LegionGlory
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For Culture games either Ruhr or Panama Canal.
CFC: Fastest STANDARD SETTINGS Deity Science Victory
- Thread starter Bangau
- Start date
LegionGlory
Chieftain
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Also Ayutthaya had a bug which makes the culture boost 60% of the cost of the building instead of 10%
LegionGlory
Chieftain
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Another T113 from Babylon with pillage lol with no self-built campuses
Firaxis really should fix pillage yields
And also fix Babylon
Firaxis really should fix pillage yields
And also fix Babylon
I dont expect to see HOF-games with those numbers. I have looked a bit at this chineese player, and it becomes a different ball game when you start every game with a relic and religious settlements. But there is no doubt the guy is good. Probably could beat us also in HOF-format. Without pillage I would be surprised to see any HoF-game below 140-150. Even with babylon. And I would still consider any HOF-game in the 160-170s as extremly fast. But it really is two different ball games. I am one of those that happens to enjoy both of them, so right now Im trying to figure out if I can beat his 109 with pillage and save/reloads. Although I can see already that it will probably not translate to a HOF-strategy.
Yuuup, it’s waaaay different with reloading to that extent. Being able to correct mistakes outside of hof is huge but hut reloads are on another level entirely. something like 40 gold then reloading and popping a relic the next turn is a good illustration of how broken it is.
Especially when it’s early game, and that relic nets you rs despite zero other sources of faith, and you can squeeze a settler before it to temporarily avoid the cost escalation, then flip it to an ai for ~400g and 20/turn on turn 25. I mean you’re looking at a start that’s probably what, like 300% stronger? You’re basically starting with a lot of the same advantages that the deity ai gets.
that said, I do think 109 will fall pretty quickly. I struggled to find ways that that first game with China could be improved, but this Babylon one seems less optimized by comparison, though obviously still very impressive.
It’ll be interesting to see just how low we can push them. I really want a science win under 100, and I think on a perfect map that could be pretty doable. So much left to figure out with Babylon, though. Warlords vs ah? Conquer early or let the ai develop? Rush techs or slow roll it to avoid district escalation? List goes on
Especially when it’s early game, and that relic nets you rs despite zero other sources of faith, and you can squeeze a settler before it to temporarily avoid the cost escalation, then flip it to an ai for ~400g and 20/turn on turn 25. I mean you’re looking at a start that’s probably what, like 300% stronger? You’re basically starting with a lot of the same advantages that the deity ai gets.
that said, I do think 109 will fall pretty quickly. I struggled to find ways that that first game with China could be improved, but this Babylon one seems less optimized by comparison, though obviously still very impressive.
It’ll be interesting to see just how low we can push them. I really want a science win under 100, and I think on a perfect map that could be pretty doable. So much left to figure out with Babylon, though. Warlords vs ah? Conquer early or let the ai develop? Rush techs or slow roll it to avoid district escalation? List goes on
Minou
King
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Oh OK, I was blown away that anyone could get T113 and thought maybe there was some secret Babylon strategy I didn't know about. I'm not very interested in re-load games since they are so different from a real game. Especially with Babylon you can go pretty wild and re-load huts until they give you double boosts and so get 2 whole techs per hut!
HOF really is a moving target. I'd say if you take Babylon for example you might get something like this for standard settings (Standard Map, Continents, Standard Speed, Deity, 12CS/8Civ)
Peaceful Game - T175 upper limit (just guessing, haven't tried yet)
* Violent Game - T150 upper limit
* Violent Game also letting AI cities flip for pillaging - T140 upper limit (almost unlimited gold/faith but can't "buy" science directly)
* Violent Game also using "City Chopping" - T125 upper limit
* Violent Game with known map and unlimited re-loading (beeline city states, best hut rewards, escape bad combat rolls) - T100 upper limit
* Any game with early Nalanda (until they fix the bug) - maybe T80 upper limit? I haven't tried this but I take it there is a lot of work building the Space stuff even if you effectively get all techs on T25.
Then you have all these other variables:
* Pangea (or some other maps) probably knocks 10 turns or so off by making it easier to keep conquering without wasting time on Cartography and letting you meet all CS more quickly.
* I never play Apocalypse, Secret Societies or Heroes since I hate how they make the game feel fictional, but I take it the right combination of these can knock 10-20 turns off a given version.
* Legendary starts or adding more CS, choosing Natural Wonders, AIs or CS all shave off some number of turns, depends on which ones.
