Dynamic
But not hurry
How many cities have you got?
In my first Settler game I got Printing Press in 1100BC, in second - in 700BC (16 turns delay). But as result my second attempt was 18 turns faster on finish.
Challenge-II-06
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
In my first Settler game I got Printing Press in 1100BC, in second - in 700BC (16 turns delay). But as result my second attempt was 18 turns faster on finish.
iggymnrr
Deity
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,298
Finished in 1090 AD. 15 cities. (One settled on top of cows very late.) The delay in getting some AIs slowed things down as well as no planned GPF site. Managed to scramble merc/philo and oracle/lib/bulb communism/physics/electro/bio. Somehow a late captured barb city built a couple of parts on like 12 good tiles. (Scratching my head. Huh?) Not bad for a quick first attempt. ~4700 BPT at the end with the capitol ~940. Broke a record by 5 pop whipping oxford. (Desparate.) Funniest thing was taking a dual silver start away to settle on rice for 1 silver, but gained pigs and rice back. Almost all tiles in capitol BFC were riverside. First captured city had 3 gems, mined before jungle creep and later acadamied, ~460 BPT.
Edit: Can't decide if OR might not be better. Maybe 17 cities is best (n+1) with perhaps a random barb/aluminum city thrown in. Still think pottery first is best before BW. Seemed to create nice options with a 3-food city center.
Edit: Can't decide if OR might not be better. Maybe 17 cities is best (n+1) with perhaps a random barb/aluminum city thrown in. Still think pottery first is best before BW. Seemed to create nice options with a 3-food city center.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Very nice Capital science output, iggymnrr!
Strange that you have finished so late. How many Workers have you built?
Strange that you have finished so late. How many Workers have you built?
iggymnrr
Deity
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,298
Don't think I made it to 40 workers. Been considering OR especially since my capitol's only hammers early was a single silver mine. Whipped it hard and it still got to pop 27 at the end. Also whipping a few more settlers early would make it good for a time. The national park seems more useful than expected. It let's you get to an extra GA. Trying to remember if ball courts replace colosseums. (Random events anyone?) They came in handy for 1 turn builds at the end when representation was gerrymandering.
First build was a warrior to provide an opportunity for a third undefended AI capitol. Didn't find one in time so both warriors located two AIs while 2 holkans got whipped. Had the holkans not both died (warrior backup came through) I probably would have grabbed a 5th AI capitol. Did get that 5th one with HAs but why I didn't attack HA vs warrior is a mystery. Waited for 2 more HA reinforements so all 3 could die to an archer. (LOL)
Somehow I managed an early academy in the capitol and got a couple of workers out in the early phase. (Love that 3-food center.)
Edit: Haven't solved that communism/bio/electro bottle neck when you want to ironworks/levee/factory phase yet. Also, I played casually without any thought for a GPF site for a long time. May make another attempt but I'm working on an immortal game right now. I intend on shattering the score record for that level.
First build was a warrior to provide an opportunity for a third undefended AI capitol. Didn't find one in time so both warriors located two AIs while 2 holkans got whipped. Had the holkans not both died (warrior backup came through) I probably would have grabbed a 5th AI capitol. Did get that 5th one with HAs but why I didn't attack HA vs warrior is a mystery. Waited for 2 more HA reinforements so all 3 could die to an archer. (LOL)
Somehow I managed an early academy in the capitol and got a couple of workers out in the early phase. (Love that 3-food center.)
Edit: Haven't solved that communism/bio/electro bottle neck when you want to ironworks/levee/factory phase yet. Also, I played casually without any thought for a GPF site for a long time. May make another attempt but I'm working on an immortal game right now. I intend on shattering the score record for that level.
Dynamic
But not hurry
O, Kaitzilla have finished nice Deity game!
Dynamic
But not hurry
Previously I have planned to play Emperor game, but with current Formula I haven't motivation. Only Settler and Deity are competitive for this game.
iggymnrr
Deity
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,298
The AI is as stupid in the middle levels as they are at the extremes.
