Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Tajo]

Reached 10000 gold while researching negotiation. In past versions this has happened around the age of dreadnought ships. Definitely too much gold, otherwise feels just awesome, will keep monitoring how the AI holds together in later game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Wow... the amount of gold you get out of it is way more than what it costs to maintain the anti-crime efforts needed to contain that taint.

Agreed. Just time your addition of it accordingly.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Reached 10000 gold while researching negotiation. In past versions this has happened around the age of dreadnought ships. Definitely too much gold, otherwise feels just awesome, will keep monitoring how the AI holds together in later game.

What Era is Tech Negotiation in? I don't have the tech tree memorized. And if you have a treasury of 10000 gold in late Ancient it is less than it used to be.

In past versions this has happened around the age of dreadnought ships.

Just back in 2017 and early 2018 many players that reached the then Modern Era would have Multiple Millions of Gold in their Treasury. In fact the display of the treasury in the Nain screen had to be changed to accommodate this. Something seems twisted here in your perception and telling of the Too Much Gold thing again. C2C will Never be as austere as AND2. Are you confusing the 2?

 

[Esfera]

Reached 10000 gold while researching negotiation. In past versions this has happened around the age of dreadnought ships. Definitely too much gold, otherwise feels just awesome, will keep monitoring how the AI holds together in later game.

What gamespeed are you using in that save? 10000 gold isn't really that much, in fact, once you reach later eras you can't afford to hurry most units/buildings if you only have 10k...

 

[JosEPh_II]

What gamespeed are you using in that save? 10000 gold isn't really that much, in fact, once you reach later eras you can't afford to hurry most units/buildings if you only have 10k...

Agreed! That's why I'm saying something is off or not being given in details of game set up. In fact in late Ancient Era with a 10000 gold treasury I can burn thru that 10000 in a hurry in upgrading units of all kinds!

Is Tajo playing Pit's scenario? Maybe he posted his game set up somewhere and I missed it?

 

[Tajo]

What Era is Tech Negotiation in? I don't have the tech tree memorized. And if you have a treasury of 10000 gold in late Ancient it is less than it used to be.

Just back in 2017 and early 2018 many players that reached the then Modern Era would have Multiple Millions of Gold in their Treasury. In fact the display of the treasury in the Nain screen had to be changed to accommodate this. Something seems twisted here in your perception and telling of the Too Much Gold thing again. C2C will Never be as austere as AND2. Are you confusing the 2?

Early ancient. Money is ridiculously abundant.

 

[Tajo]

What gamespeed are you using in that save? 10000 gold isn't really that much, in fact, once you reach later eras you can't afford to hurry most units/buildings if you only have 10k...

Speed is posted here. It is marathon.

 

[Tajo]

Agreed! That's why I'm saying something is off or not being given in details of game set up. In fact in late Ancient Era with a 10000 gold treasury I can burn thru that 10000 in a hurry in upgrading units of all kinds!

Is Tajo playing Pit's scenario? Maybe he posted his game set up somewhere and I missed it?

No, just a regular game and I have posted you the details. I also noticed that upscaled unit costs option was missing from the start. Would be more useful than ever.

 

[billw2015]

The problem shouldn't really be defined by how much money you have, more like what trade offs you do or don't have to make to get that much money. Like JosEPh said, there are some good money sinks available (upgrades, rushing, trading). The question is if you get that much money without having to make any trade offs. Based on your comments it sounds like this is the case for you. It used to be (can't remember if in this mod, RoM or vanilla) that you had to turn down sci slider a lot if you wanted to expand rapidly or upgrade units fast. To me that doesn't seem like the case any more, but I only have one longer game I played recently for comparison.

 

[Yudishtira]

What gamespeed are you using in that save? 10000 gold isn't really that much, in fact, once you reach later eras you can't afford to hurry most units/buildings if you only have 10k...

You're kidding right? Above Warlord you should never have enough gold to indiscriminately hurry buildings.

 

[Tajo]

The problem shouldn't really be defined by how much money you have, more like what trade offs you do or don't have to make to get that much money. Like JosEPh said, there are some good money sinks available (upgrades, rushing, trading). The question is if you get that much money without having to make any trade offs. Based on your comments it sounds like this is the case for you. It used to be (can't remember if in this mod, RoM or vanilla) that you had to turn down sci slider a lot if you wanted to expand rapidly or upgrade units fast. To me that doesn't seem like the case any more, but I only have one longer game I played recently for comparison.

