Challenge #5: Million Dollar Monty

[Tauro]

wow...thx, so all I needed was give them economy

Ok, last attempt, and final for me:

70373

Very risky strat:
1)early warring with Izzy. Taked out in 300 BC with chariots
2)usual GLH + Colossus x GP farm in the same city
3)stonhenge + Oracle (COL and CS lightbulbed, thx sherbchen ) + Pyramids with rapresentation
4) same religion strategy. I've not spammed missionaries
5)REX
6)Two golden ages; in the first I attacked saladin annoyed with me (I was forced...) and I took him two good border cities.
7) Research stopped after corporation, but arrived to scientific method for rapresentation (LOL)
8) 8GM, 2100x7 +1700 in Rome, not in the top five (I was very wrong about the trips )

That's all

 

[cabert]

good run Tauro!

 

[scherbchen]

sheesh first he breaks 60k now 70k. that guy is making us look bad, get him!

i can not get my head around where you got all those units from and still get those wonders

good job, again

 

[Raiser]

Congrats Tauro.

My strats quite different from yours. I'm at the halfway-ish mark and I think I'm going to come in between 60k and 70k.



---

 

[Tauro]

Better spoil it

Spoiler :

Less than ten chariots built in the second city.
I've chanded the settling order and the city placement. Now rice/horses/hoasis are vital for warmongering, more than bronze. Chariots are faster and cheaper, and you have to fight against a very small army.

Et voilà

She had only 3 cities and I attacked when she was sending out one settler scorted by a warrior (first picture)

Teoticauan was working on chariots too, couse I had two border cities totally undefended. When finally I've researched masonry (blocked for CS popping) I prayed for the GLH, and finally it came out with some chopping.

BTW the Pyramids were absolutely unwanted, in all the previous games they were built before 500 BC. In this time I was running out of cash (seven cities in 200 BC or something like that) so I dedided to give a try, realizing them in 11 turns.

 

[Tauro]

Thx Raiser :shy:
What's yout strategy?
75K is affortable, I made that very idiot mistake with the trade routes...I've lost at least 4000g, it happens

 

[scherbchen]

ok i´ll put away that pitchfork and that torch, seeing as i did break 63k just now (borrowing heavily from tauro though, if i can´t get a decent score later on i´ll post that by the end of this week, however i´m determined to make some serious cash peacefully).

also screwed up some things quite badly, especially not saving those GMs till the end

crushing izzy definitely made me feel good this time around

now for some peaceful attempts! have fun all

 

[Tauro]

Congrats!
How about the strat?

 

[scherbchen]

well i tried to get confucianism and basically spread only that, stopping missionary production only for grocers/markets/banks. it probably was a mistake to not take buddhism as it is right there for the taking and run 2 early religions plus missionaries before theocracy sets in, so i´ll have to give this another go.

plan was basically to go for banking and then nationalism and stop reasearching as soon as possible (wall street not an option due to only having 4 cities which is what i got stuck with due to not going to war). early macemen definitely offered a temptation to take some cities but i wanted to do it peace only (probably not a good choice i´m thinking right now). managed for the first time in a lot of tries to get the GLH (running a priest specialist in the capitol basically made the difference, allowed for an earlier research of masonry).

really feel bad about this try as i popped bronze in a mine in the capitol and silver (!) in the second city basically as soon as the mines were worked.

never got a second GM farm up as i grabbed all the wonders i could get my hands on in the capitol (with early beaurocracy plus popped copper and the preset iron) and also constructed national epic there. wasn´t able to run pacifism as i tried to stay off of everyones radar. ~54k, sigh

anybody get more than 4 huts (including the *map* at settling spot)?

but basically i learned a ton about early expansion and about it´s importance in this challenge so far, never really considered a stack of chariots of all things. plus the essential effect of it was something i never really saw. i turned off research maybe about 3-4 centuries earlier than tauro (unless i´m completely off here, i didn´t take notes. will try to better myself in the next runs) but i am nowhere near that number he got with warmongering.

also i just now got the memo on maybe not bullding a couple of universities because right after you get them, you won´t be needing them anymore ^^

cheers

 

[lilnev]

I'm up to 1000 AD. Hard to say how it'll turn out because I expect to make most of my $$$ in the last 3 or 4 centuries, but I feel good about the game so far....

