Challenge-IV-01

Denniz

Denniz

Where's my breakfast?
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[IMG=right]http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/images/greatgeneral.jpg[/IMG]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!​

Settings:
  • Victory Condition: Diplomatic (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Noble
  • Starting Era: Ancient
  • Map Size: Standard
  • Map Type: Big and Small
  • Speed: Epic
  • Must Not Be Checked: Permanent Alliances
  • Civ: America (Washington)
  • Opponents: Must include Aztec (Montezuma), England (Elizabeth), France (Napoleon), Germany (Frederick), Native America (Sitting Bull), Russia (Catherine), Zulu (Shaka)
  • Version: 3.19.003
  • Date: 6th February to 6th June 2011
Must not play as Inca.

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
1290ad, got radio from Lib, and used a GE to build most of the UN.

I was reasonably happy with this date. No major mistakes this game, though the late game wars messed things up a bit. It took 3 votes to secure victory, IIRC.

The biggest problem was that 2nd to 4th all had about the same score, so if I gifted some techs to my allies, then they suddenly became the second placed civ. Monty saved the day for me in the end by DoWing Catherine, so all I had to do to shore up Catherines vote was to DoW Monty.
 
This was my first try at a challenge series game. I had a few attempts that went bad. I stuck with it and finally played one where I built the UN in the 1600s AD. In the first vote I was the leader but came up 98 votes short. Shortly after the second vote Cathy declared war on me. The vote came up and she had voted for me. Our war continued and she voted for me again. :crazyeye: I eventually made peace with her and even gave back the city I had taken from her after she attacked me. During the war I annexed a couple barb cities. Since I couldn't get Napoleon to vote for me I decided to take some of his cities and get French votes that way. As I advanced on Paris another vote came up. Cathy still voted for me and Shaka finally came round, too. With my increased vote I got it! [party] It was 1790 AD but that's pretty good for me.
 
donsig said:
In the first vote I was the leader but came up 98 votes short. Shortly after the second vote Cathy declared war on me. The vote came up and she had voted for me. Our war continued and she voted for me again. :
Click to expand...

OK, the second vote she placed her vote before you were at war. I can understand that this can occur (the results not showing until you are at war, but the votes cast at peace). The statement I do not understand is "Our war continued and she voted for me again."

As far as I know, it is impossible for an AI to vote diplo victory for someone they are at war with. Are you sure she voted for you during a time of war?!?
 
Whew... after taking out Monte and Catherine early using phalanx/cat, I figured on a nice fast peaceful game. GSci from Phys to bulb Elec. Liberalism for Radio. Was unable to get a GE, though, so had to USuff buy the UN. Got the Sec Gen vote in 1325AD, which is probably faster than I've ever managed before. :goodjob:

However, I then saw that Fredrick (my friend) would be my opponent. So I geared up for war again. Started with mace/treb/knights/muskets, and capitulated him fairly quickly after I get rifling.

Now Shaka is my opponent, and it looks good, except that Liz, SB and his colony Pacal who were friendly now have dropped to just pleased because of my vassal being a rival. :mad:

To top matters off, SB is growing fast and soon overtakes Shaka/Nappy for the lead. So I go to war with cavs/rifles... but SB won't capitulate (he, me, and fred would be enough to win). So I have to take all his cities. Me and Fred are enough when the vote comes up, but its another Sec Gen vote, so I have to wait 7 more turns, during which I finish off SB, and make peace with Pacal. Then just wait for the finish. It comes in 1570AD... which is OK, but considering that I finished the UN so much earlier, I'm kind of disappointed in it. Still, presently second place so I won't gripe too much. :D

Some tricks I used: since I wouldn't win the first couple UN DV votes anyhow, I forced everyone into Enviromentalism to get some +diplo with SB (nobody otherwise had the tech to run Enviro). Did the same with Free Religion to get +diplo with Liz, but really didn't need to... since I already gifted her Liberlaism and asked her to switch and she did... but it prevented her from going back to Judaism that she founded, at least.

Now... we'll see if this one gets excluded. If so, I'm having firewall issues again, since I was very careful not to botch the saves. Wish me luck.
 
kcd_swede said:
OK, the second vote she placed her vote before you were at war. I can understand that this can occur (the results not showing until you are at war, but the votes cast at peace). The statement I do not understand is "Our war continued and she voted for me again."

As far as I know, it is impossible for an AI to vote diplo victory for someone they are at war with. Are you sure she voted for you during a time of war?!?
Click to expand...

Maybe the second one was a Sec Gen vote? I'll have to see if I have a save from that war. IIRC she friendly to me when she attacked (+27 I think) and she was still friendly during the vote (+12 I think). This was the first game where I really paid any attention to those numbers so my understanding of them is minimal.
 
This one tickled my fancy so booted up my first Civ IV SP game for over a year...

Was going swimmingly, two turns left on Electricity in 1000AD, have Liberalism to get radio and 2 Great Artists to bulb Mass Media. No AI has CS or Machinery so they are tech no hopers.

However, Napolean declares on me with Longbows and Swords (doesn't have catapults). Of course, my defenses are pitiful, warriors and archers. I can build catapults, maces and crossbows but haven't got Engineering or Guilds yet. I quit the game to decide later if I can be bothered to finish as it will take some effort to see him off :sad:. Will try and bribe everyone else into the war and destroy him probably...
 
I submitted a 655 AD diplomation.

Game Settings:
I added Mansa Musa in case I could get a few techs off him (he was an early rush victim.) With the increased number of AI, I played with Low Sea Level to make more land available. I played with tribal villages and no barbs for obvious reasons. I left on Random events for the heck of it.

