Caveman2Cosmos

[Cosmic Fox]

oh , i see

so can you tell me what options should i play with , for a non buggy game?

The options are a matter of game play preference seriously! The Mod does not have many bugs per say, new content sometimes is a bit unbalanced until they work it out, but I find no real issues. Revolutions on makes a bit more challenging game, I play with it on and off. Hover over each option in custom game, a description on each one pops up.

If you miss one or two, those same options can be changed in game thru the BUG Mod, the critter looking icon top left. I could list the ones I use each time, but it is how I play, I developed from trial and error over the nearly 3 years or so I have been playing this Mod. I began version 12 or so, maybe 15 I forgot the exact version.

Hover over each one, select the ones that sound interesting and try the game. I love the planet generator 68 map script. It provides you will the most choices for creating the world for you to play with.

Hope this helps you a bit, try to play at Snail speed and Warlord at first if you are slightly experienced. If you are an expert with Civ games go for Noble, that is a normal game, then prince etc.

 

[Thunderbrd]

1.every turn , all my cities grow unhappy and polluted , even if i block off growth
some turns , a city may go from happy +2 to negative 4 then again and again
its true you have buildings and civics to cover maybe -200 happiness , but not if it takes 500 turns to build those buildings and you get to -200 in 80 turns

Sounds like you're not controlling your properties. City Screen, middle right panel has a tab so you can track your properties, the amount the city holds of a property value and it's projected growth or reduction rate in (). Many units and buildings can modify the projected growth/reduction rate (trade also plays a role as well as plot to plot diffusion and a complex decay process that will seek to move the property towards a constant balance point for that property so take this system with some intuitiveness rather than absolute mathematical evaluation or you'll go nuts trying to control it perfectly.)

Crime, Disease, and Pollutions could be causing your cities to spiral out of control since they have been ignored.

2. the pathing to get to build a hydroplant ( any powerplant but hydro is best)
is execissvely convoluted , you have to get coppper , and iron and coal , make steel wares , make copper bars , make copper wires , build a factory . build power lines ...

Most likely subject to a lot of change soon as an Electricity property is in development that will change a lot about how power issues work. Also... we'd need to target what actually IS convoluted to do something about it. What here do you find irrational? Power lines being a prerequisite for building a power plant seems odd to me... a bit like putting the cart before the horse imo.

3. to build a library or say a christian monastery , you need all the above , then build a furniture factory (which needs power) , get glass ( not sure yet how)

You get glass from sand converted to glass by a building that would do so. You get furniture from any building that provides it. There are earlier buildings that would provide these things than ones that require electricity though we may be suffering from some of those buildings OBSOLETING which I don't feel they should do at all unless it becomes unimaginable that building would exist past a certain point. Until then they should merely be replaceable by the better, more modern, perhaps energy consuming building but not incapable of being built.

... now it took me 300 turns to get my resources in place to start a library
and by this time i have -200 pollution and - 200 happiness.

also takes 2 mins to roll the turn even on tiny map.

Yeah, this sounds like you're not starting in prehistoric which is HIGHLY suggested still. Some team members are working on some projects to make it more conducive to starting at a later era.

The messed up thing here is that the game still DEFAULTS to an Ancient start for whatever ungodly reason.

 

[God-Emperor]

The messed up thing here is that the game still DEFAULTS to an Ancient start for whatever ungodly reason.

If you only play C2C (or C2C and R2R, anyhow) it will default to what you used last which is likely to be ERA_PREHISTORIC.

If you play anything that does not have a Prehistoric Era but just the standard BtS set of eras it will default to what you played last regardless of what you last used in C2C since it stores the name, by type in text, of what was used in the Civ4 .ini file and all the regular eras exist in C2C, so it generally ends up being ERA_ANCIENT.

Thus if you play a mod, or just BtS, that doesn't have ERA_PREHISTORIC it defaults over to the first one that does exist: ERA_ANCIENT (generally). But going the other way ERA_ANCIENT does exist in C2C to it sticks with it. The exception to this is if you play a mod that uses completely different eras, like Final Frontier Plus which normally starts with ERA_ISOLATION. If you play FFP and then C2C, C2C will see an era it hasn't got and default to the first one in the era info file and that happens to be the desired ERA_PREHISTORIC.

