Check out my first super-espionage city

[futurehermit]

Well, I finally got around to building a super-espionage city in my current game. I'm pretty pumped about it. Check it out (you can't tell from the screen, but I'm running 9 spy specialists--1 from mercantilism and 1 from SoL):

 

[martin031]

So, What is your plan now with this city and any future spies you pump out? I have had only one great spy so far, and used it to build the S. Yard. So I would like to hear some of the uses you put them to.

 

[futurehermit]

Great Spies will be settled in this city.

I plan to use my regular spies (LOTS of them) to slow down my closest competitor for the space race. I will put 100% of my espionage against him. (It is Hannibal).

 

[Phrederick]

I've thought about doing something like that. How did you manage to get the Kremlin in there? That's a lot of hammers and I don't see many hammer-producing tiles.

 

[futurehermit]

I paid $6000 for it

 

[xanadux]

I paid $6000 for it

Amazing what a dollar can buy in Russia

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Cool. I found that the GW will give you an early Great Spy. I found that settling it gives that nice little boost to EP production...

 

[futurehermit]

Amazing what a dollar can buy in Russia

 

[futurehermit]

Here is the same city toward the end of the game with multiple settled GSpies.

This city combined with the trickle of points empire-wide gave me enough espionage points that I could have my way with anyone I focused on. I was destroying buildings, getting people to switch into free market for my corporation spam etc.

Fun times!

 

[NaZdReG]

the power of great spies makes the great wall more attractive than ever. i havent played a BTS game yet where I didn't go after it.. even w/o stone or industrious. its too damn easy to chop it out early. there is a time where even warriors will keep the AI from attacking you for a little while.. its mainly barbs that are worrysome.

on that note, if you have the wall and one of those brutal 6 unit stacks of barbs spawn.. they beeline for your neighbors which further keeps them off your back.

I find that settling the first spy in the city is good, then scotland yard the second. though it can be tempting to infiltrate, you basically get 5-8 early techs from doing that.

NaZ

 

[uberfish]

No National Epic?

 

[futurehermit]

National Epic and Globe Theatre were in my gpfarm cranking out great people

 

[futurehermit]

the power of great spies makes the great wall more attractive than ever. i havent played a BTS game yet where I didn't go after it.. even w/o stone or industrious. its too damn easy to chop it out early. there is a time where even warriors will keep the AI from attacking you for a little while.. its mainly barbs that are worrysome.

on that note, if you have the wall and one of those brutal 6 unit stacks of barbs spawn.. they beeline for your neighbors which further keeps them off your back.

I find that settling the first spy in the city is good, then scotland yard the second. though it can be tempting to infiltrate, you basically get 5-8 early techs from doing that.

NaZ

True enough, but I don't care about espionage early. I might try a game where I go more hardcore for early espionage, but I find that since the AI goes for espionage, I go for teching. Of course stealing tech would help with the teching part...so that is something to consider

 

[vanharjc]

Stealing techs is very useful. I played a game on prince where I got boxed in by the creative ethiopians. I had aggressive ai on, with ethiopions, julias caesar and germany on my continent. Didn't have enough room to expand to get a decent tech rate going but I did manage to build the great wall. Settled first GS, built scotland yard with next and settled 3 more later in the game. I kept up in tech by targeting most of my points towards the tech later. I stole 12 techs that game, some of the more expensive ones being flight and medicine. Was a fun and very difficult game. Aggressive ai is nuts.

 

[darrelljs]

Of course stealing tech would help with the teching part...so that is something to consider

Tech stealing is best done early, with a Great Wall spawned Great Spy. As someone in that thread pointed out, once your opponents get some EPs on you, tech stealing becomes much more expensive. I don't have enough experience yet with the expansion, but my initial impression is that this is the only cost effective use of the espionage system.

Edit: vanharjc, that is very interesting. Do you have any screenshots from the later techs you stole? I am curious what the cost was in EPs, and what your EP ratio was with your target.

