Deity Cathrine Challenge!

Whats your involvement status in this challenge?

  • Want to play the map and port my result!

    Votes: 6 35.3%
  • Want to play the map and se what others do

    Votes: 5 29.4%
  • Just want to follow the thread and see what players do.

    Votes: 9 52.9%

  • Total voters
Finished the map.

Victory T217 (1535AD), better is definitely possible but im satisfied
Spoiler :

Now, I can take a look your save @chinemol and see what's going on
Spoiler :

WOW big monster hatshepsut, never expected that. She was weak on my map. I think if you use IMP and expand fast you can block her off by 1400bc and stop her from settling on your island. I was a tad late and did it at 1000bc, but she landed an archer and settler already on my island at 1080bc which

wait for it

died to all the barbs orbitting my great wall LOL and she never got the city down!!!

On a serious note, you definitely need to claim your island before they get there and start putting cities on it. that's a nono. She has to die even if she gets big. Cannons are awesome on this map, definitely a good choice. I went early steel at 900ad or something and attacked her at 1000ad; people barely had paper and philosophy by then. Failgold was super key on this map with the marble and stone. I even missed the mids by 1 turn but it worked out giving me an early currency date to kick start my economy with those juicy 3C trade routes. I chose to completely ignore the caveman continent, they were irrelevant and didn't even get paper until 1400ad XD just having their own side show while i bullied them with privateers the entire game XD

With mids + great library + NE you should have super research and great person pumpage, im scrolling through your tech history now to see what went wrong.
Your lib date is very impressive since you said you aren't comfortable on deity, 1 turn after my lib date. I also libbed astronomy because attacking hatty would cut off all trade routes without astro. Looks like you hard teched engineering instead of trading for it and took a long time to get cannons. with taj mausoleum golden ages I was zooming through the tech, 1 turned printing press with a bulb, built oxford super fast with forges + OR + stone and size 16 capital; and then cruised to steel at 800bpt by about 950ad.

Now, what to do about your situation? I think it's very winnable, they're not even teching that fast - only 1 person has infantry at 1600ad. Trade with your vassals to catch up, send one to biology or something and then bee line tanks. Hatshepsut looks big and scary but you could form up on your new island and go smash mao and isabella with tanks. Tanks roll over everything until gunships and modern armor. Mechs aren't even an issue if you just bring artillery. You should see my immortal toku NTT isolation where I took down this monsterous china and his 2 vassals with tanks. Your econ should rapidly improve when you get that land online. I'm shocked you didn't settle on the stone, seems super strong to me, the cow is really helpful to build stuff.
Spoiler T52 - T66 :

Picking up the game again. And nice! Rostov have TR!

Why am I stressing this so much? Its because of or dire early commerce. It will be no problem after writing/mids.. but before that commerce is a big problem. So 3-4 extra commerce early will help us achieve our firstgoal of establishing somewhat of a empire with teching abilities. In a similar fashion as one would build some early game cottages. I would now trade away alot of early advantage for later greatness (like the risk of loosing fish earlier etc.)

Other than that nothing much have changed. But I'm getting worried about loosing the mids. But so far only SH and TGW have been built and those came late.. so maybe we have time..
T53 - the last of us (from warriors POV) is attacking.. (are we the bad ones?).. We have all but 1 tile fog busted on our island.

Hatty btw is only on archers.. not that I would attack her.. but hm... HA is not that far away with mids...

T55 - The last barb went hard.. at 96,7 % odds of loosing! If he would win he would be king.. if he would die he would die doing what he loved.

Then its about moving our warrior 1NE and our island is secure! :D We killed 4 archers and 1 warrior.. and we lost 3 warriors (45 hammers). I would say that's a ok way to deal with barbs. It al goes back btw to the scout fog busting. She alone probably prevented 1-2 additional archer from spawning.
T56: putting 1 turn of worker overflow into mids 34H = 68 Fail gold. Just because cap is potentially whiping or building settler that turn.

Hatty picked up Iron or bronze.. she got spears.. so probably bronze.
T57.. really worried about mids now. With settler whip its due in due in 3 turns. without its due in 4 turns.. so hm.. t60 or t61..Ill probably do t60.. its also important to get our cities with libraries up fast.

T58 - I can se hattys research.. she 1 turn away from IW. I can still postpond the settler whip 1 turn.. maybe the 2 last chops is enough. have 10H production for 2 turns.. its actually exact. So yeah no settler whip just jet.
So that will give me better commerce! ref my earlier point. now Writing will be done 2-3 turns earlier because i could save the whip.

T59 - its one the hammer! Just perfect.
T60 - big turn!

Got mids! and 68 Failgold.. which means I can get writing in 4 turns!
A prophet is born.. that is probably hatty (because of her unique building and SH). If shes not founding a religion or stars a Golden age it means one of her cities will have a fat juicy settlede GP.

Switching into rep right now. It will actually (with running citizens help me get writing in 3 turns.

