CFC Off Topic Turned Me Into a Fascist

[Hygro]

Thing is liberals preach about tolerence and understanding but are often just as bad as the right and they suffer from reverse racism vs the whites just because some white oppressed a minority, somewhere in the world 100+ years ago before any of us were even born. Inherited sin gotta love it.

Let's distill this to something more obvious: if my father robbed his neighbor's house, held his neighbor's possessions, gave them to me, then died, would I not have a moral obligation to make right with my neighbor, by giving back what is rightfully his?


P.S. if you feel THIS oppressed by progressivism, imagine how bad it is if you suffered the after-effects of real oppression.

 

[PiMan]

Oh sure. Let's use utopia to define left-wing economics instead of socialism.

Both communism/anarcho-socialism and standard socialism are left wing economics. It isn't just defined as "give government more power".

 

[Princeps]

The best argument out there was brought up by _____, who stated that Hitler appealed to the European right wing. That I would agree with. But dig deeper, and one finds many left wing policies brought forth. True Hitler hated Communists, but he was a man of labor, and most of his domestic policies were evident of that.

It is obvious that you have not read the economic history of the third reich. The idea that the nazis were concerned with people's lack of jobs is quite nonsense. They weren't. Hitler was certainly not a man of labor: he abolished labor unions and used their accumilated funds for the armement program. His job creation efforts were only symbolical, often involving very easy and quite simple projects like draining some swamps or building roads (which was also appropriate for defensive purposes). In reality, despite the widespread propaganda, these programs were few and employed a small amount of labor. It was important to appear to be doing something, especially when the NS policies were deliberately sabotaging the post depression recovery (the housing market boom was suppressed, wages were deliberately suppressed etc). Most of the money went toward the rearmament project.

More than anything, Hitler was ultimately a dicator with bizarre policies that transcended todays definitions of political philosophy. My point is that those who call him a extreme right winger don't really know what an extreme right winger is.

Hitler was politically right wing, especially in privacy and with his comrades and pro-business supporters, to whom he promised to dismantle the left wing parties and labor unions. He even massacred the SA, who were the last bastion of street brawling economic populism in the Nazi party. Elsewhere, the fascists were synonimous with the catholic right. Etc. Hitler controlled the industries of the third reich not by nationalizing them, but by integrating them into the regime through cartels, which were oftentimes very profitable to the companies.

 

[uat2d]

Democracy is the worst form of government... except all the others that have been tried.

 

[Zardnaar]

Let's distill this to something more obvious: if my father robbed his neighbor's house, held his neighbor's possessions, gave them to me, then died, would I not have a moral obligation to make right with my neighbor, by giving back what is rightfully his?


P.S. if you feel THIS oppressed by progressivism, imagine how bad it is if you suffered the after-effects of real oppression.

What about your great great great grandfather. Also I didn't inherit squat from previous generations except a few second hand toys from older brother. Didn't get any land that was owned by natives either

 

[Erik Mesoy]

When it is the local right wing in some countries (Australia) and the local left wing in others (USA), I'd say centrist is a reasonable place to peg it.

The first counterexample that springs to mind is Singapore, where the US right wing would be the local left wing from what I've heard of the country.

 

[Masada]

I don't think that's the case. Then again, I hate trans-national comparisons of political parties. I will say this -- the only comparisons I would be willing to make would be between Singapore and say Malaysia, maybe Taiwan, definitely not Indonesia although it might be possible if I looked at the New Order period and the same for the Philippines if I only looked at it under Marcos. Even then, I do believe that the Singaporean opposition or what exists of it is fairly left wing kind of like what the left faction of the Barisan Nasional (BN) used to be before it was purged or maybe the Democratic Action Party (DAP) which is the only other secular ethno-centric left-wing party in the region I can think of. Otherwise the Singaporean opposition doesn't have any regional comparators, its rather unique, the product of being left trying to compete in the most right wing part of the country, with a communist insurgency raging across the border in Malaysia, and with no real way of building up its support base aside from when the ruling party had some internal issues and shed some members.

It's literally a dinosaur in the region, all its secular left-wing buddies either (A) died out politically like the secular left in Indonesia, (B) were swallowed up by composite parties like the BN which subverted their internal structures before removing the left wing content from their platforms or (C) never really existed. The Malaysian left embodied in the DAP is so screwed electorally its going to end up joining up with the BN (and in turn it'll go down path (B)) to stop Islamic fundies Anwar Ibrahim gaining power. Those Indonesian secular left wing parties that existed were destroyed electorally by Sukarno, who more or less sold them out to the Partai Komnus Indonesia (Communist Party of Indonesia: PKI), those that survived like the Partai Sosialis Indonesia (Socialist Party of Indonesia: PSI) and the Partai Buruh (Labour Party) were rendered utterly ineffective by Suharto when he rolled the secular nationalists and the Islamic parties into a single party -- with the sole aim of having them kill each other thus rendering them utterly useless as an electoral agent (they mostly went the way of (A) effectively ended as electoral forces by Sukarno's later political debacles and their own ineffectiveness after that point, they ultimately died out via (B) but they were negligible by that point already). I don't know what to make of it and I don't believe there's a party or parties that electorally mirror it anywhere in the world...

