The civ would have the "Units always fight at full strength" in its UA : its less powerful, but more broad in term of unitlines (since it will be for all units, including archer, siege, naval, air etc) and will be felt from the start of the game.
The focus on GG is quite different from the one in the Mongolian kit : for Japan, you want quantity to trigger the UA as many times as possible for economic purposes ; for Mongolia, you have a superior GG that defines your core military strategy. In the end its quantity vs quality + economic vs military.
About the GPTI, I don't really understand the problem : two civ can have a UI or a UGPTI without them becoming "similar". It all depends on the UI / UGPTI in question, and in this case, the difference is obvious : for Japan, it's a scaling economic UGPTI created from cultural GP ; for Mongolia, it's a tweaked version of the Citadel which sacrifices brute defensive power for more mobility for your army and is directly linked to a unique Great General.
The power spike in medieval has been there for a long time. This proposal, in fact, will reduce this power spike by putting some of the power before (combat bonus nerfed but present from the start in the UA ; Torii accessible from the start as long as you have cultural GP) and some of the power after (experience from combat put onto the Kabuki Theater ; scaling of the Torii), so it sorta reduce the similitude here.
About the strong horse archer, the Japanse power spike here is very much timed on the Medieval Era (the only thing an upgraded Kondei keeps is the Great General II promotion), while Mongolia's bonus is a general boost to the skirmisher unit line, so once again it ends up quite different in term of timing and how it impacts the strategy of the civ.
Finally, the economy of the two civs is very, very different : Mongolia is very much a conquest and expansion civ, with strong tile acquisition, wide gameplay and unit production bonuses, but nothing towards better urbanization, infrastructure or great people ; Japan has a fighter edge (to gain experience and spawn Great Generals), but is mostly a urbanization civ with very strong potential for playing the GP game, especially for cultural Great People.
Finally, the economy of the two civs is very, very different : Mongolia is very much a conquest and expansion civ, with strong tile acquisition, wide gameplay and unit production bonuses, but nothing towards better urbanization, infrastructure or great people ; Japan has a fighter edge (to gain experience and spawn Great Generals), but is mostly a urbanization civ with very strong potential for playing the GP game, especially for cultural Great People.
Just trying some game scenarios in my head. With this kit I can see Japan wanting a more horse-friendly start, and its expansions would more likely be in horse friendly lands such as those favored by steppe/plains civs and not what I'd expect with an island nation. Being a fighter who uses mounted bowman would just feel more Huns instead. Sorry if it isn't very objective.
Personal nitpick though, I just like it when my elite samurai becomes elite riflemen like how Japan made the IJA. I don't think it'd be as good to get a bunch of light tanks especially with how unremarkable they were historically.
It has its benefits and disadvantages :
- the Torii doesn't require Great Work slots, can be used to improve bad bonus resources or base tiles (for example Tundra or water tiles), natually grows in power throughout the game without needing heavy commitment in specific strategies and benefits from ideology tenets boosting UIs in the endgame (in addition to providing bonus Tourism once the Hotels are online) + it is a source of early faith for the civ
- Great Works require less territory and citizens, boosts cultural GPeople bulbing (even more so with the Kabuki) and has bonus synergy with Artistry
In the end, it is a question of tall vs wide, artistry vs other policy trees etc. It open possibilities for the player with clear strengths and weaknesses on both side.
That's great except... this is a unique component. If it's something that's only situationally marginally better than a base component, then it's very bad.
Recall that the Dojo it's replacing gives +3 , +3 , plus combat bonuses. (Plus more in instant yields, though some of that is moved to kabuki theater)
This gives... about +3 , -5 (that's a minus sign). Because it's replacing both a normal improvement and great work (a themed great work gives like 6-10 even without policies)
Oh yeah, and it also weakens your writer bulbs.
But it CAN pick up the non-mounted ones. Which is a pretty interesting incentive, because that means you can keep things like Range on a highly-promoted Kondei after you upgrade it.
But it CAN pick up the non-mounted ones. Which is a pretty interesting incentive, because that means you can keep things like Range on a highly-promoted Kondei after you upgrade it.