T62 whip the settler in cap. Will "save" the hammers next turn and not build anything. so i can dump al the overflow into a library. Will do similar thing in St. peters. Need my libraries fast. Then we will evaluate.

T63 - Cap can now produce a library in 1 turn next turn. and St peter will be 4-5 turns away. You can halt production for 1 turn by. selecting the city from the overview and press 1. (said you have not bindet a production queue (what a stupid English word.. you say que and its spelled queue...!) to that key.

T64 a beauty

Saving gold for when my libraries is online! Will probably go fishing sailing. will wait to open boarders with hatty until we have sailing. Dont want to share our juicy trade routs whiteout getting something in return. She is 4 turns away from sailing herself. Its going to be intresting watching her research spike when we get OB. Its also very important to figure out whats the rest of the world is up to. BTW.. no golden age or religion.. so she probably settled.

T65- ups noticing some small micro mistakes. could probably have grown my cap 1 turn earlier and finished the library in st.peter 1 turn earlier. But stuff like that is bound to happen and if my research is on 0 % anyways its not that big of a deal.

2-pop whip library in Novgorod. That is where I'm going to get my first GS. Will grow to size 3 and run 2 GS as soon as possible. Saving overflow in Nov for WBs.. going to need 2 (actually 4) of them fast.
2 for scouting and the others for food. Will start fishing next turn.. its probably going to be 2 turns. @100 % now we are getting 26 beakers with - 18
That number will rise fast the next couple of turns.. first with more and more cities running GS then with OB and sailing. then with meeting more players etc.


T67 - 2 libraries finished and running 4 rep GS. Doing 51 beakers @ -26 gold. Fishing in 1 turn :o
I am not running GS in cap btw.. waiting to grow in size and I probably want a GS as my 1 guy.

Taking a break for now.
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T66 - T85
Spoiler :

T66 - city planning and a general outlook about prioritization.

With mids and libraries my tech plan is mostly secure. Now I will go into more of explore and scale up my empire. Before I decide of how to try to win the game.

All my cities except 1 is coastal so I would grab GLH if available (very slim chance). Still need 6-7 settlers for my island. we have marble so maybe TGlib is possible. Early currency also is big on my list.
Think now its a toss up between more cities and bigger cities. Granaries is key to get up.. probably more than more cities.. But I guess I will go a bit for both.

T69 - TGL got built by a unknown civ... hehe so thats one option of my plate. Sailing is due in 1 turn. just as my WB is ready for scouting.

T70 OB with hatty.. instantly 10 extra commerce! great! Finished settler in st.peter going for another probably.. going to grab pig copper marble spot first.. to open up possibilitets.. also i have workers that need work.
Trying my best to grow in 1-2 turns if possible and working as many GS as possible. going to grab TW-pottery @ 0 % tech. doing 52 beakers. When pottery is in i will whip granaries and then grow for a while.
T73 - Washington! :D no wonders.. and he is in judeaism.. which he did not found! That means its at least 1 more guy.. probably 2. he also has alpha!

T78.. just growing and getting graneries.. Will grow to max size and then produce settlers etc. going for Aesthetics.. its good trade bait and maybe im getting GLib. Cottaging what i have of river tiles.. but this wil be ha hybrid economy of GP and cottages. Probably want currency fast also. hatty is big on 10 cities.. but slow teching.. she is going for math (3). I hope i can get it from her when i secure alpha in maybe 5 turns.

T79 have 23 pop.2nd place in GNP Wow!. This is going to be fun! Aesth is bound in 3 turns.. maybe 2.

T80 washington have math! so the math trade with hatty seems possible. No Happy resources for trade yet.
With 126 value I'm GNP rank 1! Thats amazing.. but remember im creative with 6 cities so 12 of that is "empty" culture. But still beeing rank 1 @turn 80 is amazing. Rank 7 in production tho :p But that will improve.

T82 Hatty goes for buddism! Definitly 2 more guys on her continent. maybe even 3. Going for alpha "and a bit" to hopefully get washy to pleased so i can trade elphants.

T83.. damn just a little to low. he gained only 1 point. and he had a -1 native with us.

T84 Isabella! she is the buddist founder. Trade alpha for math and myst. Should probably not do myst.. but have so small trading that it seems ok. Also get dyes from Isabell! GS is born. do not know what to do with him.. probably academy in cap. with math and alpha im temted to go for currency! Migth pick up gold from trades and 1 extra Intercontinental trade route seems awesome!

T85. Thebes got a Great propeth. .thats probably form SH.. Isabell also have a shrine so the earlier profphet was hers.

T86. Isabell was going for alpha.. so i gave it to her for poly.. got her to pleased! Debating if i should settle the GS in cap for 11,25 beakers and a hammer or get academy.. academy is currently bringing in 6 beakers with 0 % and 16,5 with 100 %

Think I will stop on that note. What do you guys think? Settle GS or academy?

Some pics of the empire.. need 4-5 more cities. Thinking about Glib in Yaroslavl Crazy food and ok production.


