Change Spain to an exploration Civ.

[Sostratus]

Civ5 Spain was, in the context of civ5, a total rng hound but an absolute homerun of gameplay. Of course with how natural wonders are you can’t really go back to that. But even something like “get a eureka/inspiration for each natural wonder you discover”
“+1 to all districts outside your home continent” etc type bonus could be conjured up.

Ultimately Spain is a miss because inter continental play over oceans doesn’t work due to loyalty. Also, treasure fleet is just a weak ability and could use a buff. Just look at Poundmaker’s trade ability, or Inca’s.
Making that work better would go a long way.

 

[CoconutTank]

I would like an exploration civ, but I would also like exploration to be much better than it is now for every civ:

• Recon units should have more sources of XP. In Vox Populi they gain XP just for unveiling the map. An alternative approach might be to give them XP for uncovering named features (vaguely similar to exploration in forgotten classic Conquest of the New World). Another alternative might be to uncap barbarian XP for Recon units.
• Being the first to discover something should get you something. A boost of faith or culture, some great person points, some gold, I don't know. Spain, or another exploration focused civ, could have these bonuses enhanced. Again, looking at CotNW, discovering a feature earned you the right to name it, as well as points (which is what you played for in that game).[...]

Being the first to circumnavigate the world is worth 5 era score, and being the first to discover a natural wonder is worth 4 era score. Otherwise, circumnavigating the world is worth 3 era score and discovering a natural wonder is worth 1 era score. I'm assuming you probably want something more substantial than that though.

Being the first to discover a CS is also a pretty nice bonus, particularly if one comes across a religious CS or cultural CS.

This isn't to say that these bonuses are enough, just that there do exist bonuses for exploration firsts. Maybe Spain could get something like "whenever they earn era score, they also get 1 Great Prophet point" or "whenever they discover another civ or a foreign continent, they also get 10 Great Prophet points".

I do also wish Recon units could get like 1 XP per tile of hard FoW that they uncover.

 

[KayAU]

@CoconutTank
You're right, I would like something more substantial. I didn't forget about the era score, but it's just a bit of problematic resource/currency, which I often do not want to earn if the timing is not right (either because it is wasted as overflow or because I desire a Dark Age more than a Normal Age). Tying some ability bonus to era score directly is an interesting idea which I had not considered, but I think it would be best if accompanied with a slight redesign of how eras and era score works.

Exploration is potentially a really fun part of a 4x. I already mentioned some of the features of other games: Beyond Earth with its expeditions, CotNW where you get to name map features and earn score for being the first to discover certain geographical features (and you get more for longer rivers/taller mountains). Another example of a 4x which does this well is Stellaris, which has an unusually long exploration phase, and a lot of interesting things to find. In Civ 6, however, I usually end up putting my units on auto-explore after a while, and often don't even look at the terrain outside of my immediate surroundings. My immediate surroundings are important because they hold settling spots, goodie huts, and unmet city states. They are also important in order to understand my strategic situation, but once this has been uncovered, exploration really looses most of its meaning.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

As Byzantium has taken the spot for "religious/conquest" based civ

Not directly related, but I found this thematic design kind of odd from Firaxis' part.
The history of the Byzantine Empire was (with some exceptions) a history of long gradual decline, culminating in the fall of Constantinople in 1453 where the remaining empire at the time was but a tiny remnant of its former greatness.

In civ 6 however, they are instead blitzing through the world and increasing the empire's size with unparalleled speed, more in line with their enemies at the time.

 

[Ticio]

Civ5 Spain was, in the context of civ5, a total rng hound but an absolute homerun of gameplay. Of course with how natural wonders are you can’t really go back to that. But even something like “get a eureka/inspiration for each natural wonder you discover”
“+1 to all districts outside your home continent” etc type bonus could be conjured up.

Ultimately Spain is a miss because inter continental play over oceans doesn’t work due to loyalty. Also, treasure fleet is just a weak ability and could use a buff. Just look at Poundmaker’s trade ability, or Inca’s.
Making that work better would go a long way.