I'm not allowed to make proposals, BUT IF I DID, this is what I would propose as a modification/counter to this:
Spoiler:
Proposal :
- Move a part of the Dojo unique promotion to the UA (return to base Civ V)
UA - Bakufu +1 Culture and Faith from Defense Buildings.
When a Great General or Great Admiral is born, gain 50% progress towards a Great Artist, Writer and Musician in your Capital. Units always fight at full strength.
- Samurai replaced by Kondei
UU1 - Kondei (replaces Heavy Skirmisher) Unlocked at Physics
175 Production / 300Faith cost
Requires 1 Horse
Mounted 19 CS / 15 RCS / 1 Range (+1 / +1 / +0)
5 MP / 2 Vision Great General II
Kobudo (dummy promotion) - Can fortify and benefit from Terrain Defensive bonuses. Has no Attack malus against Cities and Naval Units. Lost upon upgrade.
Can move after attacking
Skirmisher Doctrine
Cannot melee attack Attack malus against Naval Units
Attack malus against Cities
No Terrain Defense
- Kabuki replaced by Torii
UGPTI - Torii
Can be built by expending a Great Writer / Artist / Musician
Can be built on Land and Coastal tiles
6 Culture, 6 Tourism, 1 Faith
+1Culture, 1 Tourism, and 1 Faith for each adjacent Mountain
+3 Culture at Drama and Poetry
+3 Tourism, 1 Faith at Guilds
+3 Culture, 3 Tourism at Acoustics
+3Culture, 3Faith at Radio
All GPTI and Unique Improvement Bonuses from policies and buildings apply
UB - Dojo
Renamed to Koryu
Remove 8 Bushido Promotions
Gain 50 in city whenever an internal Trade Route to or from this city is completed
- No change for the Yamato
Rationale :
The Japanese kit, although well designed, suffers from 3 not-so-great sins, in addition to the 1 great sin that Hinin mentioned:
The great sin of swords swords swords: Sword boy with Sword government that has a sword unique unit and a unique building where they can master the sword.
The minor sin of overdetermined tech progression to get all the swords. The Dojo and Samurai, both of the base components, unlock on the same tech. The amount of emphasis placed on this single tech overrides all other considerations and makes players pick policies, beliefs etc. that fit this prescribed mad dash to the bottom of the tree.
The minor sin of not enough places to put all the Great works that I make with my swords
ie. The UA can produce Great Musicians and Artists faster and in higher numbers than the slots that are available to house GWArt and GWMusic, forcing you to either bulb great people before the bulbs are useful, or park a great person (that costs unit maintenance) in a city for many turns while you wait for Castles and Temples to unlock.
The minor sin of using only a fraction of my power to make a sword cult, but not tipping all the way over into being a religious civ
The UA, via the worst bonus ever, gives +1 per city per turn to an ancient era building, giving Japan a considerable edge on founding. This puts Japan into a halfway point where they are disruptive enough to the early founding game that they can ruin the religion race for other civs without being a civ that Needs to found in order to leverage the rest of their kit. This is the absolute worst kind of civ, in my opinion, because it makes the religion founding race less competitive for no discernible reason.
Name change to Bakufu
- This is the same thing as Shogunate, but is a more accurate endonym. It is still easy to pronounce and accessible to English speakers.
Replacement of building yields with fights better damaged
- Removes founding bonus and ugly, unimaginative building yield change on UA. Adds back vanilla UA bonus.
Kondei
- This unit is more time-appropriate than the Samurai, and more faithful to the real military history of Japan. It also sufficiently removes the overemphasis on glorious nippon steel.
- The move to Physics for the unlock unstacks all of Japan's base 2UC from Steel, which makes Japan's tech progression more open-ended
- Hinin's proposal to make the UU not a mounted unit for combat bonuses is just too visually confusing. They are on a horse. Something's got to give. Also it could mess with the promotion tree.
Renaming of Dojo
- Koryu, meaning "old school" are schools of traditional practices, including pre-Meiji martial arts.
This simple renaming adds a bit more historicity than Dojo does.
