Cheats.

[BearMan]

All well established mp games have:
1. Cheat producers.
2. Cheat users.
3. Exploit users, (Exploit usage is generally accepted in civ, yes? )

Since I'm debating against cheaters in an other game forum,
I've started 2 wonder if this could become a problem in civ4.
And I also wonder if it might allready be a problem in civ3,
without us really noticing it?

Post your comments on the subject, but remember that even the physics science field have cheaters

 

[Virote_Considon]

I didn't think that Exploit usage is generally accepted in civ, especially on these forums...

 

[vbraun]

All well established mp games have:
1. Cheat producers.
2. Cheat users.
3. Exploit users, (Exploit usage is generally accepted in civ, yes? )

Any kind of competitive league (such as http://www.myleague.com/civ3players/ ) will have rules so that if you are caught using cheats/exploits you will be banned from the league. So I don't think it will be a huge problem.

 

[obscenename]

In blizzard games you get banned if you cheats. Doesn't make a differnce if the game is played by some one in the know, they're will be cheats. If they work online though. Thats a differnt thing.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Cheats, I don't like. As for exploits, it depends on what kind. Some I don't think are exploits, like reducing the science rate on the last turn of research to make more money. Others are what a stingy player might call an exploit, but is accepted by the community, like prebuilding. Cheats that the game designers build in, however, remove a lot of the fun out of the game (except for debugging scenarios). Keep them out.

 

[Own]

Exploits are fine, but please no cheat codes, like saving multi in your game and reloading, and then being able to see the whole world.

 

[Speaker]

Exploits are fine, but please no cheat codes, like saving multi in your game and reloading, and then being able to see the whole world.

That's not really a cheat...more of a bug.

 

[boarder]

All well established mp games have:
1. Cheat producers.
2. Cheat users.
3. Exploit users, (Exploit usage is generally accepted in civ, yes? )
4. Banned users.

Cheaters suck in mp play, they are the bane of online gaming.
Cheaters should learn how to play properly if they need to cheat they must be pretty useless.

 

[ainwood]

Cheaters complete destroy any type of competitive game / tournament - they completely suck the fun out of it - it is single biggest problem in both participating in and in administrating these events.

It really concerns me that in Civ IV, that the ease of cheating will increase as a direct result of the increase in ease (and power of) modability. Consider the 'software developers kit' that was mentioned - it sounds like people will be able to make their own AI routines. Let say someone mods the game so that the AI doesn't build settlers, (as an extreme example). Hopefully in multiplayer, all players will play by the 'hosts' rules, or get an out of sync error of some kind. How can these types of things be prevented in single-player events?

 

[Pablicosta]

I must disagree with the consencus here, I reckon they should code in cheats, but only to be used in Single Player mode. This way you can choose to have a serious, 3 or 4 day long Civ game, doing everything properly. Or, if you just want a bit of fun for an hour or so, hit the "Giant Killer Robots" cheat and engage in 1 on 1 Robo-Combat with the AI.
Of course, cheats should not be able to be used in the MP matches, that just ruins them, but in SP a bit of fun never hurt anyone.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I must disagree with the consencus here, I reckon they should code in cheats, but only to be used in Single Player mode. This way you can choose to have a serious, 3 or 4 day long Civ game, doing everything properly. Or, if you just want a bit of fun for an hour or so, hit the "Giant Killer Robots" cheat and engage in 1 on 1 Robo-Combat with the AI.
Of course, cheats should not be able to be used in the MP matches, that just ruins them, but in SP a bit of fun never hurt anyone.

What you want can and should be done in mods, but not in cheats. Mods can be made before the game; but not during the game. Cheats can be done in-game and are therefore on my black list of "not done" items.

 

[Pablicosta]

Well if they are why dont you just not use them? Surely, having them available doesnt change anything, unless you choose to cheat. I cant see the AI forcing you to cheat
And, having cheats means if you set off to have a proper game with no mods and then your in a a position where you are going to loose no matter what (12 civs invading you at once, taken all but your capitol which only has 3 spearmen in it) you could just say "umph this" and hit a few cheats, get a few laughs out of your demise atleast. Anyway, cheats most likely wont be in, its just not very Civ.

 

[Own]

That's not really a cheat...more of a bug.

How could that be a bug? You sure Sid didn't put that in for kicks?

 

[ainwood]

Of course, cheats should not be able to be used in the MP matches, that just ruins them, but in SP a bit of fun never hurt anyone.

What about competitive single player?

 

[The_Architect]

Cheats, I don't like. As for exploits, it depends on what kind. Some I don't think are exploits, like reducing the science rate on the last turn of research to make more money. Others are what a stingy player might call an exploit, but is accepted by the community, like prebuilding. Cheats that the game designers build in, however, remove a lot of the fun out of the game (except for debugging scenarios). Keep them out.

Well those who do not like using cheats can play without them. Whereas, some like me would definitely like to have cheats. Spoil the fun, if it does, is the problem of those people who use cheats. This should not be reason to not have them in game.
Cheats should definitely be included.

In good faith,
The_architect.

 

[Pablicosta]

What about competitive single player?

I'm not experienced here so I dont really know what you mean, but I shall presume you mean where you play a game and them submit it yes? If that the case, then they could do what I have seen before in a game. When it shows your score it should be tarnished, like it could have a great big red stamp across it saying "Cheater" or something? That way you wouldnt be able to pass it off as a fair game if it aint.

 

[kitsquad]

I'm not experienced here so I dont really know what you mean, but I shall presume you mean where you play a game and them submit it yes? If that the case, then they could do what I have seen before in a game. When it shows your score it should be tarnished, like it could have a great big red stamp across it saying "Cheater" or something? That way you wouldnt be able to pass it off as a fair game if it aint.

as long as there's a way to know that the submitted game file is one in which someone cheated... like a flag or something that let's the rest know that "other" rules or gameplay options were used.

 

[Pablicosta]

Maybe where it says the version in CIV III it could just say "Cheats enabled". Hmmm, I'm sure someone could mod that out if they really wanted to though. If thats the case it would come down to trust, and I get the feeling general etiquette (sp?) is good here.

 

[Slax]

Cheats lead to poor game skill. Leave them out.

 

[Desertsnow]

Cheats lead to poor game skill. Leave them out.

Not necessarily. I started playing Sim City with the money cheat. After a while I became good enough to stop using this cheat. Think of cheats as training wheels for beginners.