Currently my immortal game has gone as planned. It is my first attempt at marathon and are the AI slow. 1500 AD and I am most definitely ahead on tech but no one has alphabet yet. I have long had 4 AI capitols. By comparison, I was chariot rushing via galley about this time in my settler game. That's a plus. Just have to figure how to jump start the tech pace. It's just funny that warrior rushes (HC) were faster. Didn't know that you can get capitols defended by a single archer at immortal. This didn't happen at settler level.
I have a great sense of satisfaction and achievement with this victory. I have spent the last 2 1/2 months getting my butt kicked on this game. This is by far the toughest victory that I have accomplished in Civ IV.
I played fractal, low seas, Agg AI, No Random events. I added Qin Shi Huang and Huayna Capac with the required four. This was the key to my game. I played about 70 different games for this one. Most were abandoned quite early. I played about 20 games out to post liberalism teching. I really only had one game where I was close to victory. In that game my spaceship launched about 5 turns too late.
Per STW's recommendations, I had been trying to play Big and Small for Sushi leveraging. There are two main problems with this:
1. There is too much love between the required civs. The four required civs usually don't like Willem early on, but they usually get along quite well by mid game. Bribing wars helps with this, but then you often get caught in the diplo triangle. Bribing peace is essential to prevent anyone from getting too strong and running away with the game. I had to give up a lot of techs with bribing. There is not enough room on Big and Small to add low peaceweight civs.
2. Buying sushi resources gets really expensive. Peaceful expansion doesn't give much land. Most cities have quite a bit of overlap. Therefore, you have less land to secure resources for trading for happiness and sushi resources. Most Sushi resources can be initially bought for 5 gpt initially. This quickly escalates to 12-15 gpt. Not only does this become expensive, it really helps the AI.
A third and lesser problem is the early culture push from neighbors. Liz, Mansa, and Willem push culture the hardest, but Wang Kon will push too. Sushi helps tremendously with the culture push.
I suspect a tropical forest map works well with state property. I hate the jungle sprawl, so I avoided this map. I chose fractal for the choke points. Most AI are within reach early on for trading. I added Qin Shi Huang since almost everyone would hate him and he would like me since I ran bureaucracy. Similarly, I added Huayna Capac since I would run HR for quite a while.
I started with a two corn (one irrigated), two riverside hill gems, a riverside gold, five forests and 8 river tiles. Unfortunately I had to settle on a non-riverside tile to get all the goods. I teched Agr>BW>Hunting>Wheel>Pottery>Writing>Alph>Aesth then traded. Qin Shi was surprisingly the early and mid-game tech leader. I eventually ran hinduism, as that was the safest religion. I didn't get a strong GP farm going, but I still teched well and bulbed (my only tech bulb) most of liberalism and eventually astronomy at 370 AD from liberalism. I think the Agg AI setting slowed AI teching enough to allow me to be the tech leader at this point. Qin Shi was the first to discover Medicine, about three turns ahead of me. I did actually found Sid Sushi once I got Medicine. I then pushed to Superconductors for laboratories. I beat everyone to plastics, and computers to get the internet. After computers, I had a quirky tech path. I went genetics> superconductors> fission> fusion> ecology> satellites> composites. I was hoping to pick up satellites and composites from the internet, but got no such luck.
I could not have been more fortunate with wars in this game. I was never declared upon. I joined two wars at Qin Shi's request against Mansa Musa and never had any battles. I was able to meddle enough with bribing war, bribing civ changes and bribing religion changes to cause enough discourse to keep everyone off my back.
It turned out that Sid Sushi helped, but not as much as I liked. I had a few sushi resources and traded for several. Wars led to resource pillaging that limited seafood availability. My big and small games taught me that more sushi resources are not necessarily better when you are trading for them. My fractal map had a large shoreline that provided quite a few seafood resources.