I agree, is too dependant on l

Civ5 Spain was, in the context of civ5, a total rng hound but an absolute homerun of gameplay. Of course with how natural wonders are you can’t really go back to that. But even something like “get a eureka/inspiration for each natural wonder you discover”
“+1 to all districts outside your home continent” etc type bonus could be conjured up.

Ultimately Spain is a miss because inter continental play over oceans doesn’t work due to loyalty. Also, treasure fleet is just a weak ability and could use a buff. Just look at Poundmaker’s trade ability, or Inca’s.
Making that work better would go a long way.

This is the reason why I think the change to +1Food/Production per continent crossed or the double distance tiles per trade could be tiny enhancers.

You can still conquer territory on other continents, and Spain is suited to do so during the renaissance era, but again... if you did not enjoy the bonus from the start you will have a very bad time conquering other civs as you started almost with no bonuses (or none at all).
But I find the civ very interesting as it is quite challenging!

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

This is what's i'm doing rightnow in a WIP mod i'm making. Conquistador being Recce class (Because there's significant in unit rosters due to an introduction of hybrid class--Infantry-- which are a combo of Melee and Anticavalry) with a same strong attack and steep price comparing to UNIT_Explorer. Because historically Spanish conquistadores NEVER operates in Continental Europe.

 

[Vargas1]

I'd like to see Spain get an added ability that for each point of Era Score it gets, it gets 1 Great Prophet Point if it hasn't yet founded a religion (and there are GPPs available), or it gets some amount of faith for each point otherwise (maybe 3-5 faith per point). This would reward exploration/discovery and address the biggest complaint I've seen about Spain (that they are religion-focused with no bonuses to getting religion), without being gamebreaking - figure you typically get 12-20 points in the ancient era, which would then give you 1/5 to 1/3 of what you'd need to get a Great Prophet. So it would definitely make founding a religion easier for Spain, but they'd still have to devote some attention to early holy sites, etc. And 3-5 faith per point for the rest of the game would be a nice supplement, but wouldn't be too great an amount.

 

[ehecatzin]

England has changed from originally being about British Museums into a much heavier industrial focus, so it's certainly not impossible for them to make wholesale changes to a civ without adding in a leader.

Yes, when Eleonor was added, that's my point. Perhaps if Isabella made it in they could take the chance to tweak Spain.

Maybe +1 trade route for every holy city you control?

That'd be very cool actually.

I think what differentiates Spain from byzantium is Spain's bigger focus on intercontinental warfare and stronger trade routes. So I think they should get some extra trade routes somewhere. I'm tempted to give them Victoria's +1 trade route per continent. But perhaps +1 trade route per holy city is more thematic.

+1 traderoute on holy site is nice, however I think +1 trade route per settled continent I think synergizes better with Spain's main kit.

 

[King of Prussia]

Having played several times over the years, they always came across as lackluster. Loyalty mechanics certainly do not help them with foreign continents. I hope they eventually get some love.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I don't necessarily think Spain should be reworked, but it definitely should be buffed so that their colonial character sticks out more. The first city they conquer* on each foreign continent should always be loyal and exert double loyalty pressure during Golden Ages, for instance. El Escoreal's bonus should also apply to cultures without a majority religion.

These three are small changes by themselves, don't interfere with the other Spanish bonuses but help specialize Spain as a civ geared towards invading other continents and conquering them. Byzantium's bonuses are very strong on land maps such as Pangaea and Fractal but somewhat awkward on water maps where their cavalry is less useful. Spain should fill a similar role on water maps, specifically Continents and Island plates.

*Settling could work but that's Victoria's niche and is already covered by the RND providing loyalty.

 

[Ticio]

I don't necessarily think Spain should be reworked, but it definitely should be buffed so that their colonial character sticks out more. The first city they conquer* on each foreign continent should always be loyal and exert double loyalty pressure during Golden Ages, for instance. El Escoreal's bonus should also apply to cultures without a majority religion.