So it is not an ungodly reason, it is your own fault for playing something other than C2C that uses eras that exist in C2C but not a Prehistoric era.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you only play C2C (or C2C and R2R, anyhow) it will default to what you used last which is likely to be ERA_PREHISTORIC.

If you play anything that does not have a Prehistoric Era but just the standard BtS set of eras it will default to what you played last regardless of what you last used in C2C since it stores the name, by type in text, of what was used in the Civ4 .ini file and all the regular eras exist in C2C, so it generally ends up being ERA_ANCIENT.

Thus if you play a mod, or just BtS, that doesn't have ERA_PREHISTORIC it defaults over to the first one that does exist: ERA_ANCIENT (generally). But going the other way ERA_ANCIENT does exist in C2C to it sticks with it. The exception to this is if you play a mod that uses completely different eras, like Final Frontier Plus which normally starts with ERA_ISOLATION. If you play FFP and then C2C, C2C will see an era it hasn't got and default to the first one in the era info file and that happens to be the desired ERA_PREHISTORIC.

So it is not an ungodly reason, it is your own fault for playing something other than C2C that uses eras that exist in C2C but not a Prehistoric era.

I'd agree with this assessment except that it will often lose its settings and go back to defaulting to Ancient without having played anything in the interrim. Then again, CivIV seems to simply revert everything in the ini back to defaults every so often and I haven't figured out what triggers this. So its probably when this happens that it will switch back to assuming Ancient starts.

 

[God-Emperor]

I'd agree with this assessment except that it will often lose its settings and go back to defaulting to Ancient without having played anything in the interrim. Then again, CivIV seems to simply revert everything in the ini back to defaults every so often and I haven't figured out what triggers this. So its probably when this happens that it will switch back to assuming Ancient starts.

Ah yes, the mysterious .ini reset. I also have no idea why it happens, but I have only seen it maybe 3 or 4 times. Still, that is 3 or 4 times more than it should have been. Fortunately I keep a copy of the file with my settings in it in case of just such an emergency (to quote Foghorn Leghorn, more or less).

 

[Tschuggi]

Compliments, strategy only and team, very good mod, tons of stuff to discover. Very good job!! And it is very stable now. Tried this a year or so back and had serious crashes, now not a single one and everything is almost running smooth, despite some hickups when scrolling over the landscape.
Two questions.
First: the ai is not attacking very much after having declared war. When it does and it is invading my lands, it does nothing after having met my very good defended cities. Not raiding improvements (bad), no suiciding on my walls (which is good), just stands around and does not even move its troops back to protect its homeland.
Second: could you implement a one-city-challenge-option in custom game? And a no-settler-option?

Greez,

Tschuggi

 

[Athmos]

Actually, there seems to be quite a few bugs with properties. And the balance is also say, quite far from perfect, which doesn't seem to prevent any modder to "move along" and add other half finished features instead.

The worst offender is the projected growth/decrease of a given properties, which has no discernible correlation to what actually happen between turns (VERY noticeable for pollution, particularly air). And there are bugs. In my games, I have suddenly started to have WILD variation of air pollution, in cities that had negative air pollution.

I cash bought many pollution fighting buildings, plus got the "eco scrapper in every city" wonder ("garden by the bay" ?). I had a keen eye on pollution since I hate its effects. The mechanism is good, if a bit obscure (diffusion feels very random at times, I don't know if it's weather related or just plain buggy, anyway NOT EXPLICIT AT ALL). Then suddenly, I started to have wild fluctuations, I'm talking plus or minus several thousands per turn in some (apparently random) cities. The concerned cities all had negative air pollution values, and negative "projected growth" for what it's worth. To me it looks like some value is looping on itself (overflow), which is quite an ugly bug.

I reported the bug a few days ago and no one did even answer the post. So, the mod does have some very unfinished parts, and the priorities of the modding community are sometime hard to understand.

As a personal opinion, the addition of new properties that look mostly redundant with the existing content while the most relevant ones, already in the game, are left in an half baked stage is a bit disappointing. And getting a game you spent something like 80 hours on to explode in a shitstorm of bug is not exactly rewarding.

There are lots of great ideas and content in C2C, but It seems to be really lacking a direction, a coherent design, and It looks like there are more people modding and adding stuff without much foresight than people actually playing the game.

 

[Yudishtira]

Actually, there seems to be quite a few bugs with properties. And the balance is also say, quite far from perfect, which doesn't seem to prevent any modder to "move along" and add other half finished features instead.