 

[Cutlass]

Thing is liberals preach about tolerence and understanding but are often just as bad as the right and they suffer from reverse racism vs the whites just because some white oppressed a minority, somewhere in the world 100+ years ago before any of us were even born. Inherited sin gotta love it.

It's not like racism isn't an every day phenomena even now... Oh right, it is..

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

"No no no, I'm reasonable, you're fringe!"

Actually I'm further marginalizing myself with that comment.

Sorry, please try again.

Oh sure. Let's use utopia to define left-wing economics instead of socialism.

Does socialism not strive to create a classless society? Is capitalism not entirely dependent on a structure of privileged haves and dependent have-nots?

Its probably a mistake to ask someone that who 1. thinks that Russia is still socialist and 2. doesn't understand what a deformed workers' state is, but I like to have faith sometimes.

 

[plarq]

"deformed workers' state "

Definately Trots, sour loser from Soviet Union.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Even Lenin agreed that the Russian Revolution was more or less a "holding action" against Capital until the real revolution could occur in the industrialized world. He said himself that socialism wasn't supposed to happen in Russia yet; the problem was that to turn down the opportunity to end the sway of Capital in Russia was too good to pass up, and unforgivable to simply let them continue on with their oppression.

 

[Ecofarm]

Does socialism not strive to create a classless society?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I call em like I see em, not like they dream to be. Excuse me for not gulping propaganda sunshine while having my head stuck in the clouds. I support various socialist measures, but I'm not a disciple of any ideology.

Is capitalism not entirely dependent on a structure of privileged haves and dependent have-nots?

No. It's dependant on a the free and informed exchange of goods and labor. It's probably most dependant on eduation to promote an informed consumer and fair regulation to protect against fraud and discrimination.



People should leave the utopian populist bullcrap for the pulpit and look at the world for what it really is. It's pretty amazing when someone eats every last scrap of one set of rhetoric, but looks at the other side with cruel and unusual distain. Tone down the "us and them" just a little bit, jeez. Does half the world really need to be a horrible monster for you to care about anything?? Being so amazingly partisan is really no different than being racist or sexist; at such an extreme it is simple blind bigotry.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's not like racism isn't an every day phenomena even now... Oh right, it is..

And its not exactly restricted to whites. Natural human emotion and you'll never get rid of it. Its a tribal thing- them and us.

 

[Ecofarm]

My tribe is smart people, they come in all shapes and colors. The other tribe uses shapes and colors to define people.

I hope someday you'll join us.

 

[Zardnaar]

Thats great, good for you. I don't care that much one way or the other and I treat everyone as an individual. No special treatment or negative preconceptions. However the rest of the world seems busy killing each other over it.

If you can take a government program and turn it and its racist (ergo some minority help program gets turned into a whites only help program) its also racist. In the cases where you have an underclass that is related to history- Maori in New Zealand or blacks in America the government should help poor people, not based on skin colour. Here low decile (poor) schools get extra funding from the government. I don't mind that at all as schools in richer areas get more money from the community. Since some minority groups are over represented at the bottom they get more money and I'm fine with that. Race based handouts to tribal authorities and the like (which exist here) are wrong and racist in reverse just because some European stole some land 150 odd years ago. I'm part Irish wheres my handout for the potatoe famine in 1840? Why are whites only held to account? Why are Maori tribes not held accountable for inter tribal violence from the early 1800's where some of them massacred and enslaved the others? Same time period and my ancestors weren't even in the country. Its also turned into a rort where the people who need the money the most (poor Maori) miss out and it goes to tribal elders and the like who get new BMWs or whatever. May as well spend the money on the education system or whatever.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

The Potato Famine wasn't man-made. Your logic is laughable.

 

[Zardnaar]

The English made it alot worse. I love left wing double standards.

 

[Cutlass]

And its not exactly restricted to whites. Natural human emotion and you'll never get rid of it. Its a tribal thing- them and us.

So if you admit that it exists, which some right wingers do not, then why do assume people don't have a reason or a right to be upset when they are the victims of it?

 

[Quackers]

Sad thing is racism will never be overcome. The best we can hope for is a small dedicated group of racists scattered across the country occasionaly discriminating against blacks. But now the utopians believe that it can be eradicated and so discriminate against Whites and in favor of minorities which in fact makes the problem worst.

 

[Angst]

Especially syphilis.