Chain capitulations?

[CornPlanter]

I see people using this term, as I understand it means all civs capitulating one after another till you win. The question is, does one capitulation somehow cause/influence the next one etc., as in chain reactions? I'd like to learn more about mechanics if thats the case! Thanks

 

[royal62184]

I don't know the exact calculation, but your power and your vassals power go into the equation and is compared to the threshold for captiulation (different for each civ). SO when you get more vassals (with reasonable power) the capitulations come quicker and quicker. This is a very simplified explanation and experienced it first hand in several games.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Your vassal's power isn't considered, except in ways that make it harder to get capitulation.

They do help by bordering your cap target.

 

[Shurdus]

So the power of your vassals is considered.

I believe that the AI considers your power as follows. It looks at your power, then at the vassals power, averages the combined powers, then looks at the global average power and then at the capitulation threshold. If the difference of your power (averaged with the power of your vassals!) and your cap target's power is larger than the capitulation threshold the target will capitulate.

It is foggy to me how this threshold is determined. Supposedly the threshold is quite a bit lower if the target is a neighbor to your vassel in the sense that it shares at least 8 border tiles with your vassal. If so, the target will more readily capitulate so you can then focus your attention on the very next target that is neigboring your new vassal, etc.

Vassalising an AI fast enough makes it so that the vassal has still much of it's original power left so he will not be as harsh on you - as far as the AI considering your power rating goes - on your power rating.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The AI looks at your power and checks if you are strong enough for them to capitulate. Your vassals are ignored, theirs are not.

Then, the AI checks its power against the average power of all civs. It has to be below this average. Your vassals are counted here, invariably against you. Unless...

Your vassals bordering the target civ affects the capitulation threshold completely irrespective of your vassal's power.

Just to prove my point, I posted a game a while back where I had a vassal, gandhi. Deleting that vassal in worldbuilder would allow capitulation, but while gandhi existed, my target would not capitulate. Technically, the forces brought to bear on the target were REDUCED, but they were more willing to capitulate...and this is why people get confused and/or complain.

 

[royal62184]

My bad sorry for saying wrong information. I thought that the vassals power was counted.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It is but not toward yours, but rather as part of a global average unrelated to you, although if they border the enemy they can still contribute toward capitulation since that applies a multiplier to the capitulation threshold.

Every time I read the posts by DanF5771 I understand it but it's hard to keep at the details straight - suffice to say it's a convoluted system that needs work in a lot of regards.

 

[Gooblah]

Capitulation considers the global average power, who has done the most damage to a Civ, and whether or not an enemy is on the same continent (land target).

Chain capitulation relies on the third consideration; capitulate one Civ with minimal military loss to both sides -> average power remains roughly the same -> DOW on another Civ -> land target rule applies -> capitulation occurs faster -> profit.

 

[Feyaria]

Gifting back cities to your new vasall can help too. They get 2 defenders for free and this raises their power level.

 

[CornPlanter]

Thank you guys for your reply About gifting cities back I first learned I think from Crusher1's game... I still remember how it striked me like "OMG! why I never thought of this?". One of these things you discover only when you think outside the box, respect.

 

[TheDS]

When I give a city to someone, it's because that city will cost me too much and gain me too little, so I give it to someone else. Then it doesn't matter if it's a burden to them or a blessing, they see it the same way irregardless.

I remember a game in which I had only 3 opponents. I built up and built up, and was no more than 2-3 turns from DoWing and cakewalking my neighbor, Tokugawa, and he asks to become my vassal. "Uhhh...... Okay." So I moved my troops into position to attack HIS neighbor, Hatshepsut, built up and built up so it would be a cakewalk, and I'm like 2-3 turns from DoWing, and SHE asks to be a vassal! "Uhhh.... Yeah, I guess that'll work." The third AI player was about as big as my two vassals combined, plus he was the last one, so I figured there was no way he'd capitulate, so I got all my stuff into position around him, captured half his cities on the turn of DoW (didn't wait long to launch this war) and next turn he wanted to capitulate. Not really a chain, but I did have one other where I had like 3 guys come to me one turn after the other, and that was pretty cool. But that's it. Apparently there's a narrow window of wanting to be a vassal, and not everyone will ask you to be a vassal, you have to check with them once in a while.