Spoiler :

My plan was to get early macemen, claim a lot a territory, cottage spam like mad, then turn up the gold slider and just sit. Polytheism (founding Hinduism), then mining, pottery, priesthood and start the Oracle. Meanwhile research BW and MC so the Oracle can pop machinery. Back up to writing, alphabet, CoL (founding Confucianism), meditation and the GP points from the Oracle plus a part-time priest gave a great prophet to lightbulb CS. The slowest part was actually hooking up the iron (trading CoL for IW), but I had macemen underway by the first century AD.

I didn't feel the need for a terribly early war (axes or chariots) because I had a reasonable amount of land, and I wanted to give Saladin (the most advanced) time to chop his own jungle. I founded six cities, all on fine spots. There's room for a marginal seventh between my original lands and those of Saladin. Yes, he no longer lives there. He made the poor decision to leave two workers on just-completed dye plantations right on our border, so I relieved him of their services. No actual shooting until I could bring the catapults to bear, but now (1000 AD) four of his cities have fallen, including the capital, versus my grand total losses of one catapult.

My remaining forces should be able to mop up his last three cities with few problems, probably with enough left over to take a juicy bite out of the Romans and/or the French. I'm building a second army to take down Isabella. I'd like to roll over as much land as I can now, while my troops are technologically superior, leaving only weak (or absent) neighbors. Then it'll be workers and more workers, buildings and gold.

I've got paper, and am almost to banking. I'll switch to Mercantilism/Representation (Saladin kindly built the Pyramids for me), then tech to liberalism, PP, economics. And I think that's it. Corporation and Emancipation would be nice, but Nationalism and Constitution are in the way. I'll do some back-of-the-envelope calculations before I actually decide. So far I've avoided a state religion to keep the neighbors happy, and overall I'm not convinced a religious focus is a good one. I think it's all about land area and cottages, cottages, cottages. But I guess we'll find out, eh? Wish me luck....

peace,
lilnev

 

[scherbchen]

that´s an interesting take right there. but wasn´t there an option to grab copper if you managed to found 6 cities without war? i think the 5th spanish city is usually founded by the copper/bananas in the NE.

or was this your first run on this map (if so, kudos... my early game is clearly lacking... but we all knew that already )? missing the early copper certainly threw me off the first couple of attempts.

 

[Raiser]

Thx Raiser
What's yout strategy?

I'll post up a strat when I've completed one run through. It'd be nice to know if it pay dividends before I start banging on about it.

Might complete tomorrow. Hopefully.


---

Anybody get more than 4 huts (including the *map* at settling spot)?

I only found 2 huts. But at least neither where crappy maps.

The hut at your settling spot for the capital, which gave you a map, gave my scout gold. My capital wasn't there (controversial). The second hut gave gold also.


---

I'm building a second army to take down Isabella.

Good luck with that. She's a feisty wench. But it sounds like you've got the troops to spank her.


---

 

[Tauro]

well i tried to get confucianism and basically spread only that, stopping missionary production only for grocers/markets/banks. it probably was a mistake to not take buddhism as it is right there for the taking and run 2 early religions plus missionaries before theocracy sets in, so i´ll have to give this another go.

plan was basically to go for banking and then nationalism and stop reasearching as soon as possible (wall street not an option due to only having 4 cities which is what i got stuck with due to not going to war). early macemen definitely offered a temptation to take some cities but i wanted to do it peace only (probably not a good choice i´m thinking right now). managed for the first time in a lot of tries to get the GLH (running a priest specialist in the capitol basically made the difference, allowed for an earlier research of masonry).

really feel bad about this try as i popped bronze in a mine in the capitol and silver (!) in the second city basically as soon as the mines were worked.