Thanks,
Darrell

 

[NaZdReG]

point of having the great wall is you don't need to spend money on espionage. I just let the GPP's cook while I work towards alphabet. I try to get alpha online right when the spy is finished. infiltrate whoever looks to be the strongest potential tech leader, and send the spies in. not only can you start raping techs from them, but you can batter the city with destroyed production (espeically if they are wonder happy) poisoned waters and destroyed buildings.

mind you if they dont have alpha yet they cannot make spies.. which makes stopping yours nigh impossible. wait 5 turns in the capitol and you can get iron working for 500ish points. a bargain when you get 9999 or so from infiltration.

give it a shot, its amazing (they'll probably drop the great wall to 1 gpp)

NaZ

 

[vanharjc]

I don't remember exactly what the cost was, but leaving a spy in a city for 5+ turns reduces the cost by of espionage by 50%, and I usually had a huge espionage advantage. I would target most or all of my points toward a civ that was researching a tech I wanted to steal, I'd send a couple spies to sit in the city it would be cheapest to steal the tech from. Once they finish the tech I'd steal it right away. I'll try to get a screenshot next time.

 

[UncleJJ]

point of having the great wall is you don't need to spend money on espionage. I just let the GPP's cook while I work towards alphabet. I try to get alpha online right when the spy is finished. infiltrate whoever looks to be the strongest potential tech leader, and send the spies in. not only can you start raping techs from them, but you can batter the city with destroyed production (espeically if they are wonder happy) poisoned waters and destroyed buildings.

mind you if they dont have alpha yet they cannot make spies.. which makes stopping yours nigh impossible. wait 5 turns in the capitol and you can get iron working for 500ish points. a bargain when you get 9999 or so from infiltration.

give it a shot, its amazing (they'll probably drop the great wall to 1 gpp)

NaZ

This sounds fun, but I'm a little confused by what you are doing. How are you using the Great Spy and who is stealing the techs? Is he used as a spy himself or popping him to get a load of EPs that other spys use to steal the techs?

 

[NaZdReG]

Uncle JJ it goes something like this

step 1, get the great wall asap. hopefully you get a 2nd city and 2 workers out in the process. (philo civs with mining are good for this)

step 2, beeline for alphabet while your great spy points accumulate

step 3, send great spy to the capitol of whoever the tech leader is likely to be (financial civs etc.. we know mansa would be a good target ) use the infiltrate city option and get 4000-9500 espionage points against that civ(depending on game spd)
**right now that doesn't scale over time.. so weaker later. scaling with speed is fair because techs are more expensive**

step 4, research alphabet and begin producing spys. 3-5 will do nicely. beeline them for the enemy capitol as they get produced. each spy is to wait 5 turns, then perform the steal technology mission. each tech has an espionage cost roughly equal to its beaker cost. -50% for waiting for 5 turns. its even better if you have open boarders with the civ. and you get a discount for having so many more points into espionage then they do.

from here, you have enough points to steal usually 4-9 techs. you also get to see everything in their cities and what they are researching. so research other stuff knowing you will steal their techs.

when doing this, make sure to allocate your other espionage efforts to another civ, the civ that you are infiltrating doesnt need further points for a while.

almost broken levels of pwnage

NaZ

 

[NaZdReG]

Hermit,

spys are MOST powerful pre-medieval. if you see someone like mansa teching towards beurocracy.. they'll only have each tech for 1 turn before you do. it becomes impossible for them to pull ahead. they may have invested in espionage but cannot compare to the 4000-9000 points you got from infiltration (varies by game speed)


when your points are exhausted you can go pound on them or something. I usually research military related techs while i'm stealing their econ techs. last game mansa hit beurocracy.. I stole it as my last tech and DOW with a stack of swords and cats. used the leftover points to forment revolutions in his cities.. no cultural defense. was pwnage

NaZ