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@Henrik75 wow you play fast, Impressive! Congrats on Win! Looking forward to check out your game! when I have no more relevant spoiling left to discover :)
Spoiler to turn 100 :

Settled city #4 on T59 on the west edge of our continent, with the pigs+fish. Tech continued wheel --> pottery --> writing (T77) --> sailing (T82) --> math (T88) --> currency (T94).
City #5 went for eastern pigs+fish on T77.
City #6 went for the flood plains+wine on T85.
City #7 went for the southeastern horse on T95.
City #8 for northwestern crabs on T99.
City #9 went for pigs+copper+marble on T100.
On T94 I traded currency for alphabet to Isabella.
Then teched Aesthetics (T98) --> Mysticism (T99) --> Polytheism (T100). Going for Literature next.

Got open borders with Hatshepsut and then met Washington on T73. Can see from espionage screen that at least he also knows one other AI. Met Isabella T91, but I could see there is still at least one more AI that Washington has contact with. Then met Mao T94, and it looks like that is everyone I can meet before Optics.

Got first great scientist on T96.

Thinking what is the best thing to do with great scientists. I wouldn't do an academy here, since research is distributed fairly evenly among cities. The path to Steel would be Feudalism --> Machinery --> Engineering --> Guilds --> Gunpowder --> Chem --> Steel. You can double-bulb chemistry if you avoid Meditation and Paper. You can also double-bulb astronomy if you further avoid Civil Service and Theology. Bulbing both Astronomy + Chemistry would be pretty cool for an early cannons attack date. Can also try to Lib something on the way to cannons, but that's less reliable. At least Hatshepsut may go for Lib quite early.

So I am leaning towards trying to at least single-bulb both Chem & Astronomy, then take someone out with cannons. With marble accessible & good national epic candidates (capitol or the western fish+rice+pigs city) it shouldn't be hard to get a lot of great people.

With forges + police state, a trebuchet costs 54 raw hammers, so a city with 18 natural hammers can 3-turn a trebuchet (27 natural hammers to 2-turn a treb), which is easily doable with chemistry + caste system workshops.




  • Catherine_BC-0375.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Spoiler :
thanks so much. I've seen it, great channel! thing is I'm not comfortable on inmortal, let alone deity. first time settled on stone, but couldn't handle it. main problem other than barbs was commerce, so the second time went "inland" and next to a river to hook up the second one (copper) easily, gonna take a cooldown, rewatch that video and come back. thanks once again
Spoiler to turn 142 :

Teched Literature (T102) --> Priesthood (T103) --> Metal Casting (T107) --> Machinery (T114) --> Feudalism (T119) --> Guilds (T125) --> Gunpowder (T131) --> Optics (T135) --> 2x Bulb Astro (T135) --> Drama (T137) --> Engineering (T142) --> 2x bulb Chemistry (T142)

T107 traded Metal Casting for Construction to Hatshepsut.
T111 traded Aesthetics for Monarchy to Isabella.
T113 got The Great Library.
T117 traded Machinery for Iron Working to Hatshepsut.
T119 traded Aesthetics for Feudalism to Mao.
T125 traded Guilds for Calendar+CoL+230 gold from Hatshepsut.
T130 got Compass for trade from Washington.
T135 get Civil Service from Isabella.
T139 meet Ragnar, who is only at 4 cities.
T140 meet Boudica, who is at 9 cities but far behind in tech.
T142 finally trade for Engineering with Washington, but only after teching most of it myself.

In hindsight I made a few weak settling decisions. I also got lucky with a great scientist out of Moscow (instead of a great engineer), so I could double bulb both Astronomy and Chemistry. Then I will try to get merchants from National Epic city for upgrading trebs to cannons.

Still need to self-tech Steel, while building up an army. I am about to get my fifth great person from Moscow, which I plan to use for golden age to switch into police state, vassalage and caste system. Transition to workshop economy is almost complete.

Probably will take out Hatshepsut first, who is geographically closest, still 5 techs away from Rifling, and is the largest AI at 12 cities so looks like the biggest threat at the moment. Washington will not do anything unless he becomes Friendly with her.




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Henrik Playthrough full summary

turn 1 - 217
Spoiler :

So I already posted first 85 turns but a quick recap, I built great wall, missed pyramids by 1 turn (Grrr) but the failgold wasn't entirely useless, got us all the way to alphabet and currency and I made sure to run scientists in a different city so I wouldn't accidently pop a spy (want the academy FIRST!)
cathy t85.JPG

I used the scientist for an academy, I was hesitant at first because it looks like a piece of crap with 2 fresh cottages. But we got it together in just 40 turns. We also built the great library and mausoleum, and snagged like 1000 failgold throughout our busy cities

After the initial currency beeline, the tech path went like this:
trade for monarchy & math & poly and monotheism
trade monarchy monotheism and polytheism for calendar
self tech aesthetics literature build great library and mausoleum hastily
tech code of laws into civil service just before 1ad! still reaching my personal 1ad CS benchmark :)
Could have gone music in hindsight but the capital was size 13 or something, delaying civil service didn't feel good. we also have several wonders and an early national epic so no shortage of great people
After civil service I went metal casting, philosophy and compass, got a few small trades and some money out of those and forges + organized religion + harbors helped improve happiness, health and build a very strong economic backbone to prepare for the worst.
turn 125 snap shot, as you can see we cottaged the living daylights out of our capital and some key spots. already at 300 bpt!