never got a second GM farm up as i grabbed all the wonders i could get my hands on in the capitol (with early beaurocracy plus popped copper and the preset iron) and also constructed national epic there. wasn´t able to run pacifism as i tried to stay off of everyones radar. ~54k, sigh

anybody get more than 4 huts (including the *map* at settling spot)?

but basically i learned a ton about early expansion and about it´s importance in this challenge so far, never really considered a stack of chariots of all things. plus the essential effect of it was something i never really saw. i turned off research maybe about 3-4 centuries earlier than tauro (unless i´m completely off here, i didn´t take notes. will try to better myself in the next runs) but i am nowhere near that number he got with warmongering.

also i just now got the memo on maybe not bullding a couple of universities because right after you get them, you won´t be needing them anymore ^^

cheers

About religion: Buddism is the strong religion ever seen, simply couse you discover early. So if Izzy gets it you won't be able to run pacifism. I made a little test concerning hut goodies maximizing. You gain more gold if you delay Tenoctitlan by one turn, but you skip meditation. It's a forced path

I had Nationalism in the half XIV century, you? Stop teching Later (I remember about 1530). But consider that 20 turns from XIV to XV century means about 330/350 GPT for year for me, equal to about 7000 g. If you discover in 1550 corporation you have (15 turns later?) Wall street. SO in the last 30 turns you gain at least a surplus of 120 from it (3600g), plus another route. 3g for city (average of 10 cities). So 30 x 2 x 45, 2700g. Maybe It's not good. Dunno
And you have also democracy, so you can run emancipation for some turn if you have a cottage economy.
Personally I prefer Burocracy and caste system, with wall street emancipation is a no sense.

About huts: no and I popped often two maps

Anyway 54K is a very good score considering only 4 cities, why can't you attach you save? Just for curiosity

 

[Tauro]

Umh...Lilnev will probably hit 85K
Salad land is powerful compared to Izzy
Very nice idea to grab machinery from the Oracle, I never did it. Did you skipped the rest of the wonders, right?

 

[scherbchen]

oh i´m sorry about not posting a save for the peace only thing. i was just so frustrated with myself for not making more out of those lucky mine-pops (and for not going for buddhism, as already mentioned that was probably the biggest no-no of my attempt and i guess i somehow knew it... i´ll remedy that later)

i got my 1790 autosave, you´ll notice i wasn´t starving populations because at that point -as mentioned- i was really frustrated and did not care about those last pennies. also two GMs (my only ones!) are still waiting in rome.

a well-played peace game (the way i play it, others will make it better i guess) will certainly break 60k, 65 even i think.

founding 6 cities would actually be my peace-only goal. i just don´t see how you can do it! lilnev certainly knows how to so i´ll give this more tries. i really like these challenges where you can basically see where you are going by 500 BC. either you manged to get certain wonders (lilnev did you omit stonehenge?) or you grabbed certain resources or you conquered some land or you founded key religions, etc...

i really like the extension up to 1800 AD for this one though, that puts some key techs into the iffy zone. if i were to get 6+ cities peacefully wall street might become an option! i just wish i had more time for this one this week, but even by now i learned a ton!

nice challenge!

 

[lilnev]

that´s an interesting take right there. but wasn´t there an option to grab copper if you managed to found 6 cities without war? i think the 5th spanish city is usually founded by the copper/bananas in the NE.

or was this your first run on this map (if so, kudos... my early game is clearly lacking... but we all knew that already )? missing the early copper certainly threw me off the first couple of attempts.

Not the first run through. First time I got beat to the Oracle. Teched to IW to figure out where I actually wanted my cities, then rebooted.
I'll try to post a screen shot later this week, but rough city locations (I don't have a map, so from memory):

Spoiler :

Capital SW, just N of oasis. This leaves room for a decent fish/wine/stone city later. 2nd east, on hills by pigs, fish, and rice. Though the rice ended up feeding the third city SE, claiming horse and two gold. Fourth city S by the river, corn and dye. Fifth SW, more pigs and fish. And the sixth was the fish/wine spot in the north. Isabella took the copper along with the northeasternmost gems. I probably could have taken it as my third or fourth site, but Saladin was encroaching, and I didn't feel like I needed copper since I had iron. I was a little worried I'd be attacked before I had my macemen up, but neither Isabella nor Saladin is particularly aggressive if you're religiously neutral.

