Caveman 2 Cosmos

[irishhombre]

Was the ability to build multiple wonders per turn removed?

 

[raxo2222]

Was the ability to build multiple wonders per turn removed?

yes, it was causing serious bugs.

 

[irishhombre]

Thank you, I wasn't sure to report it as a bug.

 

[raxo2222]

Here is space colonization milestones for those, who don't play on space scenarios.
Pepper Space Program starts exactly midgame techwise

===ATOMIC===
X080 - Advanced Rocketry - Founding of NASA
X081 - Satellites - First satellite launched
X085 - Space Stations - Space Station LVL 1 improvement (Orbit terrain)

===INFORMATION===
X091 - Space Tourism - Space Station LVL 2 improvement (Orbit terrain)
X094 - Lunar Bases - Lunar Outpost improvement (Lunar cities are founded on it)
X096 - Asteroid Mining - Space Station LVL 3 improvement (Orbit terrain), Heavy Rockets can be upgraded to Cislunar/Lunar/Planetary Settlers

===NANOTECH===
X100 - Advanced Environmental Systems - Cislunar colonies
X101 - Lunar Colonization - Lunar colonies
X102 - Planetary Colonization - Martian/Venusian colonies

===TRANSHUMAN===
X111 - Deep Space Colonies - Solar System colonies (except Titan/beyond Pluto)
X114 - Astrogation Constellation - Earth can freely trade with space colonies (route can be placed on Orbit)
X115 - Abyss Colonization - Titan colonies
X121 - Solar Ordnance - Transneptunian colonies

===GALACTIC===
X124 - Interstellar Travel - Flight to nearby stars
X129 - Interstellar Colonization - Nearby Stars colonies.
X132 - Advanced Seedships - Orion Arm colonies
X134 - Transtangible Neutrino Accelerators - Milky Way colonies

===COSMIC===
X138 - Space Creasing - Local Group colonies
X141 - Intergroup Travel - Virgo Supercluster colonies
X145 - Intercluster Travel - Universe colonies

===TRANSCEDENT===
X149 - Horizon Breaking - Unobservable Universe colonies (part of same universe)
X149 - Dualflux Quantum Temporal Rift - Hyperspace colonies, can create Hyperspace terrain
X149 - String Manipulation - can create Branespace terrain
X152 - Time Reversal - can create Distant Past/Future terrains
X154 - Multiverse Traversal - latest space unit (multiverse reward), represents colonizing separate universes
X156 - Manifold Colonization - colonizing structures beyond dimensions
X158 - Macroverse Traversal - colonizing multimultiverses
X160 - Simulation Analysis - colonizing of whatever is outside of simulation

 

[jiallombardo]

Ok, the burnt forest code still works too often on eternity. I'm in classical era, and I got like 3 burnt forest tiles in the last ~50 turns, and what's even more irritating is that it's out of the player's control. It's kind of like the Global Warming mechanic, only that's being caused by abusing nukes and stuff, and here it just randomly destroys forests. I can just comment out the code in the python script so it stops doing that, correct? Perhaps, this feature could be made toggleable? For example, burnt forest in Taiga / Tundra / Permafrost seems really ridiculous (unless of course an asteroid fell there, only it didn't). If it had something to do with Flammability property, that would at least make it somewhat controllable, but it's still quite brutal in its effect.

 

[BlueGenie]

For example, burnt forest in Taiga / Tundra / Permafrost seems really ridiculous (unless of course an asteroid fell there, only it didn't)

Lightning strikes in a dry area is the most common cause to have forest fires devastate an area. More so than man made fires, though not so by logging. Increased global heat increases the lightning induced fires and the effect they have but even when normal temperatures there's still a lot.
The game could use a little less "full plot devastation" though, or at least have the burned forests bounce back to New and Normal forest a lot faster as after a natural forest fire new saplings do come back very fast again.

https://www.geospatialworld.net/blogs/lightning-cause-wildfires-reveal-study/

 

[Thunderbrd]

Lightning strikes in a dry area is the most common cause to have forest fires devastate an area. More so than man made fires, though not so by logging. Increased global heat increases the lightning induced fires and the effect they have but even when normal temperatures there's still a lot.
The game could use a little less "full plot devastation" though, or at least have the burned forests bounce back to New and Normal forest a lot faster as after a natural forest fire new saplings do come back very fast again.

https://www.geospatialworld.net/blogs/lightning-cause-wildfires-reveal-study/

This is more my take - and if we can keep lumbermill type improvements from being removed it would also keep it from being as disturbing to play.