As you can see we started going for nationalism, because Taj empowered by mausoleum is too good to ignore. And with this land we have no production issues. Not only does it help us, it also denies the other AI.
We start a mega 37 turn golden age using great people pumped by great library, rostov who had points from building mausoleum and running dudes, and the taj completing. This golden age gets us from pre-renaissence all the way to our attack.

Before that, our second great person was a great spy so guess what I did:

4 techs from one great person! espionage is balanced hahahaha.

After nationalism I did very little trading; I traded philosophy for machinery and some outdated stuff like CoL MC Lit for feudalism, and philo + optics for engineering with izzy who was friendly and gave me it early. I was 1 turn off finishing Notre Dame!! Self teched optics to open up the lib astronomy route incase I couldn't get lib steel which was my target.

Sadly Mao was a bastard and got his econ together fast and was about to win lib at 700ad
mao moment.JPG

So I ended up libbing astronomy which is fine, never a bad thing to take.
With the early education and long long long golden age with size 12+ cities, we cranked out all the universities in 5 turns or something then immediately started on Oxford in 6!

Right. Before lib, we bulbed printing press with an extra dude and only had to put 1 turn into it to finish it, for another 50 bpt. seems good

We frowned at Moscow at t85, but NOW look at!!!
760ad moscow.JPG

OK I lied, steel was 1000ad, not that early but still respectable. Also notice my 900 bpt for the small amount of effort put in setting us up to get to communism and rifling very quickly.

Few turns later we rocked up next to thebes, yes I attacked over a river to save 2 turns getting to the next cities for a short and painless capitulation so I can move on faster. Took a total of 1 loss with the cannons.
thebes attack.JPG

Look at that power ratio beside her name, she stands no chance. She crumbled after I took 3 core cities and that was that. With my well developed cities, wonder whoring and high population, I actually had a good score for once!!! which allowed for an easier time capitulating these guys. Hatty was almost at grenadiers but was shut out of trades because everyone hated her so she had to self tech everything slowly while dying. She researches engineering while I research steel :)))

After Hatty it was straight to Big Wash. His tech rate was way slower than hatty's but he had a TON of units, I was lowkey very impressed at the amount of medieval troops he was able to stuff into his cities while cannons tore him apart. Note I still didn't have Rifling until the very end of the war with Big Wash. I went for communism first and started a 4th golden age with my mausoleum :) and state property because the overseas maintenance was about to get absurd.

Izzy was in big danger of peace vassaling to Mao as he'd already attacked her once and taken a city off her, he was 12 cities she was 6. When I attacked izzy, I didn't kill a single unit or take a single city the first 2 turns. Then, on the third turn, I took 2 cities and wiped out her army all with ZERO losses (I had rifles so ye) - she immediately capitulated before getting the chance to peace vassal, so that was clean!

One guy left: Mao! I got my cossacks before attacking him because he did some weird cannon grenadier steam power bee line ??? then queued up corporation then combustion ???????? skipping rifling, cuirs and infantry. He got brutally crushed and I took almost all of his land to push myself over domination limit so I wouldn't have to go bother the caveman continent who still didn't have education or nationalism by the time the game was won.

Ragnar my man, built both great lighthouse and pyramids this game, but went into mercantalism the whole game and didn't get paper until 1400ad.... :hammer2:PS you can see some vision around Boudica's territory in the last image, that's me bullying her with 4 privateers from 900ad to 1500ad

Victory screen pic is posted somewhere above, I'm at 10 attachments limit.
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Spoiler T85 - T100 :

Ok, the GS.. i choose none of the above.. in a GPP economy pasifism is such great value. There is also no religion spread to my cities so far. And I do think it will be slow. Confu has not been founded either. So.. going currency -> CoL (need buddism pristhood aswell) we can maybe get 2 religion but definitly 1. with a free missionairy. That means we probably will have autospread to one or 2 of our cities.. And will be sufficient for what I'm trying to do (mass bulbilng, Great trades etc.)

Currency will also be amazing in this situation. Think its worth delaying Glib even. Hoping to grab music and the GA.. CoL will also give cast that can be great after we have our settlers up and granaries down.

So with that in mind.. no settle or academy, and keep going as fast as possible to something crazy!

T86 one of our scouting WB died to barb gallies! Its crucial that we meet every AI.. to correctly asses the situation. Preparing a whip/chop

BTW look at this crazyness.. that is from SH.. stealing a tile 4 tiles away from cap.. from a creativ leader with early library with the 3 ring boarder pop. At least she improved the tile for me :) Eventually I think we will get it back.

