Checking out all Civs

[topresch]

I had a thread not long ago about the "Worst civs" to play in the game, and realized that both my view of a Civ could be largely unfounded as "bad" and that the ones I thought of as "boring" may in fact be quite fun! So I started a project of playing through all Civs with these parameters:

Standard speed and resources
Small map
Continents
Emperor (not quite comfortable with Immortal yet)
5 AI Civs and 12 CS
Save Policies and Promotions
The rest Random, and NO reloads whatsoever.

I've only gone through Sweden and America, both of which I won quite handily due to very good starting locations and their massive abilities for Diplo and Domination, respectively.

I have to say I thought Sweden would have been quite weak, but those CS gifts and a Great Person focus are brutal. I stayed largely peaceful and had Maya, Japan and Persia on my continent. The other continent had England, Arabia and Austria. England was far and away the culturally, scientifically and militarily top dog. Some Diplo maneuvering was necessary, first befriending them and joining a campaign against the Austrians, then denouncing them as all others did. CS were scattered around, but no one stood a chance against my GP gifting. However, it actually came pretty close, as I lost the Diplo vote first by ONE vote, all the while England started building Space ship components. I don't know how close they ended, but my two extra votes on the next round secured Diplo Victory. It has to be said that I had disabled Espionage by mistake, so lost some opportunities there.

Thus, Sweden was a fun and orderly Civ to play, with quite good UUs and a great UA. I may have had more competition than normal, as Austria also was there, but it was never an issue.

edit: Here are screenshots of the end turn, for geographic illustration, with and without resourcetags (can be a bit messy)

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[topresch]

The next game came with America, but by mistake I must have dropped one AI Civ (thus had the normal 5). I got an amazingly good start, both from resources and geographical chance. Had my own peninsula with a whole lot of Silver, Marble and Gems, Sheep and Horses, Iron, a few mountains and topping it off with El Dorado. It was "guarded" on the continent side by two CS following a one-tile narrow isthmus, and had two other CS on the other side. Further north, I competed with Songhai and France, but the former went pretty quick as the French asked me to join a campaign. They got Timboctou and I took Gao. After some rebuilding, I ran over France and they soon waved their customary white flag. Thus I had my own continent even before e.g. Minutemen.

By that time I understood that the other four Civs were Shoshone (clearly the cultural top dogs), Babylon and Germany, all crammed in with 3-4 cities each. In addition, there was a sea link on the east side of my continent making contact possible prior to Astronomy. I built up an invasion army of Minutemen, Cannons and Crossbowmen, and had a number of GGs already, and hit Germany from the east - thus across the ocean. From there, although it was an Industrial war, my Promoted Cannons-->Artillery and Minutemen-->Infantry wreaked havoc together with sacrificing GGs for territory all the way up to their cities, and it was quite an easy Domination Victory.

edit: Screenshots of end turn in various forms, as well as a map a few turns after startup on a second game to get a map for this thread. The settler started originally on the tile to the left of the position of Washington on the end turn screenshots. Also included an end turn shot of the other continent, then dominated by me. As you can see, the narrow isthmus is easily controlled, and the coastal route between continents is just about visible on the minimap.

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[topresch]

NOW I got India, a poor start, with Denmark, Carthage and Arabia on a small continent. It's been quite tough, and Denmark builds most of the Wonders. However, Kilimanjaro inside my borders and prudent fighting after Carthage ran over Arabia and then DOW me, has left me with some good units, and I wonder if I shouldn't take Copenhagen and get all those wonders. I think I have a good chance after a Peace treaty with Carthage is concluded.

I resurrected Arabia, who Dido eliminated, but kept Mecca after taking it from her, so I think I'll have a tiny friend there. Recently mapped some more, and both Ethiopia and Polynesia seem quite strong. Don't know the last Civ, but the geography outside my continent seems to consist of one small continent and several large islands. I have an issue with Happiness of course, as I had four cities, kept Mecca, and think I'll take Copenhagen - all with horrible India. Until now, the worst Civ. We'll see how it pans out.

edit: Included a map a few turns after startup on a second game to get a map for this thread, showing my starting loc and the towns of Copenhagen and Mecca. Dido is in the mist, some tiles north of Mecca.

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[shaglio]

NOW I got India, a poor start, [...] all with horrible India. Until now, the worst Civ. We'll see how it pans out.

Have you considered playing India again with a better start? That way you'll be able to tell if it was the start that made them bad, or the overall civ itself.