Replacement of Bushido promotions with ITR bonus
- Removes overt reference to Bushido which is an absolute win for historicity. Bushido as a formalized warrior code is at best semi-historical. It would be more correct to say it is a Flanderization of a far more complex network of customs and laws that was reinterpreted in the 19th century to be easily digestible by western audiences and then projected back onto the Japanese. Putting the 'fights well damaged' back onto the UA leaves it more amorphous and unspoken, which is better in this case.
- The removal of overt Bushido also de-emphasizes the swords-swords-swords. The heal on melee kill and other minor bonuses added by bushido also make less sense if the UU is being changed to a ranged unit.
- Adds yields on ITR end from the Kabuki UB2, which is replaced by Torii. This adds a soft incentive for that Edo period isolationism that characterizes pre-modern Japan's portrayal in pop history.
Removal of Kabuki for Torii
- This resolves the problem of not enough slots for early GWAMs produced by the UA. Give GWAMs a GPTI to place.
- Making the Torii scale with buildings, as in Hinin's proposal is unnecessary. It works well for GPTIs that otherwise would create UI issues if exposed to the tech tree like Ordo, but is not necessary here.
- The Kabuki was very late, it was stacked with another unique Opera House (the Brazilian Sambadrome), and it did not resolve Japan's slot issue.
Reduced the Faith bonuses and increased base culture
- The base faith is reduced to 1 point as a flavor-booster. This version of Japan is not a religious civ with major founding bonuses.
- Base culture and tourism increased to be more in line with a GPTI.
- Added mountain adjacency bonus for a bit of that Shinto flavor, gives a settle direction that could influence the decision to place the GPTI vs Great work.
Renaming of Dojo
- Koryu, meaning "old school" are schools of traditional practices, including pre-Meiji martial arts.
This simple renaming adds a bit more historicity than Dojo does.
The Wikipedia page only has 4 languages, and Japanese isn't one. The word is better translated to "old style", and is definitely not a building. You still study Japanese Kobudo in a Dojo.
I think this proposal went too far in trying to correct stereotypes, to a point of introducing another stereotype. The main issue I have with the Kondei is that the rationale for this unit overemphasizes the combat styles of the Kanto region, which is where you find the largest plains in Japan, and how the samurai fought during the Kamakura period. The rest of the country is mountainous and doesn't support proper cavalry tactics, with the armies raised outside Kanto heavily emphasizing infantry tactics instead.
This is seen first in the early Heian period, in the clash between the emerging Yamato empire, who adopted an infantry based style with many influences from the Tang dynasty, and the Emishi, a conglomerate of defeated kingdoms and local tribes in the East (where you find the Kanto region) that relied on horseback archery. Another illustrative case is the comparison between the Shimazu, who ruled in the Western part of Japan and for whom less than 15% of the army was composed of cavalry, and the Hojo, who ruled in the Kanto region and had 27% of their armies as cavalry.
The reason why you see ritualized horseback archery associated with the samurai is strongly related to the Minamoto, who established the first shogunate and were from the Kanto region. Unsurprisingly, they established their seat of power there, specifically in the Kamakura city, and formed a code of conduct for warriors, a form of proto-bushido, that was known as the way of the bow and horseback. The issue starts in the Mongol invasions of Japan (and the final years of the Kamakura period), with the Samurai moving towards both mass infantry and shock cavalry tactics. This is no coincidence, as the clash of that proto-bushido, which emphasized individual combat, and the Mongol tactics, which emphasized group tactics, resulted in deep changes in how the Japanese warrior code and tactics would develop.
By the time the Sengoku Jidai started, the common troop formation was to have a large contingent of ashigaru wielding pikes and forming a spear wall, alongside foot samurai wielding shorter weapons and covering the weaknesses of that formation (excessively rigid against flanking maneuvers, not reliable when an enemy passed through the pikes, unsteady morale against heavily armored opponents). The samurai would still have a preference for polearm weapons, but shorter blades and percussive weapons were not uncommon in such mixed ashigaru-samurai formations, especially so if the battlefield included heavily forested terrain (not conductive for pike formations). This was specially prevalent in armies raised outside the Kanto region, as the armies of that region (especially the Takeda) would push shock cavalry tactics much further than the rest of the country.
