CES I: Terrorism

[DripInc.]

Alrighty, here's the first game in the Civilizational Edumacational School! For those of you who don't know, this is the premier installment of a series which home thread can be found right thur.

Settings:
This game we will be playing as Saladin of Arabia on a Pangaea Tiny map, Noble difficulty, Normal Game speed, default victory conditions and default options.

Lesson Goals (in order of importance):

1. Learn about the American leaders Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Washington. Analyze personality, aggression, willingness to trade, expansion tactics, wonder tendencies etc. (apart from numbers like peace weights)

2. Learn how to play as Saladin. Learn about the Camel Archer and Madrassa, the Protective and Spiritual traits, and his starting technologies; Mysticism and The Wheel.


You don't have to necessarily go into explicit detail on each subject, but a solid explanation of the first one or two (and third if you can) is advised.

I don't pretend to be a CIV expert, but I've been around in my day. I'll give what little insight I can on the UU and UB but I won't promise anything earth shattering.

The UU:

Spoiler :

The Camel Archer replaces the Knight and gains a 15% withdrawal chance while requiring no Iron. From what I see around here, not many people really use the Knight for major war purposes (or any midgame war since the cavalry was nerfed). While the loss for need of Iron is nice, at this point in the game, there's a good chance you have already managed to obtain some Iron. The withdrawal chance is also nice, allowing for approx~1 out of every 6 or 7 get a second chance at the fray (14 instead of 12). Also, the fact that it doesn't receive defense bonuses (and the fact that it's not an archer or gunpowder unit) means it doesn't get the benefits from Saladin's Protective trait.

The UB:

Spoiler :

The Madrassa is the Arabian replacement for the Library and gives it a +2 boost to it's original 2 culture and allows 2 priests to be assigned to the city. This blends well for those who may shoot for an early religion and want a quick prophet to build a shrine in the founding city, and can also act as a decent Creative trait replacement, giving a +2 boost to a building that is generally placed in every city (at least in my games).

And finally...

Starting Position:

Spoiler :

Not horrible, but not terrific. Saladin doesn't start with any food techs, so that may be our first priority. Clams should be a good source, but we may have some land food hidden in that fog...

I'll play along and I'll do my best, but I'm by no means a pro at this game so don't be too surprised if I uh...a few peas short of the casserole...


SO, try to post as follows:

4000 BC (starting position)
~1500 BC (First couple of turns, show where you settled, how you started, who you met, etc.)
500 BC-200 AD (Start of serious expansion, meeting the neighbors)
1000-1600 AD (Expansion, Diplomacy, anything you notice?)
Endgame (victory conditions, preparations for war, diplo, or cultural

PLEASE try to write in detail so we can LEARN something. Don't just post a screenshot of you winning. That doesn't help anyone.

My run:
4000 BC-1760 BC

NOTE: Attached is a .zip file of the Noble save and a World Builder save for any customizations you may want. (I generally play with no events, huts, or espionage, but whatever you want is cool.)

 

[Framesticker]

Settle 1E, build a warrior while teching Fishing, etc.

 

[michmbk]

I assume frame meant settle 1W, but I think the lesson on #3 is probably more like:

3. Assuming we find horses, learn how to win on a pangaea map on prince & below by researching about 10 techs, using waypoints and the alt button for production...

There's no chance of using the camel archer if we have horses - I'll do a quick demo of that a little later on. Prince pangaea or below, it's not going to matter who the opponents are...

 

[Framesticker]

I assume frame meant settle 1W, but I think the lesson on #3 is probably more like:

3. Assuming we find horses, learn how to win on a pangaea map on prince & below by researching about 10 techs, using waypoints and the alt button for production...

There's no chance of using the camel archer if we have horses - I'll do a quick demo of that a little later on. Prince pangaea or below, it's not going to matter who the opponents are...

Actually no, I did mean 1E on the Spices. Extra commerce, instant access to resource when we get Calendar and gains us more immediately useful land tiles. If one of those western plains have Horse/Metal, we can always stick a junk city there.