Of course the map itself (start point, natural wonders, CS, huts) matters a ton too but I was thinking more of the way we decided to play.
And then after all that, the threshold changes every two months thanks to patches - it was only a short time ago AIs had no walls on T100 and Public Transportation still gave you 10,000g!
HOF really is a moving target. I'd say if you take Babylon for example you might get something like this for standard settings (Standard Map, Continents, Standard Speed, Deity, 12CS/8Civ)
Peaceful Game - T175 upper limit (just guessing, haven't tried yet)
* Violent Game - T150 upper limit
* Violent Game also letting AI cities flip for pillaging - T140 upper limit (almost unlimited gold/faith but can't "buy" science directly)
* Violent Game also using "City Chopping" - T125 upper limit
* Violent Game with known map and unlimited re-loading (beeline city states, best hut rewards, escape bad combat rolls) - T100 upper limit
* Any game with early Nalanda (until they fix the bug) - maybe T80 upper limit? I haven't tried this but I take it there is a lot of work building the Space stuff even if you effectively get all techs on T25.
Then you have all these other variables:
* Pangea (or some other maps) probably knocks 10 turns or so off by making it easier to keep conquering without wasting time on Cartography and letting you meet all CS more quickly.
* I never play Apocalypse, Secret Societies or Heroes since I hate how they make the game feel fictional, but I take it the right combination of these can knock 10-20 turns off a given version.
* Legendary starts or adding more CS, choosing Natural Wonders, AIs or CS all shave off some number of turns, depends on which ones.
Of course the map itself (start point, natural wonders, CS, huts) matters a ton too but I was thinking more of the way we decided to play.
And then after all that, the threshold changes every two months thanks to patches - it was only a short time ago AIs had no walls on T100 and Public Transportation still gave you 10,000g!
Casualty of war
Prince
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Hercules-ing a Spaceport into play saves quite a few Turns. Heroes are goofy.
If you want to see the Nalanda upper limit, that map I included is about as perfect as it can be and is a straight-RNG map. The only reason why I didn't finish the tech tree sooner is because I Scouted eastward instead of westward initially. Knowing the map, it might even be faster to move your initial Settler to Piopiotahi for the free Culture to get you to Amani even faster.
CivVI is now official dumb. Future Tech in the Ancient, anyone?
If you want to see the Nalanda upper limit, that map I included is about as perfect as it can be and is a straight-RNG map. The only reason why I didn't finish the tech tree sooner is because I Scouted eastward instead of westward initially. Knowing the map, it might even be faster to move your initial Settler to Piopiotahi for the free Culture to get you to Amani even faster.
CivVI is now official dumb. Future Tech in the Ancient, anyone?
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To be fair that is a bug, so I dont think that will stay there much longer. But pillage will have to be nerfed, or only peacefull games will be interessting... Right now pillage breaks the game...
Minou
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OK, I am going to try out the Nalanda bug while it lasts. Just started a game and met them T24. Annoyingly Spain sent 3 envoys before I was able to hire Amani, so I guess I will have to wait all the way to T50 or so get all techs (LOL).
Actually now that I am sitting down to play it, it is a real mind puzzle to truly optimize - e.g. Should I take all techs ASAP or be more careful so as to for example place more districts before pumping their cost through the roof? Should I unlock all these crazy modern units and try and chop them, or should I pump out a bunch of cheap Ancient Era units first and then try to upgrade them with gold instead? Even with all the techs on T10, you have a long way to go to build Spaceports and launch spaceships and lasers.
If I don't embarrass myself I will post the results but in a different thread since I really don't think it's fair to compare Nalanda games to standard HOF.
It is kind of shocking that the Devs did not fix this very obvious bug in the last patch. Of course you don't HAVE to abuse it but it can kind of ruin the purity of a game where you naturally encounter Nalanda and gain/lose Suzerain status just because an AI is competing. I wouldn't expect someone to quit their HOF run if that happens, but it would put an asterisk on the final time if the bug gave out 2-3 extra free techs.
Actually now that I am sitting down to play it, it is a real mind puzzle to truly optimize - e.g. Should I take all techs ASAP or be more careful so as to for example place more districts before pumping their cost through the roof? Should I unlock all these crazy modern units and try and chop them, or should I pump out a bunch of cheap Ancient Era units first and then try to upgrade them with gold instead? Even with all the techs on T10, you have a long way to go to build Spaceports and launch spaceships and lasers.