Yeah, the past system was real good when I had to choose between 100% science and expansion. Now I'm researchin copper working and have 100 gold income/turn. Can't churn enough units to lower it, it just seems to rise and rise even when I have avoided building money adding buildings. I used the upscaled costs option before this version.

Upscaled unit costs option is now gone. I can't imagine why it was removed and the flow of money increased so much, especially when this is not a new issue and many players agree that there was and certainly now is too much money. Some developer admitted this before the launch and some players even think that there was too much money before this new version so I really can't fathom why the upscaled cost option was removed. Clearly such is in need, even with several options.

 

[Tajo]

You're kidding right? Above Warlord you should never have enough gold to indiscriminately hurry buildings.

Couldn't agree more. Don't even want to think how much money there is below the immortal level.

 

[Yudishtira]

Agreed! That's why I'm saying something is off or not being given in details of game set up. In fact in late Ancient Era with a 10000 gold treasury I can burn thru that 10000 in a hurry in upgrading units of all kinds!

Is Tajo playing Pit's scenario? Maybe he posted his game set up somewhere and I missed it?

In my Aotearoa save in 2015 I was in mid-Modern and still had to ration unit upgrades because there was less excess gold than now. That game was on Deity and had been since Ancient, but even on Prince, if you ever have enough gold to upgrade all your units, (without reducing the slider substantially for more than a few turns, or building wealth for a while in multiple cities, or similar opportunity-costly revenue-raising) you have too much gold.

 

[raxo2222]

Upscaled unit costs option is now gone.

This option was probably renamed - its upscaled construction and unit cost.

In my Aotearoa save in 2015 I was in mid-Modern and still had to ration unit upgrades because there was less excess gold than now. That game was on Deity and had been since Ancient, but even on Prince, if you ever have enough gold to upgrade all your units, (without reducing the slider substantially for more than a few turns, or building wealth for a while in multiple cities, or similar opportunity-costly revenue-raising) you have too much gold.

Looks like there is no reason to not set maintenance costs to 200% (or just 100%) in all world size infos.

            <iDistanceMaintenancePercent>50</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
            <iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>50</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
            <iColonyMaintenancePercent>80</iColonyMaintenancePercent>

@JosEPh_II all three are same for all sizes in worldsizeinfo.
Would be setting those to 100% good idea?
This would be good incentive to build all buildings - especially gold producers.

Alternatively if you don't want to tax AI, you could change those in handicap infos - only players would be affected for those.

These are upkeep modifiers on Noble (same as AI)

            <iMaxNumCitiesMaintenance>100</iMaxNumCitiesMaintenance>
            <iMaxColonyMaintenance>200</iMaxColonyMaintenance>
            <iDistanceMaintenancePercent>100</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
            <iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>100</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
            <iColonyMaintenancePercent>100</iColonyMaintenancePercent>
            <iCorporationMaintenancePercent>100</iCorporationMaintenancePercent>
            <iCivicUpkeepPercent>100</iCivicUpkeepPercent>

Deity players have this:

            <iMaxNumCitiesMaintenance>200</iMaxNumCitiesMaintenance>
            <iMaxColonyMaintenance>400</iMaxColonyMaintenance>
            <iDistanceMaintenancePercent>200</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
            <iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>200</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
            <iColonyMaintenancePercent>200</iColonyMaintenancePercent>
            <iCorporationMaintenancePercent>200</iCorporationMaintenancePercent>
            <iCivicUpkeepPercent>200</iCivicUpkeepPercent>

Alternatively inflation could be added back in game speed infos.
It could kick in at 10% of game and be 10x at last turn.

Also you can take look at new fancy civic and financial advisor.

 

[Esfera]

You're kidding right? Above Warlord you should never have enough gold to indiscriminately hurry buildings.

You got it wrong. I never said so.
There is a difference between being able to indiscriminately hurry buildings (inflation aside), and not being able to hurry buildings, at all.
10k isn't a lot of money in marathon, let alone once you can build dreadnoughts.

 

[Yudishtira]

You got it wrong. I never said so.
There is a difference between being able to indiscriminately hurry buildings (inflation aside), and not being able to hurry buildings, at all.
10k isn't a lot of money in marathon, let alone once you can build dreadnoughts.

What you said was:

once you reach later eras you can't afford to hurry most units/buildings if you only have 10k...

