change.org petition to exonerate Poundmaker

[Karpius]

What I am careful about is what I am unaware of. The correct way to deal with this is to ask for a review of the trial. To appeal the conviction rather than demand exoneration. I agree with the principle of the petition but am only hearing one side of the argument and am in no way in a position to be part of a jury.
I would gladly sign a petition for retrial/review but not exoneration. If anything Poundmaker deserves correct assessment rather than a 'we feel guilt for all we have done so lets just let you off' type approach.

So very well put!!

I am always leery of overturning generations old legal decisions because 'today' we don't like them. Even if in our heart of hearts we are sure something was wrong, do we have the right to change what others decided so long ago?

Appeal the conviction...yes. Review everything possible....yes. But even then, be wary of making any decision that goes beyond only what evidence you have found.

 

[God of Kings]

Last month, the CBC had an article about the Poundmaker exoneration petition: http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/petition-poundmaker-cree-nation-pardon-1.4432937

 

[Icicle]

Thanks for posting this, signed.

 

[Thormodr]

When this thread was started, about 3,000 people had signed the petition in a month, or so.
Now it is up to 3,338+ Civ Fanatics played a large role in boosting those numbers. Good job all.

 

[Abraxis]

338 out of 1,313 views.

Good job to a few of us, is more accurate.

Still, it beats running them down with a pickup truck while laughing about "hitting another one", I guess.

 

[Vandlys]

338 out of 1,313 views.

Good job to a few of us, is more accurate.

Still, it beats running them down with a pickup truck while laughing about "hitting another one", I guess.

Are views counted as separate individuals? Because if not, people posting in this 3 times gets you quite a long way to your number, assuming that more people read multiple times than post multiple times.

Or am I being daft?

 

[Vandlys]

I have not yet.

The jury of the day with the biased information and the wrong mindset found him guilty which could well be wrong.
To me to avoidance of pursuit is most likely a peaceful act but not proven.
To me the giving himself up is important but the intention can be misunderstood.
To me the taking of food in a deserted town is important. No one was killed, everyone was hiding in fear and if I was to have multiple bands of hungry warriors (some not mine) it would be near impossible to stop.
Why were they there? it seems for food only and they had been promised adequate food and the real likely cause of this is inadequate food was provided for more likely was pilfered along the way
I see no proof that he deserved his sentence, at best he should be held responsible for the actions of his troops to looting but is that treason? I just do not know.

What I am careful about is what I am unaware of. The correct way to deal with this is to ask for a review of the trial. To appeal the conviction rather than demand exoneration. I agree with the principle of the petition but am only hearing one side of the argument and am in no way in a position to be part of a jury.
I would gladly sign a petition for retrial/review but not exoneration. If anything Poundmaker deserves correct assessment rather than a 'we feel guilt for all we have done so lets just let you off' type approach.

I completely agree with you, but I still signed. I think your views are completely correct, but you would need to create a different petition. Saying I would sign but I can't because there isn't a petition is akin to saying you will not support the change. I would, is not akin to I will.
This petition at least shows the general public and the government there is interest in change, with the ultimate option of exhonoration. In truth, it will serve to bring to light the possible, or likely, injustice, and have people reassess the events. That's why I signed it myself : )

 

[Abraxis]

Are views counted as separate individuals? Because if not, people posting in this 3 times gets you quite a long way to your number, assuming that more people read multiple times than post multiple times.

Or am I being daft?

That's a good question, I've always assumed they were unique, but I don't actually know. Not sure how it's useful information otherwise, though.

 

[Victoria]

Are views counted as separate individuals? Because if not, people posting in this 3 times gets you quite a long way to your number, assuming that more people read multiple times than post multiple times.

Or am I being daft?

Well online polls have been going a long time. Likely based on original source IP, a lot depend on what’s at their end, for example 10,000 votes with similar IP’s in a short period of time. It could be manipulated but the moment a poll is viewed to be manipulated people will argue the whole thing is void.

 

[liv]

I think they were talking about view counts in this thread and not the poll.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The petition was also posted on Reddit, so there have been contributions from there as well.

 

[Abraxis]

whatever the case. I don't like to stamp out an attempt to set a positive tone, but ya'll should really just go sign it. Whether you understand it or not. The traffic will put it onto the desk of someone who is qualified to understand it and make a proper judgement. It looks to me like the majority of folks took the time to open this thread, but not to click like like, 4 more buttons to help a people out. -To at least get some recognition in the same media that is as we speak representing them. Falsely or accurately... just or not, none of that is relevant to us here right now.