If I don't embarrass myself I will post the results but in a different thread since I really don't think it's fair to compare Nalanda games to standard HOF.
It is kind of shocking that the Devs did not fix this very obvious bug in the last patch. Of course you don't HAVE to abuse it but it can kind of ruin the purity of a game where you naturally encounter Nalanda and gain/lose Suzerain status just because an AI is competing. I wouldn't expect someone to quit their HOF run if that happens, but it would put an asterisk on the final time if the bug gave out 2-3 extra free techs.
Casualty of war
Prince
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Get all the techs then watch for meteor strikes? A early, free Modern Armor unit is pretty good even on Deity.
The drag I've found is Babylon x 1000; you don't have the production to make all the cool stuff you know how to make. It takes a whole lot of chops, even 200 Hammer chops, to build a Spaceport.
I suspect the key to fastest Nalanda-Hammurabi is primarily using Nalanda to get past the techs you can only boost with Spies and to dig for Laser Stations. 100 Turns of fairly indistinguishable game setting up infrastructure then purchased Spaceport to Alpha Centauri in 20 Turns.
I wonder how fast you will get it. I think still you will need to have some sort of empire or good base cities to work out from. You will have amazing chops, but you need money to buy spaceports, and culture for reynas promotions. Without pillageing Im not sure you can get below 100 turns. So pillage games might even be faster than getting all techs for free... Will be fun to see how fast you can get it. These types of challenges are almost like puzzles. =)
Minou
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Managed to win on T114 - or is it T113, I never remember if the turn you press "end" or the start of the next turn is the real Science Victory turn. I played it straight - no reloads - which hurt a ton since I made a horrible error early that cost me a ton of turns, had a poor idea of how to plan the game and got very lazy with the Lasers at the end. I am certain I can go under T100 on a replay. Will write a brief report when I can a minute.
Im in the 90s of my pillage game now, but I can see I will fail getting sub 100. To press everything into that few turns require a lot of planning to find the bottlenecks and take care of them. Right now it seems that chopping projects is what delays the win. I cant afford to tour magnus for all the chops, and I dont have good enough chop cities. Im miles away from using workers to boost it, so Im pretty sure the soulution would have to be more chop cities and using both Reyna and Moksha for at least 5 spaceports. Sub 100 is possible for sure, but it is very hard to time it all.
Yeah I ran into the same bottleneck. You think 5 ports? I’m assuming that’s mostly for chopping the 3rd and fourth?
i thiiiink I’ve got a game going where sub100 might be possible but I’m struggling a bit with trying to juggle setting up chop cities v infrastructure v army. Warlords v ancestral is tricky too, warlords helps so much with chops but those builders from ah can get your districts in your core cities slammed so fast before the costs balloon too high
i thiiiink I’ve got a game going where sub100 might be possible but I’m struggling a bit with trying to juggle setting up chop cities v infrastructure v army. Warlords v ancestral is tricky too, warlords helps so much with chops but those builders from ah can get your districts in your core cities slammed so fast before the costs balloon too high
Minou
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I messed up a ton of things in the first T114 game and am trying a replay just to see if sub T100 is possible. On T60 and pretty sure it will be. Certainly not a normal way to play but I love variants of Civ so it’s a fun holiday puzzle to mess with. I do think 5 Spaceports is probably correct, maybe even more.
one thing that translates to normal games is optimizing the space chopping within a tight time frame. I often feel like I spoil a great effort over the first 120 turns with poor planning by forgetting to move key Governors, chopping a forest that should have been saved for the space race, or forgetting to get enough Power. This game is a good one to practice those skills.
one thing that translates to normal games is optimizing the space chopping within a tight time frame. I often feel like I spoil a great effort over the first 120 turns with poor planning by forgetting to move key Governors, chopping a forest that should have been saved for the space race, or forgetting to get enough Power. This game is a good one to practice those skills.
How does warlords throne help your chops? Im pretty sure that prod boost does not affect chops, like other unspecified prod bonuses.
I think 5 spaceports will probably be a minimum if you need to chop everything, but I need to test more to figure out the best formula. With these ultrafast games the timing is way different than a normal end game, and much harder. I will try to finish my current game at least and then start to look for ways to improve it.
No they do not for chops. Same with Ruhr and happiness. Only things like HK that specifies what they boost will help.