The worst offender is the projected growth/decrease of a given properties, which has no discernible correlation to what actually happen between turns (VERY noticeable for pollution, particularly air). And there are bugs. In my games, I have suddenly started to have WILD variation of air pollution, in cities that had negative air pollution.

I cash bought many pollution fighting buildings, plus got the "eco scrapper in every city" wonder ("garden by the bay" ?). I had a keen eye on pollution since I hate its effects. The mechanism is good, if a bit obscure (diffusion feels very random at times, I don't know if it's weather related or just plain buggy, anyway NOT EXPLICIT AT ALL). Then suddenly, I started to have wild fluctuations, I'm talking plus or minus several thousands per turn in some (apparently random) cities. The concerned cities all had negative air pollution values, and negative "projected growth" for what it's worth. To me it looks like some value is looping on itself (overflow), which is quite an ugly bug.

I reported the bug a few days ago and no one did even answer the post. So, the mod does have some very unfinished parts, and the priorities of the modding community are sometime hard to understand.

As a personal opinion, the addition of new properties that look mostly redundant with the existing content while the most relevant ones, already in the game, are left in an half baked stage is a bit disappointing. And getting a game you spent something like 80 hours on to explode in a shitstorm of bug is not exactly rewarding.

There are lots of great ideas and content in C2C, but It seems to be really lacking a direction, a coherent design, and It looks like there are more people modding and adding stuff without much foresight than people actually playing the game.

Please consider this a semi-official reply to your bug report.

I sympathize with your disappointment at not having your report acknowledged. The mod team seem to be very busy with bugs causing CTDs, so that would be the main reason.

Your problem does seem like a bug, although I couldn't say for certain as I've never played into the modern/postmodern eras. If you assume (for now) that it is not a bug, is your save still playable? It sounds like it is. So, as I say, I understand your annoyance, but I suggest your best course of action is to keep playing, dealing with the fluctuations as best you can. Keep a save from the current time, so that if it is a bug and gets fixed, you can continue your game from before it got too serious.

I'm not sure where you're getting a figure for projected growth in properties. The city screen gives the change in the property since last turn - I sometimes wish it would project it into the future, but as far as I'm aware...it doesn't...

I can assure you the modders are certainly playing the mod, however as you can imagine, they have less time to play because they are quite busy modding...

 

[platyping]

Because if you read some of those threads, you will realise 90% of the team only knows how to add stuff, while the 2 main bug catchers are both not available.
TB can fix SDK bugs, but big ones still have to wait for Koshling or AIAndy.
DH can fix python bugs, but has too many things to do, so python bugs are simply neglected unless game breaking.

Azure mentioned interest in learning python, but no one in the team bothered to guide him, so he ended up designing tons of new stuff only too.

By just taking a quick glance at some of those codes, like Volcano Event or Advanced Nukes, I can already pinpoint bugs. Some of these can be easily fixed within 1 minute, yet everyone is waiting for DH to do, I guess.
Even Route Pedia bug, which is present for months can be fixed in 10 minutes, if someone bothered to study how Sevo did the same for Traits which has no Jump Pedia Widget.

 

[strategyonly]

Because if you read some of those threads, you will realise 90% of the team only knows how to add stuff, while the 2 main bug catchers are both not available.
TB can fix SDK bugs, but big ones still have to wait for Koshling or AIAndy.
DH can fix python bugs, but has too many things to do, so python bugs are simply neglected unless game breaking.

Now that is a complete and very accurate assessment

But then again when we ask for help nobody seems to answer us Or they are ahem "to lazy" and now retired
Hmm if only a person from CFC would help C2C out, its not like asking for the world, that knows how to do stuff, but to no avail

 

[platyping]

Well not surprising that most people from CFC didn't help out.
Since C2C has too many features which other mods don't have, such as those pollution, crime blah blah blah.
When something goes wrong with the dll, who can help out, except God Emperor since he does the R2R thingy

When you asked me for python questions, I did answer them, just not in a straightforward way
Generally, I will only provide people with the fishing hook and tell them how to fish, but I won't provide them the fish directly, else they will never learn.
Although... there are exception cases

Nobody starts modding knowing how to mod.
Python and SDK may be hard to understand, but you get better with practise.

2 years ago, I don't even know how to load a mod.
You can check some of the newbie questions I asked (Most of which answered by The_J and some from God-Emperor (God... he is still around )
2 years later, half of the existing mods are using my mod components one way or another.

