed is something that only affects new cities. We have something in C2C that does that already. It is the "Free to New Cities" set of tags. It was developed because the way everyone implemented it before (yes in other mods also) was to base it on the settler that was building the city but the AI players did not have access to the unit whereas the players did. It seemed to work but was a huge human player cheat. The "Free to/in New Cities" was our fix to the problem.

 

[raxo2222]

Doesn't the Foundry already replace the Forge?

Yes, foundry replaces forge.
Just that Foundry is base for a lot of buildings.
Forge is required only for two buildings.

I doubt you'd even need this if you do the previous step.
I think that would be too high by at least a factor of 10. Ancient 5, Classical 10, Medieval 15 etc... might make some sense. Keep in mind such a base would then be modified by production % mods that exist. 50 is a GINORMOUS amount of base production! Maybe I'm not fully understanding something here...

Those numbers were for production level in city, that just got founded.
More modern autobuilding would replace previous ones.
Isn't production much higher in fully developed cities than that?

@raxo2222 The problem is that the new cities take for ever to become productive. However your solution is also going to make old cities over powered.

In my view what is needed is something that only affects new cities. We have something in C2C that does that already. It is the "Free to New Cities" set of tags. It was developed because the way everyone implemented it before (yes in other mods also) was to base it on the settler that was building the city but the AI players did not have access to the unit whereas the players did. It seemed to work but was a huge human player cheat. The "Free to/in New Cities" was our fix to the problem.

I guess then instead of autobuildings we could use those tags to "autobuild" + buildings from previous era, if requirements are met.
Space colonization would be exempt from this, as production in them is balanced separately.
On other hand some wonders have problems with giving buildings to cities like water department with pipes (or water pipeline something like that) building.
This issue may creep in to those free buildings in new city tags.

Special (buildable by unit only) National Wonder - The National Standard of Measurement increases by 5%.
Ancient buildings if have contribution +/% to , then minimum is 1 or 10%
Increase its % bonus?
Industrial achievement is in similar situation.

By the way I didn't saw earlier, that Taxonomy myths are effectively National Wonders (spreads effect to all cities).
So I doubled their cost to 250 (125 is cost of building in Taxonomy column).
And what about religious buildings? With them you can further increase productivity.
I'll leave those unchanged.

By the way good job on not copying this from vanilla and just adding "!" to buildings game text.
No idea who did this possibly very old oopsie.

    <TEXT>
       <Tag>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_ANARCHY_TIMER_MOD</Tag>
       <English>[ICON_BULLET]%D1%% wait between Civics or State Religion changes</English>
       <French>[ICON_BULLET]%D1%% d'attente entre les changements de doctrine ou de religion d'état</French>
       <German>[ICON_BULLET]%D1%% Wartezeit bei &#196;nderungen von Staatsform oder Staatsreligion.</German>
       <Italian>[ICON_BULLET]%D1%% di attesa al cambiamento di forma di governo o religione di stato</Italian>
       <Spanish>[ICON_BULLET]%D1%% de espera entre los cambios de principios o de religi&#243;n oficial</Spanish>
   </TEXT>

How long this tag text was missing from game?
I had to go nuclear and just remove all ...english>!<... lines for this to be suddently visible.
Some buildings like Nara's buddhist wonder had "!" in middle of its hover toolip as if it was simple help entry being broken.

Classical era is first one to have boosted production yields to new minimum level - Ancient era got two boosts on special buildings and Prehistoric era things were unchanged.
Housing is scaled by density.
I'll multiply them by new minimum (Classical/Medieval housing is now 2/4, was 1/2)
Those should help with new cities - cheapest buildings will be easier to reach.

No resource factories except few ones are yielding

I will have to review yielding building replacement chains.
That is replacements won't have lower productivity.

 

[raxo2222]

@Thunderbrd Now changes are in SVN.
@strategyonly get last SVN and check how smaller/less developed cities fare now in Modern era - minimum /% gets higher as era progresses.

 

[strategyonly]

@Thunderbrd Now changes are in SVN.
@strategyonly get last SVN and check how smaller/less developed cities fare now in Modern era - minimum /% gets higher as era progresses.

I hope alot better, because aLOT well almost ALL civs have so small cities its too easy to conquer them . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

Those numbers were for production level in city, that just got founded.
More modern autobuilding would replace previous ones.
Isn't production much higher in fully developed cities than that?

Apparently I misunderstood the intention - that's a guide you're going for and not a base added by an autobuilding then? Cool. Carry on.

@Thunderbrd Now changes are in SVN.
@strategyonly get last SVN and check how smaller/less developed cities fare now in Modern era - minimum /% gets higher as era progresses.

I do think this should help quite a bit.

I hope alot better, because aLOT well almost ALL civs have so small cities its too easy to conquer them . .

This is one peg in a large number of things that need to be built out to correct that. The late game is going to be a mess for a while until that full list of things is taken care of and this is also just the first step of what should be a large plan to address this particular imbalance.

 

[raxo2222]

Apparently I misunderstood the intention - that's a guide you're going for and not a base added by an autobuilding then? Cool. Carry on.

It was base added by autobuilding, that gets replaced or gets from lifestyle techs.
That is city when founded would get this amount of production from autobuilding.
I did plenty of changes here and there so this autibuilding trick isn't needed anymore - cities should have easier time to ramp up their production.