T88 Meet Mao - The founder of Judaism and the builder of TGL.. should probably hold off from opening borders with him.
T89 - 34 pop. Seems like Mao is going for Aes.. will trade it away soon.
T90 - can get currency next turn! Going to be a nice boost. Also seems like can hold of Aes trade for 1 turn.. and get mop up potential gold from aes trade :)
T91 - no one have any gold.. still holding aes trade. going for literature next. I'm also desperate for more workers...
T94 - Mao demands Aes from us.. I give in for pleased! selftech pristhood T93. Think i grab CoL before lit because i dont have marble online just jet. Get IW and 30 gold from hatty for AES. Hopefully she builds some wonders for us :) Do a lazy turn into monarchy hopefully we can trade Aes with isabell. and we settled on 2 sources of iron!
T95 - Confu gets founded by mao.. so probably going to bea dead religion.. thats actually good for me.. would prefere to pick up either buddism or jud than self found and spread a religion. Tao will be a ok thing if we must, but would prefer other religions. Hatshpsu goes for lit! Want to beat her and get music.. but non of those are a must rigth now. Growing cap hard. up to healt cap and size 12.
T97 - running 9 Rep GS. Have 10 cities and will stop at 11. Soon nessisary infrastructure is up and we will go cast/Pasi and golden age. Capitol is 61%/39% for a GE og GS. wondering if we get GE to build MoM... but hm.. no dont need it.

G98 - A general is born in a unknown place.. so the last 2 AI is fighting!! Big news! I think we have a lock on music and philo.. marble us up.. starting Glib. 1 turn before Hatty finishes tech.. Build time is about 6 turns. hopefully it will be enough. But not a nessesity.. the Failgold will be nice aswell.
T100 - Cancled OB with mao.. with GLH he cant have oure juicy trade routes. Preparing a galley/scout whip.. need to know whats going on. and find the last to AI's

Empire overview! Doing 219 beakers.. 10 cities.. 7 granaries.. 1 more city and we have set up shop.


Going to be a great game! nr. 1 in GNP (the most important one at the current time. and good on happiness and health.. so that means we relatively can get bigger and scarier than most Ais!

Have a plan for the next phase.. will talk about it next post :) But.. what would you do?
Update: I will actually redo this part! more about it in my spoiler comment.

Spoiler T100 - T131 :

Update: I will actually redo this part! I played when unfocused and just missed a lot of important things.
1. starting of unit production (was just to flick in HRB or Construction to be able to produce units in preperation for the timing.)

2. GE on MoM would been a net gain of 8 (even be able to start a 3rd Golden age or even 20 turns of golden age.) That would easily have give me back my used GE for another bulb or golden age. If i put MoM in cap i migth even get the cap GPP faster. The GE would also save me 225 production and a couple of chops that we could put into workers. We are actually struggling for production.
3. Scouting.. the lack of scouting and getting optics. There is a huge advantage to meet the other players faster. Should
definitely recognized the situation earlier.
4. Bad trading of techs.. suddenly "everyone" was advanced.. probably one of my biggest mistakes and struggle on deity.
5. Minor and dumb micro mistakes.. that cost me a population here and there..

In the end just a huge waste of a cool opportunitet with this game.

Not sure about how to win just yet.. its looking like a good curri timing.. and cavalry is also within reach rather quick.
No asto is needed for a invasion of "the others". Maybe go Wash-> hatty.. Wash first to establish base and reduce the need for galleys and a awkward start to the fight.

Music is in the bag within 3 turns.. hatty is going for Calendar so she is not a contender. We did get a GE.. 12 city hatty buildt the HG last turn..

T101 - damn .. the OB cancle with mao stoped my scouting WB.. big mistake... definintly need the gally scout out fast.
T103 - can 2 pop whip Glib.. hm but i dont think its necessary.. on the other hand.. why not! we instantly regrow 1 pop and we can get NE faster.
T104 - i can actually trade for Calendar.. and no one have started MoM...! Hm.. 12 turn golden ages.. that seems awesome in this position.. the potential fail gold will also be nice
T105 - i pick up calendar.. and will slowbuild MoM.. dont need 12 turn golden ages that bad. Btw absolutly no religion spread to our cities.. so going for CoL (2 turns) and bulb of philo. Soon done with all granaries.. will slowbuild lighthouses. The granaries are must have tho. Hatty is going for Theology! maybe she will found her own religion! :D
T107 - CoL and philo bulb. Taoism gets founded. Spreding to cap first.. then get it to Glib city. actually no. Glib city first.. need some missionaries.. and will whip them fast.
T108 isabell demands currency from us.. hm big demand. she is 9 cities. Hm a war with her is going to be bad so i will give in. we got +4 relations and 1+ tribute.. so she is comming around.. maybe she will tolerate us being in tao for a couple turns. and ofc.. the turn after taoism.. we get buddism spread in cap.. just so dumb. we get a free tao spread in st.peter so thats something.

Starting to really want MoM now.. think we are about 8 turns away (with big 5 pop whip).
T112 - I will whip when I can. Rigth now it requires 11 pop.. I think it goes down with 1 pop pr. turn. So about 6 turns left. maybe less..