These three are small changes by themselves, don't interfere with the other Spanish bonuses but help specialize Spain as a civ geared towards invading other continents and conquering them. Byzantium's bonuses are very strong on land maps such as Pangaea and Fractal but somewhat awkward on water maps where their cavalry is less useful. Spain should fill a similar role on water maps, specifically Continents and Island plates.

*Settling could work but that's Victoria's niche and is already covered by the RND providing loyalty.

The idea is to make some changes if Portugal never reach the game.


If, unfortunately, is the case maybe a Philip persona with exploration ideas could be interesting, but I really like Spanish's bonuses (maybe a buff, but they are quite correct) and I prefer if they change nothing.

That said, in the absence of Portugal, I would say that Spain is the best suited of the actual civs to take the place of "explorer Civ" (except maybe Norway or Maori)


For your proposal, Spain has the loyalty bonus thanks to the mission, but it is true that conquered cities tend to lack empty tiles close to city center and you need workers. Maybe a free worker per city conquered in other continent? This way you can build Mission as soon as you conquer!

 

[8housesofelixir]

That said, in the absence of Portugal, I would say that Spain is the best suited of the actual civs to take the place of "explorer Civ" (except maybe Norway or Maori)

Both Norway and Maori have an earlier ocean-crossing ability, make exploring more feasible and accessible rather than being lock behind Cartography.

Spain, on the other hand, although have a lot of non-capital-continents bonuses, received nothing to help them ocean-crossing, despite the fact that they were very good at it (strong cartography) IRL.

If Portugal isn't going to make it into the game, I'm a firm supporter of giving Spain an edge on ocean-crossing.

 

[Ticio]

Both Norway and Maori have an earlier ocean-crossing ability, make exploring more feasible and accessible rather than being lock behind Cartography.

Spain, on the other hand, although have a lot of non-capital-continents bonuses, received nothing to help them ocean-crossing, despite the fact that they were very good at it (strong cartography) IRL.

If Portugal isn't going to make it into the game, I'm a firm supporter of giving Spain an edge on ocean-crossing.

Not bad idea, maybe letting have the ability a bit sooner (like vikings, but after them).

 

[CoconutTank]

How about religious units can cross oceans, and any units in formation with religious units can also cross oceans

 

[The googles do nothing]

How about religious units can cross oceans, and any units in formation with religious units can also cross oceans

That's such a good idea i wonder if it might be given to a new civ,

 

[Ticio]

How about religious units can cross oceans, and any units in formation with religious units can also cross oceans

I think the idea is quite interesting and unique!

The only problem from my point of view would be the dangers; the pirates would exterminate them (as when you send the scouts into the ocean). Without ships to protect them, the units would have no defense against the barbarians.

 

[CoconutTank]

I think the idea is quite interesting and unique!

The only problem from my point of view would be the dangers; the pirates would exterminate them (as when you send the scouts into the ocean). Without ships to protect them, the units would have no defense against the barbarians.

Ships can be in formation with religious units too, so hopefully the ships will be able to escort the religious units to make them less vulnerable

 

[8housesofelixir]

How about religious units can cross oceans, and any units in formation with religious units can also cross oceans

That's such a good idea i wonder if it might be given to a new civ,

Ireland with their Hiberno-Scottish missions? Besides, a lot of Old Irish tales, called the Immrams, focused on the hero's sea journey to the Otherworld.

There was also an Irish priest, Brendan of Clonfert, who was claimed to have been voyaged to the New World.

 

[Ticio]

Ships can be in formation with religious units too, so hopefully the ships will be able to escort the religious units to make them less vulnerable

You are... totally right! I did not thought about it XD
Then, I have not a single complaint about this Idea as ships can protect the religious units and you can put religious unis and melee units in the center of a formation (doing a kind of treasure fleet)

 

[Steadyzz]

I think Phlilip shouldn't lose loyalty from cities not following your religion and should be able to buy missionaries ffrom a holy site alone. And imo should get a free settler when settling your first city on another continent.