 

[huerfanista]

Actually no, I did mean 1E on the Spices. Extra commerce, instant access to resource when we get Calendar and gains us more immediately useful land tiles. If one of those western plains have Horse/Metal, we can always stick a junk city there.

I don't really see the point of going west unless you really like brown tiles. Looks to be jungle to the south and not much chance of going north.

 

[michmbk]

Actually no, I did mean 1E on the Spices. Extra commerce, instant access to resource when we get Calendar and gains us more immediately useful land tiles. If one of those western plains have Horse/Metal, we can always stick a junk city there.

Got it - you're probably right now that I look closer - better to take the risk of the unknown tiles than the known crappy tiles. Probably makes sense overall.

 

[DripInc.]

If we're going to move, it'll definitely be 1E.But what do you think about just settling in place? Save a turn and we already basically know what we're getting. Two two south fog tiles look hillish so the only ones we really don't know is the tiles past spice.

 

[lymond]

Food - It's because of what we do know. Most experience players are going to play this early conquest and food is important for that. Farm the flood plains, 3 known hills, lake farm and 2 clams and you can get a horse archer rush pretty quick

I won conquest in 300AD which is very late in my book, but I don't do HA rushes much at all. Plus Sal isn't set up to get HAs very quickly because of his start techs/traits. Also, my big mistake was not getting chariots out much earlier - I just didn't think about it as I was focused on HAs.

 

[lymond]

Actually no, I did mean 1E on the Spices. Extra commerce, instant access to resource when we get Calendar .

Calendar may not even come into play

 

[michmbk]

Calendar may not even come into play

Calendar definitely does not come into play...

Spoiler :

Slower than Lymond - probably should have started earlier with chariots, but I waited for HAs

But I stuck to my guns - 10 techs on the nose. Fishing-AG-AH-Minimg-BW-HBR-Hunting-Archery-Pottery-IW. Turn off tech just because. I technically didn't need IW, but I saw a lot of jungle so I figured I better.

Clearly I failed lessons 1 and 2. I think I did ok on lesson 3.

Whip whip chop whip go go go..

Seriously - Roosevelt Oracled FEUDALISM on Noble!?!?!?!

Whatever - he needs more than the 2 longbows I saw to matter.

Spears don't counter 7XP HAs effectively at all - nothing pre-longbows do. And all done.

That was a fun hour.

 

[lymond]

That was a fun hour.

 

[DripInc.]

Alright, two solid wins, but Lymond, you didn't really post anything about your game, nothing instructive about the lessons or any insight on the leader behavior. Early rushes are fun, but that's not one of our goals and if you're going to do an early rush, at least give us some insight on how you did it.

Same for you Mich, at least you put up pictures and acknowledge the lessons...but try to keep closer to them.

I'll put up my first little bit in a sec.

 

[lymond]

Hey Drip - True, I need to post something if I'm going to comment. This series isn't really edumacational for guys like mich and me. We're just going to play the map how we feel is best, which in this case is "Dances with Horse Archers".

Anyway, I've been helping out a couple of other gents on the forum so haven't had to to post a report, but I will do so.

I did learn that those 3 American leaders were a bunch of pansies

edit: Meant to add that if you are setting certain goals for game, you might want to select a map and options that are more suited. Tiny Pangaea is a cakewalk and things like Camel Archers will not see the light of day with folks above Noble.

 

[michmbk]

Spoiler :

Whip whip chop whip go go go..

Funny, I thought my quote above was basically the main lesson on a small pangaea...there isn't much thinking needed on that type of map:

Spoiler :

I gave the tech order, builds in my first two cities were 1 monument, two granaries, two barracks then two stables. Then I hit alt-horse archer for both, whipping about every 10 turns.

Every captured city was monument/granary/barracks and maybe a stable or two, followed by alt-horse archer.

Waypointed them all to the east to get them near the action.

I'd suggest that if you want to get use out of Saladin's traits, UU/UB, you roll a fractal standard map.

Maybe something with all the americans and all of some other civ, like russia. Or at least get something where there are separate continents. That way at least the game will last beyond the early ADs

 

[DripInc.]

Hey, if the game is too easy for you guys, use the WBsave and up the difficulty. You don't HAVE to play on Noble...