You said "most buildings", not "any building". I can only reply to what you said, not to what you later revise it to.

Not that it matters - I'm happy to go so far as to say any hurrying of buildings should hurt in terms of opportunity cost, except on noob difficulties. Like wholesale unit upgrades, hurries must be saved up for. They should be comparable in opportunity cost to whipping (comparable not equal because whipping is currently way too expensive and getting moreso) to achieve the same end, ie. prohibitive.

 

[Toffer90]

Looks like there is no reason to not set maintenance costs to 200% (or just 100%) in all world size infos.

Would be setting those to 100% good idea?
This would be good incentive to build all buildings - especially gold producers.

Alternatively if you don't want to tax AI, you could change those in handicap infos - only players would be affected for those.

The better option is to increase MAX_DISTANCE_CITY_MAINTENANCE, it is currently at 10.
In MToS I have it at 32, but I did also increase the world info distance maintenance to 105 for smallest and 85 on largest.

Be careful when increasing the numCities maintenance as it affect the prehistoric era when you only have one city hard if you set it too high, don't want to loose 5 gold per turn the moment you found your first city in the game.
numCities maintenance increases also with the population points of each city, so it's not just about how many cities you have but also how big they are.
distance maintenance also increases with population though, but not so much from what I've seen.

 

[Esfera]

I can only reply to what you said, not to what you later revise it to.

Whatever dude, I am not going to get into an argument with you over linguistics, no need to be pedant.

 

[Yudishtira]

Whatever dude, I am not going to get into an argument with you over linguistics, no need to be pedant.

The "pedantry" of being logical and consistent is actually a 'sine qua non' of rational discussion. You should try it sometime (instead of childish name-calling).

 

[JosEPh_II]

No, just a regular game and I have posted you the details. I also noticed that upscaled unit costs option was missing from the start. Would be more useful than ever.

Just because you posted them earlier does not mean that I remember your posting. That is why I said what I said.

@JosEPh_II all three are same for all sizes in worldsizeinfo.
Would be setting those to 100% good idea?

Not really.

The better option is to increase MAX_DISTANCE_CITY_MAINTENANCE, it is currently at 10.

Which one is this? And where?

Look Civics alone may not bring Gold production down to all player likings. And what 1 player complains is too much, another complains not enough.

And yes Map size Game Speed chosen and Game set up options used all add or subtract to some degree. As does number of AI in game to start.

As stated before raxo reduced goldmodifier %'s on all gold producing buildings already. He can give you the details. He also reduced ScienceModifier % on resources, iirc. Again he can give the details of what he has done to reduce gold and slow down research. Same for Culture too.

When you get Tribalism you have been given the choice to change 10 Civic by that time. Almost all start to relieve the malus in these contested areas which includes Gold and research. How fast they relieve the malus has been brought up and questioned. Because this makes the game start and very early game longer to get thru (Starting Tech thru Tribalism). By Sed life 2 more choices become available and both are important. The Gov't of Chiefdom and the religion affecting one of Divine Cult. If you have an early Religion this one will be big.

Early Ancient Era, now called Sedentary Lifestyle Era, you have another you have 4 more choices by the time you get Mining. And 3 of these are all very important early game changers; Caste (Society), Metals (Currency), and Small Holding(Agriculture). Metals is your 1st real Currency upgrade and starts to relive the malus of the initial Currency Start Civic. Same for Small Holding. Caste allows more specialization thru Society than Tribalism.

Then you have in short time 4 more choices that really make even more pronounced changes; Standarization, Trade and Trade language (Big % jumps in multiple categories) at Trade Tech, then Masonry for City States (another Civic that is the 1st available Civic in it's category to get off the start civic malus).

So the early Ancient Era is a Big time of Empire organizational efforts in maximizing the buildings and tiles you now have available thru this timeframe in the game play. Rapid changes in many critical Civic categories. Can they be muted more? Yes but how much before the AI becomes sluggish and re-tarded (this word is banned by CFC now!) This is Key! and Can't be stressed enough. Make it harder on the player even all the way to Noble difficulty and the AI has shown a tendency to stagnate and not be able to compete. Is it getting better? I think so. Is it complete? Heck No!

So stating your opinion about too much gold, justifiable yes. But know it is not an easy nor quick fix either. So Please don't keep harping over it. We know. We are working on it. We are not satisfied either.

So much more to say about this but not going to do so in this post.