Initial Strategy
Tribal villages were generous and gave me Animal Husbandry in my second hut. There were horses in my BFC. I had Corn, Hill Pigs, 3FP, Marble and PH stone, upon which I settled. An early whip chariot rush netted me a few workers and capitols. I stole a few more workers, then settled into the building phase.

Building/Research Phase
I built the Pyramids first, then Oracled Civil Service. I founded Confuscionism on the way to the CS slingshot. I then built the Parthenon. My gp farm built the NE, then the GL. I built the Hanging Gardens in my capitol to generate more GE point (along with the Pyramids.) I built the MoM in case I would need a Golden Age, and the GA points wouldn't hurt. I bulbed Philosophy so I could run Pacifism earlier. I teched at 0% on the slider to save all of my gold for once I had the Oxford U. Due to Representation/Caste Sys, I still teched quite well. The AI were nearly useless for techs. I got hunting, archery and monarchy from them. Thats it.

Great People
I saved most of my GS for bulbing Scientific Method, Physics, and Electricity (one used on Philosophy and maybe one on Education.) I used two GA (one from Music) toward Mass Media. I took Radio from Liberalism. I had generated a second GE. I used this GE for a Golden Age slavery switch to get my 6 Universities for the Oxford.

The United Nations
I built this in one turn. I used a GE. I built it in a hammer rich city. I chose not to build military units in this city. I had built a forge, then built research only (to preserve my forest chop hammers.) I chopped about 8 forests to ensure a one turn production of the UN.

Diplomacy
I made a late game vassal out of Shaka. I had been tormenting him all game by stealing workers, bribing war against him. He was very backwards. I sent a few Maces chopped frome of my major commerce cities that had a lot of forests. His archers crumbled. I delayed researching feudalism until after Radio, hoping that one of the AI would research it for me. I took all of the votes accept for Freddy's, my opponent, on the first vote.
 
1525AD. Added an extra random civ who ended up being Izzy and spreading Christianity everywhere. Liz and Shaka were quickly knocked out giving me a massive peninsular all to myself, Sitting Bull and Monty capitulated to my cavalry, Izzy voluntarily became my bitc h, and Cathy was deeply in love with me giving me plenty of votes to win. Nappy was a complete nonfactor, and Fred made himself my UN rival by colonising every island he could find.
 
Ozbenno said:
Hmmm, must have forgotten the rules after not playing for so long.

UN resolutions pop up in 1560AD, but there is no option for diplomatic victory :mad:. I have 67% of the population, does this stop this coming up???

Not happy at all :cry:
Click to expand...

For normal Diplomatic Victory, I believe the actual percentage equals the amount required for Diplomatic Victory. That is 60% in both cases. However, note that when you are just under 60%, truncation division may still equate your population to 60%.

I believe the following formula will help you get as close as possible without actually going over:

Vote threshold = <Total World Population> * 6 / 10 using integer division.

Using a calculator and dropping the factional part is all you need to do. One can simply multiply by 0.6 and drop the fractional part too.

The important to remember is the Vote threshold is always computed by truncating (dropping the fractional part) and never done by rounding up. Civ 4 always truncates.

Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory also has this Vote threshold and it is 75% in this case.

Not a single Civ may have the same or more Votes than the Vote threshold (= Vote Winning threshold). This applies to both UN Diplomatic Victory and Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Ozbenno said:
Hmmm, must have forgotten the rules after not playing for so long.

UN resolutions pop up in 1560AD, but there is no option for diplomatic victory :mad:. I have 67% of the population, does this stop this coming up???

Not happy at all :cry:
Click to expand...

This is a nice problem to have, actually.
Do a few 8-pop whips of a wonder or something. Whip whip whip! Enjoy it! All you need to do is reduce pop. Starving will also do. Good luck!
 
Ozbenno said:
I'll give some cities away to my best buddy Cathy and worst enemy Sitting Bull and whip some stuff while puuting everything on population hold. Guess I wait 10 turns for victory then....

So it is 60% pop limit I have to achieve???
Click to expand...

Yes, but since the Population threshold is determined by integer division (truncation), I'd go a bit lower than 60% (the only time it is exactly 60% is when the World Population is exactly a integer multiple of 10; otherwise it will be less than 60%!). Plus you need to be at least one population below that threshold too! (that was an unwritten assumption of my previous post).

Be very careful about your Population growing in the Voting turn. If the threshold is met or exceeded in this manner, the Vote is nullified (invalidated)! This can also bite you, if Opponents whip their Population enough, to cause your Population to exceed the new threshold.

59% might be enough, asuming nothing drastic happens in the Voting turn, before the Votes are counted. So I'd get below 55% to be really safe from massive opponent whipping.

Good luck Ozbenno!

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Ozbenno said:
Hmmm, must have forgotten the rules after not playing for so long.

UN resolutions pop up in 1560AD, but there is no option for diplomatic victory :mad:. I have 67% of the population, does this stop this coming up???

Not happy at all :cry:
Click to expand...

If you have intercontinental cities, you might also be able to turn some of those into colonies to get under the diplo limit. I don't know for sure if that'd work, but I can't see why it wouldn't.
 
azzaman333 said:
If you have intercontinental cities, you might also be able to turn some of those into colonies to get under the diplo limit. I don't know for sure if that'd work, but I can't see why it wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Good idea, but I don't think it flies. I recall reading that Vassal votes are added to your own when compared to the Diplomatic Victory Eligibility threshold. It does make sense that this is the case, since Vassals must Vote the way you Vote. If this did work, it would be an "obvious" loop hole for circumventing the Rule that you can't Vote yourself into a DV. You must have at least one Civ free of your (Vassal) influence voting for your DV to help you Win it. Remember that a Colony is simply a Vassal that you create yourself and it must abide your decisions in many global matters such as all Votes.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
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