 

[strategyonly]

Well not surprising that most people from CFC didn't help out.
Since C2C has too many features which other mods don't have, such as those pollution, crime blah blah blah.
When something goes wrong with the dll, who can help out, except God Emperor since he does the R2R thingy

When you asked me for python questions, I did answer them, just not in a straightforward way
Generally, I will only provide people with the fishing hook and tell them how to fish, but I won't provide them the fish directly, else they will never learn.
Although... there are exception cases

Nobody starts modding knowing how to mod.
Python and SDK may be hard to understand, but you get better with practise.

2 years ago, I don't even know how to load a mod.
You can check some of the newbie questions I asked (Most of which answered by The_J and some from God-Emperor (God... he is still around )
2 years later, half of the existing mods are using my mod components one way or another.

I completely understand, but i am over 60 now and with ADHD its just to hard for me to understand most things, sorry Plus i am on meds, and its a very very potent one, Morphine.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Even Route Pedia bug, which is present for months can be fixed in 10 minutes, if someone bothered to study how Sevo did the same for Traits which has no Jump Pedia Widget.

Even faster than that when you consider that I setup a Jump Pedia Widget already.

I'm just hopelessly lost when I try to work with python myself. Particularly where pages are concerned. At some point here I have some projects where I'll be again challenging myself to overcome some resistance to py programming but I've often tried and found myself beating my head against a brick wall with SOMETHING about the structure... and I have yet to fully master the dll programming as well so y'know it's all just a work in progress mostly.

As for the property mechanism. It's written with extremely complex and advanced coding techniques I'm still finding to be a mystery in many places. Again there, at some point I'll have to overcome my gaps in knowledge but when bugs are reported on that, they pretty much have to wait for AIAndy or Koshling because when AIAndy set it up, he certainly didn't do so with the intention for the learning programmer to follow his footsteps.

 

[platyping]

See SO, even TB who has experience with C2C DLL cannot fully grasp the mechanics inside, then how will you expect outsiders to lend a helping hand?

Certainly it is not easy to be a master of both SDK and python, but it is not hard to understand the other when you have experience with one of them.
Afterall, it is still for loops, while loops, if else, and or etc.
Even I can read those SDK loops in bts when I want to understand certain stuff such as formula for real population.

Route pedia is not something meant for newbies with no python experience because it invokes more than one file to fix.

Volcano event can heal rather than damage is simple though.
Find the line, change it with correct logic, fixed.

If I can spot bugs by taking mere glances here and there, guess how many bugs go unnoticed because everyone just wants to add more of their own stuff into the mod?

Take a break from adding stuff and simply spend the time looking through each other codes.
What the writer may not notice can be easily spotted by another because he didn't realise such a situation may occur.

 

[Tschuggi]

So, to sum up my experience till now: great stuff, very much work put in, put toooo much quantity. Less but better stuff, quality instead of quantity, would make this great mod far better to play. F. e., I am teching faster than I can build all the buildings available. This is no fun, especially for a builder-type like me who wants to grasp every building available. But one can hardly grasp the atmosphere, meaning and use of buildings/troops, when there are tons and tons of them... and every third turn (or in my case every turn) there will be a ton of new buildings and troops.
I would axe at least half of these and concentrate more on game mechanics, stringent tech paths and really useful buildings and troops.
Now, it is a bit too much to enjoy. Sorry for these critical words, I know how much work you put in. And don't get me wrong, you did tons of good stuff. Now you have to reduce it to the really really good.

Greez,

Tschuggi

 

[strategyonly]

So, to sum up my experience till now: great stuff, very much work put in, put toooo much quantity. Less but better stuff, quality instead of quantity, would make this great mod far better to play. F. e., I am teching faster than I can build all the buildings available. This is no fun, especially for a builder-type like me who wants to grasp every building available. But one can hardly grasp the atmosphere, meaning and use of buildings/troops, when there are tons and tons of them... and every third turn (or in my case every turn) there will be a ton of new buildings and troops.
I would axe at least half of these and concentrate more on game mechanics, stringent tech paths and really useful buildings and troops.
Now, it is a bit too much to enjoy. Sorry for these critical words, I know how much work you put in. And don't get me wrong, you did tons of good stuff. Now you have to reduce it to the really really good.