 

[Toffer90]

Ok, the burnt forest code still works too often on eternity. I'm in classical era, and I got like 3 burnt forest tiles in the last ~50 turns, and what's even more irritating is that it's out of the player's control. It's kind of like the Global Warming mechanic, only that's being caused by abusing nukes and stuff, and here it just randomly destroys forests. I can just comment out the code in the python script so it stops doing that, correct? Perhaps, this feature could be made toggleable? For example, burnt forest in Taiga / Tundra / Permafrost seems really ridiculous (unless of course an asteroid fell there, only it didn't). If it had something to do with Flammability property, that would at least make it somewhat controllable, but it's still quite brutal in its effect.

There's forest fires each year in Norway and Sweden, that's taiga terrain for the most part and it's just a small region of the earth map containing taiga terrain.
P.S. Woodland cycle mechanic reduce its activity quite a lot per era advancement

This is more my take - and if we can keep lumbermill type improvements from being removed it would also keep it from being as disturbing to play.

Lumbermills aren't removed when the forest burn because currently burned forest is a valid feature to build the lumbermill in.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Lumbermills aren't removed when the forest burn because currently burned forest is a valid feature to build the lumbermill in.

In that case they could be switched to something like "Lumbermill on burnt forest" which quickly upgrades (one or two turbs adjusted) if worked to lumbermill and have the onImprovementBuilt function cause the burnt forest with a normal forest.

 

[jiallombardo]

Lightning strikes in a dry area is the most common cause to have forest fires devastate an area. More so than man made fires, though not so by logging. Increased global heat increases the lightning induced fires and the effect they have but even when normal temperatures there's still a lot.
The game could use a little less "full plot devastation" though, or at least have the burned forests bounce back to New and Normal forest a lot faster as after a natural forest fire new saplings do come back very fast again.

https://www.geospatialworld.net/blogs/lightning-cause-wildfires-reveal-study/

Ok, sorry, the statement about fires in taiga / tundra areas was really a bit premature, more out of frustration than anything, thanks for these facts. I do agree though that it would be a nice idea to have burnt forests grow back faster or something. It's just quite frustrating that it's completely out of the player's hands, and unlike some random events, you can't pay to replant the forest.

P.S. Woodland cycle mechanic reduce its activity quite a lot per era advancement
Lumbermills aren't removed when the forest burn because currently burned forest is a valid feature to build the lumbermill in.

Yeah, I saw the code update, but on Eternity with the number of turns you have I'm still getting a burned forest every ~10 turns or so (during Classical Era). Maybe it's due to me having the "new random seed on reload", I'm not sure, but it feels like it's too often.
Also, lumberjacks do get destroyed after a forest fire, but only on bonus tiles, namely, apples and hemp.

 

[Toffer90]

Also, lumberjacks do get destroyed after a forest fire, but only on bonus tiles, namely, apples and hemp.

Interesting, something to look into later.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Toffer90 ,

Just watched a Forest "burn down"! That's some cool graphics work Team mate!

EDIT: It's the little things like this that makes our mod so much Fun to play.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Lumbermills aren't removed when the forest burn because currently burned forest is a valid feature to build the lumbermill in.

OK, I think I did change the rule that we got from AND that improvements are always destroyed if the plot's improvements change. Must have because if the improvement upgrade causes it, the improvement isn't destroyed then either.

In that case they could be switched to something like "Lumbermill on burnt forest" which quickly upgrades (one or two turbs adjusted) if worked to lumbermill and have the onImprovementBuilt function cause the burnt forest with a normal forest.

Why? To represent a less effective Lumbermill? I mean the plot itself lost some base yields. Slashed and burned forests are usually rapidly growing areas and also it usually doesn't wipe out an entire tile's worth of terrain in a given fire so I'm not thinking it should be necessary to depower the lumbermill. SOME fires will alter the landscape nearly permanently, sure, but I think we still have events that account for those?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why? To represent a less effective Lumbermill? I mean the plot itself lost some base yields. Slashed and burned forests are usually rapidly growing areas and also it usually doesn't wipe out an entire tile's worth of terrain in a given fire so I'm not thinking it should be necessary to depower the lumbermill. SOME fires will alter the landscape nearly permanently, sure, but I think we still have events that account for those?