I couldn't pop a great engineer, and Liz founded Mining Inc. and Creative Constructions within three turns of each other, and somewhat early by AI standards. She spread Creat Const. to me. I spread it to a few cities. Prior to this I was considering state property for my final push. Eventually, Liz killed off one of my neighbors Wang Kon. For the first time in all of my civving, Liz gifted me Pyongyang. She had spread Mining Inc. there before she had captured it. This allowed me to spread Mining Inc. throughout my empire, and giving much needed add'l hammers.
My expansion went very well. I had two choke points and a good chunk of land, some of which was tundra. I didn't have a lot of fresh water, although I was able to spread farms via a long irrigation chain. Early on, Wang Kon put one city right in my face in a prime location. He lost it in a war and eventually it flipped to me. I took one barb city, and settled the rest. I eventually had 14 cities. I had enough land to get two iron, one copper, one coal, three uranium, two aluminum, two oil, and marble. I got stone too late to be of any value.
Near the end of the game, I had a strong tech lead. Actually everyone built their Apollo Programs well before me. I built all the parts in quite a hurry. I was able to trade uranium and aluminum safely to get several happiness and corp resources. Willem overtook Liz in the culture race. Willem was about eight turns closer to victory than me at about 36 turns out. I ran bureaucracy all game and was able to bribe Willem out of free speech for the rest of the game. I also bribed him to representation at another point that gave him 4 turns of anarchy. I beat him by about six turns.
My 14 cities were two, heavily cottaged cities, one GP farm that was a late convert to a production city, two strong production cities, two hybrid cities, and seven weak production cities.
This is the most effort I have put forth for any game. I am thrilled to be able to move on!
I played fractal, low seas, Agg AI, No Random events. I added Qin Shi Huang and Huayna Capac with the required four. This was the key to my game. I played about 70 different games for this one. Most were abandoned quite early. I played about 20 games out to post liberalism teching. I really only had one game where I was close to victory. In that game my spaceship launched about 5 turns too late.
Per STW's recommendations, I had been trying to play Big and Small for Sushi leveraging. There are two main problems with this:
1. There is too much love between the required civs. The four required civs usually don't like Willem early on, but they usually get along quite well by mid game. Bribing wars helps with this, but then you often get caught in the diplo triangle. Bribing peace is essential to prevent anyone from getting too strong and running away with the game. I had to give up a lot of techs with bribing. There is not enough room on Big and Small to add low peaceweight civs.
2. Buying sushi resources gets really expensive. Peaceful expansion doesn't give much land. Most cities have quite a bit of overlap. Therefore, you have less land to secure resources for trading for happiness and sushi resources. Most Sushi resources can be initially bought for 5 gpt initially. This quickly escalates to 12-15 gpt. Not only does this become expensive, it really helps the AI.
A third and lesser problem is the early culture push from neighbors. Liz, Mansa, and Willem push culture the hardest, but Wang Kon will push too. Sushi helps tremendously with the culture push.
I suspect a tropical forest map works well with state property. I hate the jungle sprawl, so I avoided this map. I chose fractal for the choke points. Most AI are within reach early on for trading. I added Qin Shi Huang since almost everyone would hate him and he would like me since I ran bureaucracy. Similarly, I added Huayna Capac since I would run HR for quite a while.
I started with a two corn (one irrigated), two riverside hill gems, a riverside gold, five forests and 8 river tiles. Unfortunately I had to settle on a non-riverside tile to get all the goods. I teched Agr>BW>Hunting>Wheel>Pottery>Writing>Alph>Aesth then traded. Qin Shi was surprisingly the early and mid-game tech leader. I eventually ran hinduism, as that was the safest religion. I didn't get a strong GP farm going, but I still teched well and bulbed (my only tech bulb) most of liberalism and eventually astronomy at 370 AD from liberalism. I think the Agg AI setting slowed AI teching enough to allow me to be the tech leader at this point. Qin Shi was the first to discover Medicine, about three turns ahead of me. I did actually found Sid Sushi once I got Medicine. I then pushed to Superconductors for laboratories. I beat everyone to plastics, and computers to get the internet. After computers, I had a quirky tech path. I went genetics> superconductors> fission> fusion> ecology> satellites> composites. I was hoping to pick up satellites and composites from the internet, but got no such luck.