T113 - it actually went down with 3 pop.. now its only a 8 pop whip!.
T116 - lost Mom by 2 turns to isabell.. thats ok :) Failgold is nice.. and we dont need that long of a golden age.. thinking about starting 2.. one from GA.. then engineer the Taj. and get a 3 one.. when we eventually capture the MoM. Also think i have done something stupid in closing boarders with Mao.. he do not want to open them again and our scout have met a dead end. There is also a big thing of conserving the population.. for a GM. thats 5 pop we now can use for GM.. so its actually kind of good.


Also done with all my granaries.. so next is Golden age and alot of civic changes.. have taoism in 6 cities. and a missionary on its way. Think i will start goldenage next turn.

Hm.. think Im going for Nationalism.. maybe I will try to build Taj.. But really starting to get to the point where you.. do more than you need and delay the attack.. Maybe just engineer it is better.. and then use next two guys for golden age.
Think i want.. 2 GS (bulbing) and 2 GM (money) and i guess i manage to get some random Great people aswelll from my 17 turn golden age. Think i will hold of 2-3 more turns before i start golden age.
T120 - Golden age start - 11 cities 74 pop.

After.. about 25 increase in beakers and 70 reduction of gold lost pr turn. Great!

T124 insta build TAJ.. putting som failgold into TAJ in other cities. Getting paper in 1 turn.
T125 1 builb into edu. Got my first GM.
T126 got map from Mao.. and he has closed borders with Isabell. He have basically no Value from TGL.. haha! And no AI behind him.. so the closing of OB was not a mistake. Also got map from Hatty.. its only us 4.. and we know from earilier that the other continent is figthing. a GG was born 4 turns ago. Grabbing compass and some gold with music trade from hatty.. not a problem if she builds sixtin
T127 get 1300 from hatty cap.. and 1700 from a inland wash city! Hoping to get music + compas for machinery next turn. Just need to hold of for 1 turn to not block lib bulb with GS.
T128 I'm way behind on production.. maybe cavalry is better.. will se how easy we can take washington. 1900 from was h cap! Now i just need alot.. of units! Can maybe get 2-3 pr. turn. Still 8 turns left og golden age.. think i will build and tech towards cav. Maybe we pick up a random GS and can bulb PP. Damn.. traded for machinery to early and now i cant bulb lib. well ok.. seems like cav is better timed anyway. Also.. grabbing optics and building a trirem. Putting washington into cast and getting construction from him. Need to start producing elephatns.
T131.. Hm kind of "doing alot of different things.. need a break to se what to do.


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@Simple Machine I have seen your 100 t post.

Spoiler comment :
Interesting to see your more innovative bulb patch! I also waited with academy for same reasons as you did. Bulb is much better.. here
I think i go for curri/cav.. Going to be really interesting comparing our games.

I also like some of your city placements.. some of them like Yekaterinburg. and maybe Novgorod are better than mine.. Both are closer to cap and have better long term possibilites.
Vladivostok looks misplaced tho.. especially when you have Rostov out of range from the copper.
Spoiler to turn 170 :

Tech path continued Meditation (T154)

T145 started a golden age, first switching into Bureaucracy and Caste System for 5 turns to get more teching power towards cannons.
T150 switched to Police State + Vassalage to get the army out.
T152 get Banking for trade from Isabella.
T153 get Music for trade from Isabella.
T154 get Paper from Washington.
T157 (940 AD) finish teching Steel and upgrade 20 trebs to cannons

Just to show how with Police State, a hammer economy is quite powerful - I can easily 2-turn trebuchets on repeat in almost all my major cities, while still pumping great people out of national epic city. (Granted I am in a golden age in these screenshots, but even without a golden age the production is still very strong.) Only drawback is that there is no more natural commerce anymore from cottages.





T158 I'm about ready to declare on Hatshepsut. Washington was friendly with her by this point, so I bribed Isabella on him for a distraction. Washington then bribed Hatshepsut on Isabella the very next turn (with Astronomy it looks like). Then Mao got bribed on Hatshepsut the turn after that. So that worked out very conveniently.
T158 also traded for Horseback Riding with Boudica to get some knights for anti-grenadier support.

Declared on Hatshepsut T163 (1030 AD). I lose one cannon at 99.3% odds and take Thebes T164.
T164 get Printing Press for trade from Washington.

Still slogging through Hatshepsut, but she is hurting and fighting a two-front war. Should be able to take her.


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Spoiler Empire snapshot :


Spoiler Writeup :

Tech path: Agri - AH - The Wheel - Bronze Working (T43), then Fishing, Pottery (around T60), Writing (T72), Alpha (T89), Currency (T97). Got Sailing and Monarchy in trades, could also get Math, Poly and IW as I complete trades this turn.

Cities: turn 31 (horses/pigs), 43 (western pigs/rice/clam), 55 (eastern fish/share pigs), 62 (southern clams / share pigs / connect coast), 68 (western fish / share pigs / copper) and 72 (flood plains / wine). Now that I have Currency settling the three remaining spots (NW crab, NE horse-wine, and taking pigs-marble from the barbs) should be considered. The AI have a few good luxuries I could get for those extra wine in particular.