 

[lymond]

You can win this map with HA rush up to IMM. Some maybe on Deity.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Specifically targeting a UU pre-game is usually not a good idea (excepting very early rush UUs). If there's any lesson to take away from #2 and #3, it's to adapt situationally...not to try to specifically "leverage" a UU that will in many cases be a bad idea. That thing is no cataphract anyway.

Anyway given that this is <monarch and pangaea I'd settle 1W and work the FP while building a warrior. Pop 2 stagnate and train a couple more warriors; use about 5 to kill the first AI and clean up the rest with chariots (preferred for speed) or axes as available. Possibly working the grass hill until the plains hill is available would be faster; would have to calculate that out.

 

[DripInc.]

Specifically targeting a UU pre-game is usually not a good idea (excepting very early rush UUs). If there's any lesson to take away from #2 and #3, it's to adapt situationally...not to try to specifically "leverage" a UU that will in many cases be a bad idea. That thing is no cataphract anyway.

Anyway given that this is <monarch and pangaea I'd settle 1W and work the FP while building a warrior. Pop 2 stagnate and train a couple more warriors; use about 5 to kill the first AI and clean up the rest with chariots (preferred for speed) or axes as available. Possibly working the grass hill until the plains hill is available would be faster; would have to calculate that out.

Ya, I probably shouldn't have put 2 and 3. The main purpose of this game is just to get to know the American leaders. I would like to learn about the UU and UB, but not at the expense of #1.

 

[DripInc.]

Alright, Posting my first little tidbit.

4000 BC-1760 BC

I decided to settle in place, trying to save a turn of expansion, tech building, etc. Found gems to the south and another spice! I'm thinking possibly Colossus, but I didn't play specifically towards it. I'm thinking a good Commerce Bureaucracy capital.

Spoiler :

My production queue in the capital went something like Warrior>Work Boat>Warrior> Worker>Chopped Settler>Warrior. Technologies went Fishing>Meditation(did discover Buddhism utilizing the extra food/commerce clams)>Writing>Agriculture>BW>AH>Alphabet. My scouting paid off as I came up with...

Spoiler :

I met the three pretty quick (obviously) but I still don't know exactly where Washington is. I decided a good place to settle would be the Rice/Cow/Hill spot SW, but alas, Lincoln beats me to it by a turn or two.

Spoiler :

So I settled the Sugar/Rice spot. Should have done it a 1N but whatever. Maybe it will deter Lincoln. But dang, Lincoln really cramped my style. I dunno if it was necessarily fast (~2000 BC, 2-4 turns before the screenshot was taken) but I was not happy.

So, now I need feedback. I have a nice little desert to my south, jungle on my second city and no way to expand east...except nice little horsies to the NE. I'm looking for possibly the Pig/Horse site NE of the capital...

Spoiler :

Any ideas for teching? Any criticism (much I'm sure) so far?

What I've learned:

1. Lincoln is showing signs of being an aggressive expander, but maybe it's just me being butt sore.

2. Huts are lame. Should've taken them and events off....stupid, stupid.

 

[michmbk]

I agree on the huts -they completely skew comparisons. Two pretty solid techs from huts.

I'd say working on getting the settler out faster is key. It was pretty clear about 20-25 turns in that we were going to be boxed in by Lincoln, so the key is to aggressively settle towards him to claim land. Looks like you may be left with 3 cities absent war, or possibly 4 if the stone island off the coast has food.

The irony of it all is that this means you need horse archers! Lincoln is a pretty soft leader in my opinion. Doesn't build a lot of units, and I've never found him to be dominant in any games I can remember. He should be ripe for a rush.

None of the american leaders typically do all that well in my games, but I find Washington tends to be the toughest of the three to me. The big thing with him is giving into his demands - he's very likely to DOW you if you don't give in to his demands.

It's likely that Roosevelt will build most of the wonders in this game if you don't, but again, that makes him easier to destroy with aggression.

I'll be interested to see if any of the americans attack each other - ironic from a historical perspective if nothing else. Almost makes me want to run a game with all three american and all three russian leaders to see what happens!