I could not have been more fortunate with wars in this game. I was never declared upon. I joined two wars at Qin Shi's request against Mansa Musa and never had any battles. I was able to meddle enough with bribing war, bribing civ changes and bribing religion changes to cause enough discourse to keep everyone off my back.
It turned out that Sid Sushi helped, but not as much as I liked. I had a few sushi resources and traded for several. Wars led to resource pillaging that limited seafood availability. My big and small games taught me that more sushi resources are not necessarily better when you are trading for them. My fractal map had a large shoreline that provided quite a few seafood resources.
I couldn't pop a great engineer, and Liz founded Mining Inc. and Creative Constructions within three turns of each other, and somewhat early by AI standards. She spread Creat Const. to me. I spread it to a few cities. Prior to this I was considering state property for my final push. Eventually, Liz killed off one of my neighbors Wang Kon. For the first time in all of my civving, Liz gifted me Pyongyang. She had spread Mining Inc. there before she had captured it. This allowed me to spread Mining Inc. throughout my empire, and giving much needed add'l hammers.
My expansion went very well. I had two choke points and a good chunk of land, some of which was tundra. I didn't have a lot of fresh water, although I was able to spread farms via a long irrigation chain. Early on, Wang Kon put one city right in my face in a prime location. He lost it in a war and eventually it flipped to me. I took one barb city, and settled the rest. I eventually had 14 cities. I had enough land to get two iron, one copper, one coal, three uranium, two aluminum, two oil, and marble. I got stone too late to be of any value.
Near the end of the game, I had a strong tech lead. Actually everyone built their Apollo Programs well before me. I built all the parts in quite a hurry. I was able to trade uranium and aluminum safely to get several happiness and corp resources. Willem overtook Liz in the culture race. Willem was about eight turns closer to victory than me at about 36 turns out. I ran bureaucracy all game and was able to bribe Willem out of free speech for the rest of the game. I also bribed him to representation at another point that gave him 4 turns of anarchy. I beat him by about six turns.
My 14 cities were two, heavily cottaged cities, one GP farm that was a late convert to a production city, two strong production cities, two hybrid cities, and seven weak production cities.
This is the most effort I have put forth for any game. I am thrilled to be able to move on!
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,920
Shulec, congratulations on a very good Deity game. 
I really appreciated your nice write up of the Game.
Great persistence in trying to Win a Challenge II-06 Game and finally doing so with a respectable Date.
Sun Tzu Wu
I really appreciated your nice write up of the Game.
Great persistence in trying to Win a Challenge II-06 Game and finally doing so with a respectable Date.
Sun Tzu Wu
iggymnrr
Deity
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,298
Don't know if I want to make another attempt at this challenge. Just finished my immortal level game. Horrible game in that the scoring record can be smashed. But for my very first HoF attempt at immortal level I was able to break the existing record. Final score was 1,112,322 in 1468 AD. It was right at the point where score was at a peak, fighting off a strike while creeping towards the domination limit one tile at a time. On the last turn I fire-saled my last tech, officially becoming dead last on tech. Had a huge tech lead early that slowly eroded while sushi squeezing cities off the map. Finance was so harsh I became the worlds beggar and donated some sushi resources that, at one time, peaked ~37. (Thank-you Elizabeth for spinning off 3 or 4 vassals.) Want to settle a 1-tile island under AI culture? Get settler to island, use spy to revolt AI city, settle city on 1-tile island. Odd scoring game in that creeping towards the domination limit was needed (broke) and a lot of cities never got terraces and lighthouses on a big and small map, or slow built them with stacks of sushi citizens.