Early game (pre T50) priorities were to connect the horses for barb defense, and then settle the southwest spot to block Hatshepsut. Notice how the 4th ring of Thebes still took my 2nd ring clams. Unfortunately her capital is already closing on 1000 culture with 4 wonders (Great Wall, Great Lighthouse, Colossus and Oracle). Great target for future conquest though.

In the rush to clear / settle the island I neglected the potential of Pyramids, and otherwise did not manage happiness very carefully (should have whipped less and chopped more since I had worker turns to spare). I couldn't work my non-commerce food tiles most of the time. Things are looking much better post-Alphabet, building research gave me fast Currency and good trades. Got one Great Scientist a few turns before 100 which I'm saving for a bulb.

Future plans: Washington can already research Music so I'm not sure that race is winnable, in which case maybe Code of Laws into Civil Service has more upside. Could get a pretty early CS (probably around T115), but I'd have to wait closer to T120 for a 2nd great scientist, in order to both bulb Philo and trigger a Golden Age for the mega civic switch and hopefully generate at least 2 more GS. Not sure if Cuirs or Cannons is better here.... Cuirs are faster but will take a lot of losses from the massive cultural defense % AIs like Hatshepsut are sure to have. Technically I can wait to decide if I go for Cannons via the Education bulb line rather than the Feud-Guilds line. The Edu line is a bit more expensive but with a much better trading potential to ensure we get the techs leading to Engineering. Goal then is Lib-Steel or if pressed Lib-Chem.

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Spoiler Redo: T100 - T135 :

Ok, what a difference! All the small things add up and the game is in a completely different position.
MoM in the Thebes bordercity so i could claim pearls earlier and get some more GPP points. 12 turn golden age to set things up.
TAJ is ready whenever we want. Edu is 3 turns away. Have meet the others who are in the stone age and war.

I have a theory that the AI really adjusts hard to what you do as a player. So when you start to trade stuff, meet them they really behave a lot different and better.So its interesting to see how things will change.

Going Whip out oxford in cap. Bulb PP, Astro, and try to do a strong lib.

And cavalry stomp everyone.. Going to take Thebes first because.. can load of some units and set up base easier.. She also has favorable land and is more of a threat.


Won domination @ 1400 AD, Turn 200. score 425597 with a big redo from turn 100. So I would DQ myself :p But it was fun to finish the map correctly

Spoiler Short summary :

Ton of food, settle on stone got mids.
When the basic was secured it was just scale.

Big differense with MoM and i really am a MoM enjoyer. It was just a big miss not understanding that the first time. With 11 cities.. and a big chance for Taj it should have been a no brainer.
My thinking at the time was that I could get to curri timing just a bit quickier with some potential fail gold. It was flawed logic.. because the extra 8 turns of GA would easily have made up for what i was to gain from skipping MoM in both production and money.
Instead of curri the more correct thing was to go for cav. Just because of the need to scale up enough production get enough GM and other GP. CAV push just fit together better with the situation and attacking with cav 20 turns later is much better. Huge difference in my to versions of turn 100 and onwards.

Strange thing is that they all started to plot in my redo map. The turn before I was to attack Washington he attack me. With 4 galleys.! So no relation hit. and we could just mop him up.
Hatty was super scary for a long time.. used 20 turns to take her down.. even tho she was at war with Isabell.
Isabell got rifling the turn after i attacked her.
Mao was a pushower
Budica was naval-logistic. She and Ragnar was locked in a war the entire game.
Ragnar with 4 cities was so small that couldn't take him out.

Anyways really fun game! Really liked to *deity* it out with you guys!
Might post another deity challenge another time :)


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Spoiler to turn 193 (1330 AD) :

Capped Hatshepsut T183. She was a tough cookie after having beelined grenadiers, but pinch knights were able to keep things under control.

T188 declared on Washington, who just barely didn't have Rifling or Military Science yet. Capped him T191.

Trading my way towards either Railroad or Assembly Line. I have two great people waiting to start a golden age so I can switch back into Rep (and Free Religion). I spent the last several turns building observatories and universities in all my major cities --> each scientist is worth 11.1 beakers then. I can stop running the workshops to hire around 60 scientists empire-wide, which should let me get to Railroad in a reasonable time. I can then try to trade for Communism & Biology and then go for either Assembly Line or just Artillery.

Mao and Isabella both have pretty good-sized armies:


I will want at least Machine Guns to take them smoothly. I doubt I can get as good a finish date as Henrik, but this should be in the bag; just a question of how fast I can get to domination or conquest.


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Thanks yeah Cavs was fun! With the higher withdraw chance they do survive a bit more often. Also getting faster 3rd promotion helps alot with 15 strength. With the russian unit you also want the ai to build curri.
For me the takeaway from this game is that 9+ cities mids, TGLib, MoM makes for a awesome cav timing. And a pretty bad curri timing.. because of the lack of production (units and GM). Youn want prod/research/ai techpace to align to get a strong push.