 

[Janskey]

I signed it, too. That change.org site is really annoying, though. Maybe it's because I didn't use facebook or whatever to share, but I had to click through tons of different petitions with an option to one-click sign (which I didn't), to get my sig accepted. I think we have a much better system in Finland called the citizen's initiative, but it is only for Finnish citizens.

An amendment to the Constitution that allows citizens' initiatives to be submitted to Parliament entered into force on 1 March 2012. At least 50,000 Finnish citizens who are eligible to vote can submit an initiative to Parliament for the enactment of legislation. Signatures must be collected within a period of six months.

 

[Abraxis]

Yeah it is dumb, I don't use facebook either, I think you can just exit after signing the first one.

It all starts with education, if they'd model our system after yours like I've been telling them the last 20 years, probably we'd have people in office capable of re-evaluating the representative part of the democracy with the whole internet thing giving everyone a direct line to Ottawa and all that... but who knows. This city moves pretty slow, and so does the government, and just about anything it touches.

 

[bdp612]

Civ Name: Canada
Leader: Justin Trudeau
LA: The Great Exonerator

Pardon Poundmaker shared an update on Justin Trudeau: Pardon Poundmaker Check it out and leave a comment:


PETITION UPDATE
Pîhtokahanapiwiyin will have his name restored
Thank you to everyone who has signed and supported this important petition. We have received word from the Canadian government that a complete exoneration for Chief Poundmaker is going to move ahead, which is overwhelmingly positive and long-awaited news. Here is the statement issued from the Government when approached by CBC Radio's The Current about this endeavour (January 9th): "The...

 

[Icicle]

Update:

JAN 18, 2018 — Thank you to everyone who has signed and supported this important petition. We have received word from the Canadian government that a complete exoneration for Chief Poundmaker is going to move ahead, which is overwhelmingly positive and long-awaited news.

Here is the statement issued from the Government when approached by CBC Radio's The Current about this endeavour (January 9th):

"The Government of Canada is now in a position to move forward with Poundmaker Cree Nation to develop a joint statement of exoneration for a Chief Poundmaker. The process should commence shortly. We look forward to working with Chief Antoine and the Poundmaker Cree Nation toward this goal."

Please know that your support and action helped contribute to this happening. And for that we cannot thank you enough.​

https://www.change.org/p/justin-trudeau-pardon-poundmaker/u/22264579

 

[Thormodr]

This is truly great news.

 

[Xur]

Honestly... “justice” is 100+ years too late and Poundmaker wont care. All this does is to appease people that live in the past.

Let historians figure this out and tell the story in a modern setting. If we “correct” all the wrongdoings throughout history we belittle it. Better to learn, forgive and better ourselves. Tell the story - dont bury it in a feelgood political act.

I know it’s a controversial viewpoint, but when we forget we tend to repeat.

And now we forget.

 

[Thormodr]

Honestly... “justice” is 100+ years too late and Poundmaker wont care. All this does is to appease people that live in the past.

Let historians figure this out and tell the story in a modern setting. If we “correct” all the wrongdoings throughout history we belittle it. Better to learn, forgive and better ourselves. Tell the story - dont bury it in a feelgood political act.

I know it’s a controversial viewpoint, but when we forget we tend to repeat.

And now we forget.

Canada apologized for what they did to Japanese Canadian citizens in WW2.
Canada apologized for the horrific residential school abuses.
Canada apologized for the head tax imposed on Chinese immigrants to Canada.

I am proud of my country for realizing that Canada, as a country, did wrong. When you are wrong, as a person or a country, you apologize and if necessary, compensate. You also should create a memorial. As you said, we shouldn't forget.

 

[Xur]

Canada apologized for what they did to Japanese Canadian citizens in WW2.
Canada apologized for the horrific residential school abuses.
Canada apologized for the head tax imposed on Chinese immigrants to Canada.

I am proud of my country for realizing that Canada, as a country, did wrong. When you are wrong, as a person or a country, you apologize and if necessary, compensate. You also should create a memorial. As you said, we shouldn't forget.

Person and country are different entities. The Canada that was 100+ years ago aren’t the same as today. Countries are an abstract construct. None of the people in charge back then are alive and why should you apologize?

Then I should apologize to England for my forefathers viking raids? All I am saying... when it’s so far back that none are left alive, there’s a point in time it gets a bit selfserving and little to do with the actual persons from back then.

But I know it’s not the political correct viewpoint, but just my opinion anyway. Lets agree to disagree...

European countries could be apologizing 24/7 then anyway lol