Very nice idea to grab machinery from the Oracle, I never did it. Did you skipped the rest of the wonders, right?

Yes, the Oracle was my only wonder. It's the first time I've done the Oracle->Machinery thing, too -- an idea I saw on one of these threads. It helped a lot to have floodplains with a financial leader to get through metal casting. Still felt like it took forever, and I don't think it would work on a harder setting.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Tauro]

Spoiler :

I made a quick test of lilnev strategy and I did the same thing for city placement
Unfortunately this time the AI run like hell!!! Izzy founded her 4th city on copper a few turns before me, and salad had his northern cities on my capital border...argh.... I quitted at 50 BC with my 1st and totally useless mace :/

five huts
gold gold map fishing experience
I Know also the seventh location

Tech: Induism mining (fishing popped) priesthood wheel pottery BW AH MC writing COL and so on.

I made a very stupid mistake in the building order.
Anyway I think that the ideal spot for the second city is SW, becouse of the forests.

Tomorrow I'll try the same tech path( except AH) and a different city placement sequence
If you want I can spoil all the huts I know.

Let's break 75K

 

[Putchuco]

You guys are totally on fire!

First $60k, then $70k+, ... wow!


I'm totally humbled mentioning my first attempts:
(the very first were overzealous and totally hosed... )


1) Play a somewhat 'normal' game, go after commerce
(thinking that this is equal research and money)

- went after Hinduism, later also Judaism
- build Stonehenge -> got me some GP
- lost race to Pyraminds, Oracle, Parthenon
(probably because I was trying too much at the same time)
- then just couldn't avoid a war with Isa,
and eventually took most of her land after a long and bloody war.
- stopped research WAY too late


2) Never got around to finish the 2nd, tried 5 strategies at the same time, which seldomly works out... lol


3) Worked out a way to go after ALL religions
... and thought I was a GOD... lol

- Stonehenge built
- missed Pyramids, Oracle and Parthenon AGAIN ...
- did not start ANY war at all and not even Isa sucked me into one until VERY late
- resulting in paying some heavy duties to keep everyone happy,
but, hey, it's not important how well the other Civs do unless they come to take your house...
- did get Chichen Itza, Spiral Mina and with it GP for each religion.
- then I was all happy I would break $30k that I just focused on creating/sending missionaries;
and I did spread my religions like a MAD man, that alone doesn't cut it, learned my lesson
- didn't started a single Golden Age (most probably a BIG mistake)
- neither did I get a single GM, which is probably the other BIG mistake


So, here I have too very different approaches and I must say I learned a lot about the commerce aspects of the game.
Apparently not enough, because I'm a feeble ant looking up a 73.000 ft high mountain...


Anyway, this is a great way of sprucing up the game.
I'm learning great stuff here, and the input is greatly appreciated.

If anyone is interested the entire story of the 1st attempt, have posted it over here:
http://www.f1united.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1043

I will soon post my reflection of the 2nd try.
Feel free to (gently ) comment on my strategies, I'm here to learn.

 

[scherbchen]

nice input on city placement, thanks

 

[Raiser]

Absorbing reading. Thanks for posting, and welcome to the thread to the new arrivals. (Try your hand at the other challenges sometime >>> Here, Here, Here and Here.)


---

Tomorrow I'll try the same tech path (except AH) and a different city placement sequence
If you want I can spoil all the huts I know.

Let's break 75K

A spoiler to the hut positions would be appreciated here, but the rate I'm going I'll be lucky to get time to make a second attempt. (I still think two weekends is a good deadline though. Keeps things fresh.)

I'm constantly impressed by the speed at which you play, Tauro. Repeated iterations gives you a real advantage in these challenges. My 3rd attempt at 'Let's get Cultural' was soooo much easier than my first two.

Yeah, I think 75k may be doable. Although it's quite hard work.


---