 

[topresch]

Well, it seems that the conquering of Copenhagen, with all its Wonders (e.g. Notre Dame, Mausoleum, Angkor Wat, Leaning Tower) bolted me into some kind of lead, and now I'm cruising comfortably along towards Cultural Victory, although it may still take some time. I think I am leading Scientifically, although Polynesia has the upper hand Diplo-wise. But I'm starting to earn enough cash to ally with some CS, and thus get more votes in the World Congress. They might not be AS bad as I originally thought, but still rank behind Sweden and America for now.

 

[jlim201]

Just my opinion, but these leaders are ones i find boring.


Pedro (I could easily win culture as anyone else, I have even done it as the Huns ) No point.
Oda (There's nothing special here. Just a bunch of behind the scenes stuff)
Kamehameha (Units/Improves dont help me, exploration basically only useful for early game)
Hiawatha
Harald (Stuff like this is not noticeable)
Genghis (Keshiks/Khans are nice, but my wars are with rifles and artillery)
Gajah (Island maps are annoying, only map where he excels)
Dido (Same as above, mts not neccessary unless on highland maps)
Attila (Early war is too costly)
Askia (?)

 

[Tyrvos]

Just my opinion, but these leaders are ones i find boring.


Pedro (I could easily win culture as anyone else, I have even done it as the Huns ) No point.
Oda (There's nothing special here. Just a bunch of behind the scenes stuff)
Kamehameha (Units/Improves dont help me, exploration basically only useful for early game)
Hiawatha
Harald (Stuff like this is not noticeable)
Genghis (Keshiks/Khans are nice, but my wars are with rifles and artillery)
Gajah (Island maps are annoying, only map where he excels)
Dido (Same as above, mts not neccessary unless on highland maps)
Attila (Early war is too costly)
Askia (?)

Haralds benefits (except the NSI) are very noticeable if you adapt your game to coastal assaults. Getting to disembark and fire artillery in the same turn is pretty nice.

Carthage doesn't need islands, just coasts (although they are great with island maps too).

 

[Navelgazer]

Yeah, Dido is crazy good on both sea and land, on basically any map which even includes water.

 

[topresch]

Alright! So I've finished the India game. Possibly in a slightly different manner than I could have, as I dominated the continent I started on. The amount of cash I brought in and certain strategical questing made me allied with all the CS in the final 50 turns at least - only having to pay out or ship over a unit immediately after Polynesia tried to ally with one. Polynesia clearly dominated their continent and conquered Ethiopia toward the end, but too late for their part. I beelined for airport and dictated the world congress. Finally, to get access to Polynesian lands, I DOW them with two Musicians outside their borders, moved in and sealed the Cultural Victory (quite overkill for those two GM got me 12500 Tourism with Polynesia). Quite easy actually.

The new game got me India AGAIN, so I restarted and got Shaka. I'm seemingly on a small, flat, dry continent without ANY neighbours, one CS and tons of Barbs. There is a massive forest next to my Capital and quite a lot of desert. Have to beeline for Petra. Also, Uluru and Fuji are there. I guess I can take my time and plan my empire. Never seen such a start - no other Civs.

edit: Screenshots of the India end turn, and a map of the lonely Shaka game (that's the whole islandocontinent), again restarted to get a map for this thread. I'll try to include the Shaka end turn map below, but for some reason the game always crashes when I try to retrieve that savegame.

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[topresch]

Right. That was a mess. I started with Zulu on a small continent by myself, and later found Persia on a coastally linked small continent northeast. Thereafter it took REALLY long time to find the others. I conquered Persia with a bunch of Impi, but understood on the messages that I was far behind Scientifically and therefore Militarily. I got Hanging Gardens, Petra and Statue of Zeus, but the rest went to the other three LONG before I'd even Teched it. When I finally hooked up with the three other Civs, it was Japan, America AND Russia - all built up and quite highly advanced. I knew in fact that someone turned Industrial (Russia) before I even hit the Renaissance, and had fully conquered Byzantium by that time. Discomforting.

They were all VERY guarded toward me and soon both America and Russia DOW me. I had an adequate navy and used it to clear the way to be able to land on Russian soil. However, they had at least three-four more techs than me and thus also more advanced Military. It was a total grind, only won by shrewd use of GG to get some lebensraum, right and many Promotions, continuous naval and military buildup from my side, helped by the fact that I took Moscow first of all, lost it, retook it and they sued for peace (no logic). That pattern was the key to Domination Vic. After some breathing time, beelining for upgradable units, and restocking the front lines, I saw Russia attacked Japan and took Kyoto. Their defenses left for that war and I opened the second front - conquered the remaining heartland quite handily. They sued for peace and I got Adrianople, liberated it and met Byzantium, who became my chief trading partner.