And on the katana part, the fundamental issue there is that the way pre-gunpowder infantry melee combat is set right now revolves around having one melee unit that is specialized against mounted units and one that isn't, but is stronger overall. Portraying the Samurai with polearms would also require, for visual readability's sake, to also make them an anti-mounted unit that obsoletes the Pikeman, which is currently reserved for the Tercio at Renaissance. This is something that applies to all civilizations, not just Japan; everyone has swords as the stronger weapon, or representation of an elite unit, for foot melee units in Classical and Medieval eras. As such, I don't see the current Samurai representation as an issue of the civ; I think the rationale would only make sense for a rework of how pre-Renaissance infantry units are balanced and designed.
Besides, it's not as if historical artwork didn't portrait samurai on foot using swords in the battlefield.
Spoiler:
On the Torii, I don't see the clash between it and the Kabuki working as an interesting decision. 34UC already tried something similar with Egypt by giving them an Ancient era UU (Khopesh) that conflicted with the War Chariot, as the Khopesh had bonus damage vs targets below 50% HP. That was meant to make the player having to decide between killing power or yields; in practice, we hated the Khopesh and treated Egypt as having one less UC than everyone else. The proposed Torii runs the same risk; there's a chance that players will just figure out that either the Torii or the Kabuki is better than the other and just ignore that other UC.
On the Torii, I don't see the clash between it and the Kabuki working as an interesting decision. 34UC already tried something similar with Egypt by giving them an Ancient era UU (Khopesh) that conflicted with the War Chariot, as the Khopesh had bonus damage vs targets below 50% HP. That was meant to make the player having to decide between killing power or yields; in practice, we hated the Khopesh and treated Egypt as having one less UC than everyone else. The proposed Torii runs the same risk; there's a chance that players will just figure out that either the Torii or the Kabuki is better than the other and just ignore that other UC.
Having just played a game as Japan, I'm honestly content with just replacing the Kabuki with Torii. I managed to generate three Great Writers and a Great Musician, and couldn't expend them for Great Works at all for 10+ Turns. And that was after finishing Tradition and going into Artistry! Granted, I was slow with getting Castles and Temples, but at that rate I was going to run out of slots very quickly. So being able to expend those GWAMs for a UGPTI is a very nice alternative to bulbing them too early or having them rest for who-knows-how-many turns. Also, having toured Japan last year, I can verify that Torii are everywhere! If we were to choose between the Kabuki or Torii in terms of "most thematic" Unique Infrastructure for Japan, I'm gonna say the Torii wins without contest.
Edit 2 : Made the Kondei a mounted unit again (caused problems with the promotion tree), buff its RCS as a compensation ; buffed the base yields of the Torii.
I just realized, you need to specify the value being increased by the number of great works of Music (and the formula of the increase), and the rate of experience-to-culture, on the Kabuki:
UB - Kabuki Theater :
- replaces the bonus Culture from internal Trade Routes with "Gain Culture from Experience gained in Combat for Units born in the City" ;
- change the bonus from Great Musician birth to "Gain Production equal to a value increased by the number of Great Works of Music in the Empire".
+1 Faith per Building providing Engineer specialists in the City (Forge / Workshop / Factory / Coaling Station)
+1 Tourism per Building providing Scientist specialists in the City (Library / University / Public School / Research Lab)
Edit 3 : Added the Windmill and the Observatory for Buildings adding yields to Torii. Established a formula for the Kabuki Theater Production bonus from GMusician births.
No since it would tip the civ too much towards Tradition and these are less buildings than policy effects put on sticks that you need neither Production technologies to obtain.
MAGI:
Same requirements as base but with the Musician effect as Gain Production equal to a value increased by the number of Great Works of Music in the Empire
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, +3 
, plus combat bonuses. (Plus more in instant yields, though some of that is moved to kabuki theater)
, -5 
(that's a minus sign). Because it's replacing both a normal improvement and great work (a themed great work gives like 6-10 
Great General or Great Admiral is born, gain 50% progress towards a 
Capital.
Tourism, 1 
