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Challenge-XV-06

Discussion in 'Hall of Fame Challenger Series' started by lymond, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

    (*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
    (*) Games must be played using the >> BUFFY MOD 3.19.003 <<
    (*) Games to be submitted via the >> Civ IV Hall of Fame Website <<
    (*) New players, please >> register << using your CFC forum name

    Settings:
    • Victory Condition: Space Colony (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
    • Difficulty: Immortal
    • Starting Era: Ancient
    • Map Size: Standard
    • Speed: Normal
    • Map Type: Inland Sea
    • Required: Permanent Alliances
    • Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians
    • Civ: Russia (Catherine)
    • Opponents: Must include Carthage (Hannibal), England (Victoria), Germany (Frederick), Greece (Alexander), India (Asoka), Korea (Wang Kon)
    • Version: 3.19.003 or 3.19.003s
    • Date: 15th December 2014 to 15th May 2015
    Must not play as Inca.
    The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
     
  2. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I forgot how much of a beeootch barbs are on high level Inland Sea games. IS maps are very hit and miss land wise, but the barbs will really slow you down. HA...I've been playing so many lower level games of late that getting back to IMM/Deity is a shock. I think maxxing out AIs will help some. I did not do that at first.
     
  3. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I am not sure how much Perm Alliances help on this one. I didn't start off intending to form a PA, but I did. The AI manages to foul up the SS building micro, costing some turns. They did help in the end with research.

    1685 AD. I didn't even realize I had captured the Pyramids until I went to switch to Bureaucracy and was going to piggyback HR on the anarchy.

    Worker stealing was surprisingly slow early on since starting with hunting and a scout. I built my first Research Institute. I am not even sure of its unique quality. I think it is something like allowing an additional science specialist.
     
  4. colonelmustard

    colonelmustard Chieftain

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    I just failed an attempt, but I wasn't as competitive as what's posted. I entered PA with Korea after many early wars. It was a help for research. I was keeping a close eye on turns to cultural victory to pace ahead of it, but Victoria must have really cranked it up late. I didn't have time to go take care of it.:crazyeye:
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Keep tryin', colonelmustard! Good to see you playing the challengers
     
  6. aitkensam

    aitkensam Warlord

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    I asked about this in strategy & tips as i also encountered this problem in my game. I was told that as long as you finish techs yourself (i.e. your PA doesn't) then you get first option to build any related SS parts. Also, that stacking SS parts as later builds in cities will prevent your PA from starting them. I haven't tested it out though.

    I think if I play this one through again I won't bother with a PA, as they don't make great use of the land. If I do make one (cos of lack of time for war etc), then I will use my workers to improve their land...
     
  7. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I saw that too. Using those tips, PA will be superior.
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Are you really sure? I always thought, that the human can make the most out of the land, so conquer the whole map, leave 1 or 2 opponents to not trigger domination, found a Food corp + Mining and there you got, with a 1400-1500AD finish date.
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    try it Serial. It doesn't preclude you from getting a good bit of land yourself. The PA will help a lot with teching late. It's just controlling those damn parts that is tricky.
     
  10. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    So far the quickest normal speed space win above Warlord difficulty is 1535AD... But maybe this challenge has the potential to change that.
     
  11. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    I should have written 15xx - 16xx date ^^ .

    Still, I believe that PA is a poor option if compared to having the land onesself, don't forget, that PAs also increase the tech-costs, so if your PA is bad at teching, it'll even slow you down!

    Regarding capturing the land, there are 10xx conquest victories by sossos, and I once conquered a complete Pangaea even before 10xx (990 AD finish date :D ) , so even with a little more land to conquer, it should actually be very possible, because I went for superslow Elepult, a successful HA-rush will be a lot faster!

    Regarding improving the land of the PA-partner with one's own Workers, I believe this will be totally wasted by AI again building Farms where you just dropped Cottages, right?
     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I don't think you can build stuff with workers in PA partner's land. I might be wrong. It's been a while since I've done PA. I know you can settle great people in their cities which really sucks.

    Getting close to Dom limit is usually the best way for Space. I think that is fairly well known. It'd be interesting to see how a PA approach compares. Tech cost go up, but it still seems like you tech faster with PA from what I remember. Plus, you have to invest a bit less in war I suspect.

    And don't forget you can add in AIs up to the limit for the mapsize, so adding Mansa/Pacal or whatnot may provide a strong PA partner. (actually what I did in my current game, but I'm far from finishing)

    Anyone know if PA partner land is 100% toward Dom or 50%?
     
  13. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    You can improve the land of your PA-partner, 100% sure about that.

    Also, maximum AIs will slow this game down, what one wants is as few AIs as possible with as much land as possible, because those 2 things make AIs strong / fast.
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    hmmm...I'm very skeptical of that logic. I think more AIs would be better. More early cities to conquer and if you know X AI will make a good partner you can always gift him some of those cities or let him capture them...maybe even work them a while yourself to make sure they are suitably improved. Anyway, you can always tailor things to make sure that 1 AI you want strong is strong.
     
  15. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    I forgot about city-gifts, so forget what I wrote. I'm not used to gifting AI any of my cities, because THEY ARE BELONG TO ME! ^^

    BTW., why is this Space-race on crappy Inland-Sea map? Terra or Continents would just be so much better!
     
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Well, Challenges are just as much about variety and whatnot. Plus, I heavily emphasize QM with my setups, so I try to cover a wide range of maps and settings. Certain games sometimes are tailored for the "best" atmosphere..so to speak, but oftentimes the Challengers are about not having the ideal settings..hence challenges. This includes settings and particular AIs select. For instance, the fun little Cyrus conquest game against a map full of protective leaders.

    Inland Sea is still an QM map. While the very best of all Space game at these settings may be achieved, I think this setup should be very competitive for Inland Sea Space games.

    (also, and not all Challengers are obviously about QM and best of. OCC, AWs, late era starts, those games won't be competitive as there is no hof marker for them. It's just about the fun)
     
  17. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Pondering about trying this, have never done Space on Immortal. Reckon Culture can be a real threat. Is Low Sea level, Arid and Max AIs the way to go? Not tried this mapscript before so no idea what it's like, apart from the lake in the middle.
     
  18. aitkensam

    aitkensam Warlord

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    Take my advice with a pinch of salt if any of the good guys comment, but in case they don't....

    Assuming you're going to get a decent date and conquer half the world, culture is not really a threat. AI is just too slow.
    Other settings seem to make sense to me. Only thing I noticed about this mapscript is that there is generally more land than on, for example, pangaea. So extra AIs seems helpful.
    Also, going by my game, PAs are fairly pointless. I would have preferred a vassal.
     
  19. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Cheers. Does indeed look like lots of land, so glad I went with 10 AIs. Considerably bigger than normal Pangaea I'd say. Don't know if it's just the map I started playing or the mapscript is like this, but with arid there were floodplains all over the place. And desert of course, which is rather less desirable ;)

    Early warring is probably needed here too for a good date, so I tried HA rushing, which wasn't all that easy to be honest. Maybe you need horse in BFC to properly pull it off.

    Not played with PAs before, but from what little I've read they're a bit challenging. Would have preferred vassals too as it's so nice to be able to direct their research, but that's part of the challenge I guess.
     
  20. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    You're allowed to play with Vassals too, I suppose. And you don't have to make a permanent alliance.

    Arid Inland Sea is pretty crazy. Haven't played a map like that, so not sure how it ends up, but at least you'll have a lot of floodplains. I guess you could go with tropical too if you want that familiar rainforest feel. ;)
     

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