Greez,

Tschuggi

See people got to understand not each town/city in RL is the same, so nether is it here, In a city with Population of a million has alot of buildings but do you think a town with the pop of 3000 has the same buildings?????
The 3000 town probably only has 1 STOP light, 1 grocery store, 3 gas stations, 2 banks, see what i am getting at.. Bigger cities MORE builds available, so your going to tell the Pet Store sorry, but we have too many buildings already, no room for you'll, just doesnt make sense.
C2C is ALL about OPTION's, nobody say you have to build everything, heck me and DH are builders also, infact, if you look at one of the latest post i wrote, it explains exactly how i play, and i dont even engage in War probably till Rens Era.

I know its a game, but again Options, Options, Options.

btw i dont take serious what anyone says, even when its BAD, remember its "Just a Game." And as i always say "Just Have Fun."

 

[Tschuggi]

See people got to understand not each town/city in RL is the same, so nether is it here, In a city with Population of a million has alot of buildings but do you think a town with the pop of 3000 has the same buildings?????
The 3000 town probably only has 1 STOP light, 1 grocery store, 3 gas stations, 2 banks, see what i am getting at.. Bigger cities MORE builds available, so your going to tell the Pet Store sorry, but we have too many buildings already, no room for you'll, just doesnt make sense.
C2C is ALL about OPTION's, nobody say you have to build everything, heck me and DH are builders also, infact, if you look at one of the latest post i wrote, it explains exactly how i play, and i dont even engage in War probably till Rens Era.

I know its a game, but again Options, Options, Options.

btw i dont take serious what anyone says, even when its BAD, remember its "Just a Game." And as i always say "Just Have Fun."

Too much options, and you are lost in your freedom of choice... so, sry for hurting your feelings, wasn't my goal. You made a great mod. Thanks.

Bye,

Tschuggi

 

[JosEPh_II]

So, to sum up my experience till now: great stuff, very much work put in, put toooo much quantity. Less but better stuff, quality instead of quantity, would make this great mod far better to play. F. e., I am teching faster than I can build all the buildings available. This is no fun, especially for a builder-type like me who wants to grasp every building available. But one can hardly grasp the atmosphere, meaning and use of buildings/troops, when there are tons and tons of them... and every third turn (or in my case every turn) there will be a ton of new buildings and troops.
I would axe at least half of these and concentrate more on game mechanics, stringent tech paths and really useful buildings and troops.
Now, it is a bit too much to enjoy. Sorry for these critical words, I know how much work you put in. And don't get me wrong, you did tons of good stuff. Now you have to reduce it to the really really good.

Greez,

Tschuggi

You did not post what Gamespeed you were palying at? C2C is recommended for Marathon or Snail. Normal can be played too but sometimes you can out tech what you are building. But even that is controllable thru the BUG options menu. By either checking or unchecking the Hide Obsolete or Hide Replaced Buildings options.

I play epic and have no problem using my new teched units/buildings.

Perhaps you've not explored your options well enough.

And yes there is a ton of stuff in C2C, but it's still a work in progress. I'm a long time player/critic and even I've asked for some "fat" trimming but I also acknowledge that is still evolving.

The mod is coming up on a crucial point for getting the Cosmos Era fleshed out. Hopefully the AI guys don't get burned out before that is finished.

And as SO has stated constructive criticism is always welcome.

JosEPh

 

[Tschuggi]

played on epic and on snail, tested a lot of options. As a builder guy, I love to develop slowly in detail and not to rush war unnecessarily. i focus heavy on GPs and Specialists and few but very elaborated cities. Atm, I tried to have only one city in a game on Emperor (or Monarch?) and have tons of GE settled, so I build and tech very fast. Each turn one new tech and one new building, while all my konkurrents AIs love me, although I have rutheless ai activated. I got attacked once, but could fend it off easily and made him agree to a peace treaty on my terms, after his troops stood around and did nothing, not even plundering. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the work. I just would love to have a better oversight over all that tons of new stuff. Would be very nice to have some option like "build x available buildings for y money" and bum, you can buy like 10 of the buildable buildings / troops (choose them from a pop-up-window), or maybe do sth with the hammer-overflow per round. It is possible to build multiple units per turn, why not buildings??? This would be a great new mechanic which would make totally sense. I'll try to reach the postmodern era and "report" back.

 

[Yudishtira]

You can build multiple anythings per turn. If you have say 600 production, queue up 5 buildings that cost 120-150 and they (well at least 4 of them) will build that turn.