Well that shows I did not explain it very well. No nothing to do with the improvement but to make the forest regrow. The improvement itself has the same values exactly but by making it upgrade to the normal lumbermill after some time representing the fact that the lumbermill owners would work to get the forest back. Leaving it to random events may mean that it never regrows.

Part of my whole problem with burnt forest is that you need two. One for a normal forest fire which only takes a year to regrow and one for a sever forest fire which can take twenty to fifty years to regrow. I live in Australia but this applies to other dry places also.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well that shows I did not explain it very well. No nothing to do with the improvement but to make the forest regrow. The improvement itself has the same values exactly but by making it upgrade to the normal lumbermill after some time representing the fact that the lumbermill owners would work to get the forest back. Leaving it to random events may mean that it never regrows.

Part of my whole problem with burnt forest is that you need two. One for a normal forest fire which only takes a year to regrow and one for a sever forest fire which can take twenty to fifty years to regrow. I live in Australia but this applies to other dry places also.

It's not done by events, at least not through the event system. IIRC, from my chats with Toffer, it's done as a random chance every round. IMO, if it's not set up to have an increasing likelihood every round of becoming a new forest from a burnt one then it should. The city working the tile should have nothing to do with it. Replanting would be something that worker units can actively be sent to do.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It's not done by events, at least not through the event system. IIRC, from my chats with Toffer, it's done as a random chance every round. IMO, if it's not set up to have an increasing likelihood every round of becoming a new forest from a burnt one then it should. The city working the tile should have nothing to do with it. Replanting would be something that worker units can actively be sent to do.

Don't forget that there are three types of events when talking modding and playing

• events from the Event system (Event Infos)
• events that are things that happen in the game which sometimes cause
  
• events that are caught by the Python and dll ie program events that allow us to program other stuff to happen.

Like many others I dislike that Burnt Forest is not an event in Event Infos especially as there is such an event but it does not cause burnt forests to appear if you don't mitigate it.

If I remember correctly when a terrain feature or improvement changes a program event happens an that is caught. The onImprovemtBuilt event catches both the building of an improvement and the upgrade. I miss remembered about the terrain feature. This means this would only be possible if the change was an event rather than a hidden random thing.

So how do the other improvements upgrade? Are we now going to have to manually do it by assigning workers?

 

[Thunderbrd]

So how do the other improvements upgrade? Are we now going to have to manually do it by assigning workers?

Features are not improvements. Two entirely different definitions of items that can be defined on a plot. A forest is not an improvement but a feature. Features can be terraformed directly by worker actions and this is a step in the direction of having some defined dynamics for features to go through natural changes.

As for the rest... the event system has serious problems in that the first check is to see if there is an event that takes place in a round and only one event CAN take place for each player. Natural world adjustments on the map should not be through that system except in perhaps a few rare cases because of that initial grouping of all possible random events into one pool with there first being a check to see if one happens at all, then a check to find out which. This is not about what the player is experiencing but about what the plot or tile may experience. To say it should happen as an event through the event system is like saying wanted promos should only be assigned due to an event. The growth of a forest is not an event but a dedicated system that controls the likelihood of a forest growing at a very rare random chance every round for each plot it might grow into, much like this system. However, a forest fire that erases the entire forest plot could and is indeed an event that a player can experience in his lands and is thus programmed as an event among all the possible events that can take place.

 

[Toffer90]

Like many others I dislike that Burnt Forest is not an event in Event Infos especially as there is such an event but it does not cause burnt forests to appear if you don't mitigate it.

We do have a forest fire event in addition to the woodland cycle mechanic atm.
The event does replace the forest with a burnt forest too.
It has no graphical fire effect, or burning sound effect, like the woodland cycle has though it does have a nice event picture in the event popup.
The forest fire event can only happen inside owned borders of the player it trigger for, and it will happen instead of another event when it happens (it reduces chance of other event happening each turn by existing).

The two should be merged somehow...
I think I could make the woodland cycle trigger the event for a player if it happens inside its borders, the event could then be disabled and thus never considered by the event system, but still triggered by the woodland cycle system.

 

[VCrakeV]

With all of this talk about burnt forests, I can't help but notice I haven't seen any. I updated to SVN last month, and the data for burnt forest is in the civilopedia. Were they very rare until a recent SVN update? By the way, I assume that units like the ancient flamethrower and arsonist can burn forests when attacking a tile with one?

 

[raxo2222]

It was recent addition, also units can't burn forests.
Also last month is effectively pretty long ago, as development picked up pace.