Celts

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions

 

[Zaarin]

Let's be clear about something. Celtic people did not build Stonehenge. Druids did not build Stonehenge. Stonehenge was built long before the arrival of Celtic peoples. The British isles and Ireland have been inhabited by humans for many thousands of years, and Celts only arrived a few thousand years ago.

As I already pointed out.

 

[jsciv69]

Why is it that the Celts always get stiffed? They were the dominant culture in ancient Europe, and their influence persists to this day.

Actually the Celts have been featured throughout the series. I would welcome their return, However I wouldn't mind Ireland as a modern alternative with Michael Collins as leader.

 

[BojanR 81]

Well, Greek city-states are not the large metropolises we envision them as, either. A city-state involves a centralized administrative center and a lot of farms. Yes, a Greek polis was larger than a typical Gaulish polis, but the concept is the same.


Gauls are Celts, Celts are not Gauls. There were many Celtic groups: Galatians, Gauls, Lepontii, Belgae (who seem to have been a mix of Gauls and Germans), Cisalpine Gauls, Celtiberians, maybe Lusitanians, Britons, Gaels, maybe the Picts--"Celt" is a term for a wide group of linguistically and culturally related peoples, one particular set of whom were the Gauls. It's also something of a wastebin category for non-Germanic, non-Italic Indo-European peoples of Western and Central Europe, and the idea of a Celtic language family is increasingly coming under scrutiny--especially since the relationship between the Continental Celtic and Insular Celtic languages is opaque to say the least, and efforts to link them have been controversial.

Also note that Caesar made a distinction between the Celtic Gauls (Gallii), the Germano-Celtic Belgae, and the Vasconic Aquitanians, clearly recognizing cultural and linguistic differences among the groups. He also never referred to the Britons as Celts, even though linguistically they spoke a Celtic language and, according to some linguistic theorists, Brythonic may even form a dialect continuum with Gaulish (as I mentioned before, this theory is controversial, but it exists).

Native Americans never had organized empire but we had their faction in Civ 4 BTS. Personally I liked them. Same situation is with Polynesia in Civ 5. Why this cannot be done with the Celts in Civ 6.
About controversial teories: please, let's agree that we shouldn't open Pandora's box...

 

[Zaarin]

Native Americans never had organized empire but we had their faction in Civ 4 BTS. Personally I liked them. Same situation is with Polynesia in Civ 5. Why this cannot be done with the Celts in Civ 6.
About controversial teories: please, let's agree that we shouldn't open Pandora's box...

The Native Americans did indeed have organized empires, even in North America: Cahokia, Iroquois, Huron, Erie, Powhatan, Calusa, Comanche...However, given the enormous cultural and linguistic diversity among Native Americans, lumping them together into a single faction may be the single most egregious decision ever made by the franchise, far worse than, say, a "European" faction would be and even worse than Civ5's nightmare of a Celtic civ.

 

[JimmyBanks]

I'm only for the Gauls being in if Asterix is their leader...

 

[Zaarin]

I'm only for the Gauls being in if Asterix is their leader...

Still better than dreadlocked Welsh-speaking tattooed Boudicca in Edinburgh.

 

[BojanR 81]

The Native Americans did indeed have organized empires, even in North America: Cahokia, Iroquois, Huron, Erie, Powhatan, Calusa, Comanche...However, given the enormous cultural and linguistic diversity among Native Americans, lumping them together into a single faction may be the single most egregious decision ever made by the franchise, far worse than, say, a "European" faction would be and even worse than Civ5's nightmare of a Celtic civ.

First of all, I hope that you are not trolling.

Second, I do not agree with you about Celts and Gauls and also for Native American "empire". No, unfortunately for Native Americans they didn't had an empire.

Here are the two definitions of an empire:

1. An empire is defined as an aggregate of nations or people ruled over by an emperor or other powerful sovereign or government, usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire or Roman Empire.
2. An empire is like a state, only with one more layer of government. States generally have at least four levels of administration; empires have five. An empire is generally made up of a lot of states joined together. Sometimes these states are still mostly independent, sometimes they are totally part of the empire. The usual pattern of empires is that one state, for whatever reason, becomes stronger than its neighbors and conquers them, creating an empire.

Despite the fact that we are not agree about this topics, we can discus further about other topics.

P.S. I would like to have Native American tribes into Civ 6

 

[Zaarin]

First of all, I hope that you are not trolling.

Second, I do not agree with you about Celts and Gauls and also for Native American "empire". No, unfortunately for Native Americans they didn't had an empire.

Here are the two definitions of an empire:

1. An empire is defined as an aggregate of nations or people ruled over by an emperor or other powerful sovereign or government, usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire or Roman Empire.
2. An empire is like a state, only with one more layer of government. States generally have at least four levels of administration; empires have five. An empire is generally made up of a lot of states joined together. Sometimes these states are still mostly independent, sometimes they are totally part of the empire. The usual pattern of empires is that one state, for whatever reason, becomes stronger than its neighbors and conquers them, creating an empire.

Despite the fact that we are not agree about this topics, we can discus further about other topics.

P.S. I would like to have Native American tribes into Civ 6

Then I would suggest you probably do not have a sufficient understanding of Native American history and culture if a "Native American" civilization makes sense to you. In terms of cultural and linguistic diversity, a Native American civilization is as ridiculous as an Asian civilization: the Iroquois and Navajo are no more similar than the Koreans and Pakistanis and far more dissimilar than any European civ in the game is from any other.

 

[ProMeTheus112]

he said tribes, could be any tribe ya know
or nation

 

[Zaarin]

he said tribes, could be any tribe ya know
or nation

If that's the case, I apologize. I understood him to mean that he wanted a Civ4-style "Native American civilization," not a civilization that is Native American (the apparent absence of which has me fairly steamed).

 

[BojanR 81]

If that's the case, I apologize. I understood him to mean that he wanted a Civ4-style "Native American civilization," not a civilization that is Native American (the apparent absence of which has me fairly steamed).

It's OK Zaarin , you didn't understood me well.
I said I would like to have Native American tribes into Civ 6 not Native American civilization.

Apology accepted!

 

[Zaarin]

It's OK Zaarin , you didn't understood me well.
I said I would like to have Native American tribes into Civ 6 not Native American civilization.

Apology accepted!

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding--we're on the same page now.

 

[Depravo]

Still better than dreadlocked Welsh-speaking tattooed Boudicca in Edinburgh.

Coming atcha from the serrated peaks of her East Anglian homeland.

 

[plasmacannon]

I think the best way to represent the celts would be to add another unique bonus to every civ as a kind of starting bonus that relates to how to civ or its precursors were in 4000 bc.

So many ancient civilisations are deserving involvement in the series but realistically will never be represented properly. So if we can show how they transitioned through time and eventually ended up forming Rome or England or the Inca, I think we would have a pretty cool solution, and it would feel very Civilization appropriate.

You idea would indeed be an interesting adaptation for a mod.

The Civ4 mods Caveman 2 Cosmos and Realism Invictus have something like this.

C2C starts you off with European culture or Asian culture or African culture.
Then depending on what resource combinations you find near your cities it will permit you to build that culture and those UUs and UBs. Wine is required or France. Others would be different.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=444594

Realism Invictus isn't as huge, but runs faster. For example America uses earlier units from the Vikings. Everyone's archers are different. Persia has a bonus in deserts, while Maya are better in jungles.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411799