Dynamic
But not hurry
It looks like this game was played on Marathon speed. Note, that it's good game but CII Game 6 should be played on Epic Speed.
Thanks for the nice story Shulec
I too had more than average troubles on this one.
I started off trying some Big and Small maps trying to emulate WastinTime's epic space race victory on the HOF table. I very nearly pulled it off on one attempt after steamrolling Willem and Elizabeth. But Mansa and Wang Kon had other plans
I gave up trying to get the Aposolistic palace religion that Wang was keepying to himself, and helped myself to some Theocracy fueled warmongering to finish Willem off once and for all. 3 turns after coming out of theocracy, Wang spreads his religion to one of my cities and the vote comes up. I clicked Wang as the leader of the Aposolistic Palace for the Hundreth time, but it was religious victory! Oops. Not that it mattered. Should have stayed in Theo the rest of the game I guess.
A few games later I get 3 great cities, with bronze and horse. Elizabeth is building all the great wonders, and I'm getting ready to rush her, crossing my fingers she has no metals. Here's what my warrior scout finds:
Sometimes Deity is .... unfair.
I gave up that strategy and tried rainforest like the leaders did. It worked good. The health event came at the worst moment, after I could do it pain free and before I had any happy resources, so I had to turn it down
Financial cottages are great on Rainforest if you can clear the land. I went peacemonger until my worker changed my mind:
It seems this game Elizabeth was just giving cities away
After she got steamrolled, I thought about hitting Willem with City Raider Riflemen, but decided he'd be better as a tech trader and I'd get space faster letting him be.
Near the end he gave me some pretty intense border pressure with Eiffel tower and the other late game wonders, but my tech rate wasnt affected by it until the very end.
I too had more than average troubles on this one.
I started off trying some Big and Small maps trying to emulate WastinTime's epic space race victory on the HOF table. I very nearly pulled it off on one attempt after steamrolling Willem and Elizabeth. But Mansa and Wang Kon had other plans
Spoiler :
I gave up trying to get the Aposolistic palace religion that Wang was keepying to himself, and helped myself to some Theocracy fueled warmongering to finish Willem off once and for all. 3 turns after coming out of theocracy, Wang spreads his religion to one of my cities and the vote comes up. I clicked Wang as the leader of the Aposolistic Palace for the Hundreth time, but it was religious victory! Oops. Not that it mattered. Should have stayed in Theo the rest of the game I guess.
A few games later I get 3 great cities, with bronze and horse. Elizabeth is building all the great wonders, and I'm getting ready to rush her, crossing my fingers she has no metals. Here's what my warrior scout finds:
Spoiler :
Sometimes Deity is .... unfair.
I gave up that strategy and tried rainforest like the leaders did. It worked good. The health event came at the worst moment, after I could do it pain free and before I had any happy resources, so I had to turn it down
Financial cottages are great on Rainforest if you can clear the land. I went peacemonger until my worker changed my mind:
Spoiler :
It seems this game Elizabeth was just giving cities away
After she got steamrolled, I thought about hitting Willem with City Raider Riflemen, but decided he'd be better as a tech trader and I'd get space faster letting him be.
Near the end he gave me some pretty intense border pressure with Eiffel tower and the other late game wonders, but my tech rate wasnt affected by it until the very end.
Last edited:
This is the only game remaining for me in this challenge... Tho I just bought a new computer and I'm having all sorts of trouble with Civ IV in Windows 7. I tried following the guide to get Buffy to work on it, but so far no luck...
Maybe I'll have to pass on this one
Maybe I'll have to pass on this one
I too had trouble getting Civ to work after getting Windows 7.
The only way I could get it to work was to run both Vanilla and Warlords in a different compatibility mode (Windows NT 4.0)
That's Right click on the icon-> Properties-> Compatibility tab->Check Run this computer in Compatibility.
Hope this works and you are able to get everything patched and working.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I got BtS running so far with BUFFY.