Then I though: "Hm, if I now only conquer Washington from America, I've won", not knowing that in BNW it's not the last player keeping his Capital anymore. That was a surprise. So I had to take the remaining American cities apart from a small Atlanta far away, burning them and get peace including Osaka, which I liberated. Now I'd advanced into the Modern toward Atomic era, but was actually still behind Russia in Science. However, I was vastly superior in battle, with a multitude of highly Promoted machine guns, infantery, landships, artillery, battleships and destroyer - Moscow could in fact produce two-shot units. So I easily took Yekaterinburg, Constantinople and Kyoto for a hard-won Domination Vic. Man, that was hairy! The Promotions were essential, and I had real issues with Happiness and Wealth until I got my Autocracy. From there on, it was much better.

Now I've received the Greeks, small continent with four CS and the Netherlands. Should be better. Guess I'm going for Diplo then? We'll see.

edit: Two maps of the Greek game, one shortly after conquering the Netherlands, and one after finding the others. The Zulu end turn save game clearly isn't going to load unfortunately.

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[LoneRebel]

I'm following this. Please keep us updated on how you do with every civ.

 

[topresch]

Haha. That sounded REALLY sarcastic Nevertheless, it's an experiment for me and instead of keeping labnotes on my computer, I'll post them here - in case I get some input along the way. Toward the end, I'll be more qualified on who are bad, good, and boring. In any case, sarcastic or not, enjoy. Perhaps I should post a map for each as well, to overload with excruciating detail?

 

[MightyMite]

This is good.. BUT... BUT.. You are rating every Civ with your play-style.. you should also add this: rate Civ with computers play-style.

 

[topresch]

Yeah, I will definitely get a feel for how bad or strong the AI plays. Although the game clearly depends a lot on starting location, neighbours and geographical coincidence, I believe I will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff in the end.

Of course, Zulu without any neighbours to bash is a tough one, particularly with such seemingly strong opponents as Persia, Russia, and America. However, I took them down in the end, even though I was lagging seriously in Science. Never understood why Russia and America DOW'ed me though, as they never did anything with it - no invasions and no serious naval threat. Although the Indian start seemed worse, it was a lot easier, due to crappy Denmark and Arabian buffer against Carthage. I just dropped all focus on Religion, which gave me leeway on so much other stuff, like Culture and Science (usually I wanna do it ALL, which doesn't work). I think I'll post some late shots, so it gets more tangible. My American start was just massively good (at least for my style), and the Victory subsequently easy.

 

[Princeofnigeria]

Very interesting games you have! Please keep these posts going, as I'm very interested to see how you do with all of these odd scenarios and varying civs.

 

[LoneRebel]

Haha. That sounded REALLY sarcastic Nevertheless, it's an experiment for me and instead of keeping labnotes on my computer, I'll post them here - in case I get some input along the way. Toward the end, I'll be more qualified on who are bad, good, and boring. In any case, sarcastic or not, enjoy. Perhaps I should post a map for each as well, to overload with excruciating detail?

Really? It wasn't intended to be sarcastic at all.

Anyway, a lot of it really seems to come down how good your terrain is and who the other civs are. There're quite a lot of random elements even if we keep the map settings and game settings the same for every game (besides randomizing the AI civs, of course).

 

[topresch]

Hehe, I guess I keep too much with sarcastic company in general, and have lost my sincerety gauge

Well, it's good to hear that others beside me get something out of this. I will continue the "CiV diary" in any case. Although terrain etc seems to be of importance, it still doesn't seem critical for most, and I can generally tell when it's been essential and what effect it has had, if major. I think I'll add a screenshot of the starting area at the near-finished games as well, to accompany the stories. Experienced players like yourselves will find it easier to understand the developments I describe and how the geopolitics may have unfolded

 

[LoneRebel]

Yeah, we can use this as a sort of experiment. Averaged over many games, all using the same settings but different civs, I'd like to find out whether any differences in how well a game goes can be attributed to starting location, or to actual differences between the civs. For example, did the America game go so well because the start was so good, or because of America's UA/UUs?

 

[topresch]

I'd say it was a mix, but I conquered France and Songhai long before Minutemen, and the other continent wasn't particularly hilly, so I'd say one big factor must have been geography there actually. Btw apart from those parameters in the first post, all else is random. Perhaps I should figure out what it turns out to be (e.g. Arid, 3 Myo etc) for all my games?

 

[LoneRebel]

Yeah, it'd be a good idea to check that. I didn't notice that map settings like temperature, sea level, and wetness were randomized as well. I always play on "middle-of-the-road"' settings (4 myo, average temp and average aridity) so maybe that's why I didn't notice.