It all depends of situation and overall techpace of course but.. maybe a tighter empire (se alot of better city placemants in the other games) with 7 cities would be better for a curri push. So it is important to recognize early what to aim for.

For me is the canonpush a more exotic play! Hope to master it someday 😀
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So it happens Christmas is busy business. I finally took the time to play the first 50 turns (49, actually).
This is what I did so far :
Spoiler :
This is the initial turn 11 scout that I played last week. I then had a whole lot of time to ponder what to do :

I went a little north and then circled back to the SW, checking on the coast thoroughly. That allowed me to quickly cast the 3 red settling spots, all have at least double food.
The scout has just landed on what will be its fogbusting spot.
Of course I met Hatshepsut... who is not isolated... and that raises questions... and this is why I stopped.

The GLH is obv. veeeryyy appealing.
Moscow is a powerhouse with 3 6-yield tiles.
The settling prospects are numerous and rather far away.
The tech path, so far, has been Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry.

Those are the starting points of my reflexion.
The first question to answer is : can we go straight into Sailing, Bronze and Masonry, now ?
And... I believe the answer is "no". We have too much production (esp being IMP) and too little commerce for that. A quick glance reveals that Moscow produces up to 21 H/t towards a settler at size 4 (!), working all three improved specials and the oasis.

So, what about the Pyramids, then ?
There are no luxury resources in sight and the desired city spots are so food-rich that the happy boost from Representation may well be better than the GLH bonus. Add to that we have the CRE discount on Libraries and the Mids also start to look veeeryyy appealing.
Therefore, question : can we go from Agri -> AH into BW -> Masonry ?
And... I do believe this also risks the crash.

Hence the Orange city dots that I added later on.
I believe Pottery is the answer and the Orange spot to the south is our desired helper city. Borrowing the pigs, it can grow to size 4 in 12 turns exactly.
Masonry is desirable but has to wait.
The GLH is not an option. Losing on that wonder while having 4 cities and no Pottery / Writing is like an insta loss. We really needed to go straight into Bronze + Sailing to consider it. Starting with expensive techs such as Agri and AH makes it irrealistic.
Losing on the Mids without techs is better but still a very hard blow. At least the fail gold is doubled from the Stone.
OTOH, getting the failgold while having Pottery and the means to research Writing can fuel research all the way into the Classical Era.

A drawback of this tech choice is that it will make it quite hard to access overseas trade routes.
But : overseas trade routes require both Sailing and Writing. One needs a healthy economy to get that all.

Such is the plan to handle the hammers/commerce and units/wonders balancing act.

A couple warriors spawned to the west but the area is very convenient to control.
Second warrior starts scouting East. The oasis is worked to add a modicum of commerce towards our research.
At this point, The Wheel has been researched and I decided to skip Fishing entirely for the moment. I want to start on cottages asap and the settler is soon to be done.

The first worker can road a couple of tiles in wait for Pottery. The second one received the overflow hammers from the settler but is now delayed for a couple turns.
Moscow can grow to 5 and still produce the worker in time for Pottery.

So, T38 we start working on the first cottage and can now research towards Bronze.
Moscow has 8 forests that could be chopped into a wonder...
Settler for city 3 will go by the pigs/rice/fish spot and secure the Western area entirely once cultural borders expand.
This means we can only make a couple of cottages before the workers move out.
As such :

The 3rd worker is almost out. St Petersburg is reaching size 4 and maximizes commerce as it can.
A few barb spawns force me to reorganize my warriors. Notably, the one in the north has to flee to the forested hill.

And this brings us to T49 : Agri, AH, The Wheel, Pottery and Bronze are done. Research will now start on Masonry.
I thought I might revolt into Slavery now and, thus, I stopped. I believe, however, I might wait for both Workers to be out. The first chop will speed up the one from St Petersburg.
Maybe I should even wait on Masonry to revolt. I will get the tech in 6 turns of research.
Moscow has to take the pigs back now that St Pet is at happy cap (without slowing the Worker) and to set up 1 or preferrably 2 whips.
The current builds will bring me up to 5 workers, which should make it possible to pre-chop quite a bit.

Wonders have gone rather fast so far (2640 BC Stonehenge, 2400 GW). Hatty also got an early Judaism, which is a bad sign for wonder dates. With only 3 cities so far, one can only guess what she's building... Wouldn't it be nice if it were the Oracle ?
Copper spawns are great.
The barb archer doesn't seem interested in rushing me, which is fine, and allowed my scout to slip up to the far north of the island.

I haven't made plans for settling the East, yet, but it seems to be just as rich as the West. I'll have to free up a unit to complete the scout.
A scouting Workboat would also be convenient but Fishing that will have to wait until after Writing, I believe (to be assessed). We need to know how many neighbours Hatty has.

Given Marble and how useless HBR is, Aesthetics will be the tech of choice to enter the Classical Era. Novgorod would love to build the Great Library.
This map seems like it would be great for an early switch to Caste System.
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