China - Qin Shi Huang Thread

[Stringer1313]

My problem with the Eureka bonus isn't so much that it may be overpowered, but that it's boring and not immersive. So far all the revealed civs have had---more or less---bonuses that were somewhat immersive-ish. But the Eureka bonus feels like one of those invisible "spreadsheet" bonuses that just kinda happen in the background... (like a ton of the Civ 5 bonuses)

 

[Magil]

Using a builder with 1 charge left is another great idea. Even if you can't have full set for 1-turn completion, having 2-3 1-charge builders would speed up things significantly.

Or we can hope that civilian stacking is allowed in VI. I always thought it should be in V, as civilian traffic jams add nothing to the game but frustration.

Though it should be noted that in V, even if civilians were modded to be allowed to stack (as was very reasonable), two workers couldn't team up to perform the same task on the same tile on the same turn (this was on of my favored moves in past Civ games), so it may work out the same for builders.

 

[stealth_nsk]

My problem with the Eureka bonus isn't so much that it may be overpowered, but that it's boring and not immersive. So far all the revealed civs have had---more or less---bonuses that were somewhat immersive-ish. But the Eureka bonus feels like one of those invisible "spreadsheet" bonuses that just kinda happen in the background... (like a ton of the Civ 5 bonuses)

That's good point. But it's the only invisible percentage bonus for China. The rest of the things are very visible.

Or we can hope that civilian stacking is allowed in VI. I always thought it should be in V, as civilian traffic jams add nothing to the game but frustration.

Stacking affects visibility. You could look at the worker and by the number of people see how many charges are left without selecting it. If you can't tell how many units are on the tile, it's step backward. Also keep in mind - we could expect to have much less civilian units due to builder charges. So no, I don't expect civilian stacking in Civ6.

 

[Magil]

Stacking affects visibility. You could look at the worker and by the number of people see how many charges are left without selecting it. If you can't tell how many units are on the tile, it's step backward. Also keep in mind - we could expect to have much less civilian units due to builder charges. So no, I don't expect civilian stacking in Civ6.

Oh please, that's such a weak excuse. The icons above this were already used for the stacking of military/civilian units in V, no reason why it can't be used here. Visibility is not an excuse to include such an annoying, pointless feature.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Oh please, that's such a weak excuse. The icons above this were already used for the stacking of military/civilian units in V, no reason why it can't be used here. Visibility is not an excuse to include such an annoying, pointless feature.

The word "excuse" you're using is quite wrong here. It's like you've found some hidden shameful reason to not make civilian units stack.

It's not excuse, it's a reason. Everything is unstacked, everything is on the map. Icons were in previous games, but they don't provide that level of visibility. It's quite big part of both UI and immersion.

 

[Atlas627]

Oh please, that's such a weak excuse. The icons above this were already used for the stacking of military/civilian units in V, no reason why it can't be used here. Visibility is not an excuse to include such an annoying, pointless feature.

Thats your opinion.

Also, stealth_nsk's point was that the number of charges is represented by the unit graphic. That IS affected, regardless of what method you use to indicate stacking.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

I'd be very disappointed if you could use one builder more than once, or even multiple builders on same wonder. This reminds me one of the most annoying CiV features, namely saving and then bulbing 6+ Great Scientists within few turns in late game. Building 2 builders in order to construct specific wonder within 2 turns seems completely ridiculous to me.

I think adding 15% production to any wonder you wish once is very nice boost anyway.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I think you can only use builders if they stand ontop of the wonder. So if one builder have more then one charge left, the builder will block the path for other builders. But if the builder only have a single charge left it will disappear and make space for another builder but Im not sure if the other builder can use a charge on the wonder at the same turn.

 

[Magil]

The word "excuse" you're using is quite wrong here. It's like you've found some hidden shameful reason to not make civilian units stack.

It's not excuse, it's a reason. Everything is unstacked, everything is on the map. Icons were in previous games, but they don't provide that level of visibility. It's quite big part of both UI and immersion.

Nah, it's the right word. Despite how "unstacked" things are, there will always be some forms of stacking: units will stack on terrain, in cities, on districts, on improvements. Under some circumstances, visibility will be obscured, that's just how things are. Even one instance of a Settler being delayed by one turn is worse than a hundred instances of having to look at unit icons to tell how many civilians are on a tile.

 

[Atlas627]

Even one instance of a Settler being delayed by one turn is worse than a hundred instances of having to look at unit icons to tell how many civilians are on a tile.

That's your opinion.

Other players may not agree with your opinion.

The developers clearly don't agree with your opinion.

That is what makes it a reason, not an excuse. Firaxis thinks they have a good reason to do this. They don't think "oh nobody will like it but we want to do it anyway, so what's our excuse?"

 

[shaglio]

One thing that I've always wanted to know: is Qin pronounced "kin" or "chin"?

 

[Kerfuffle]

One thing that I've always wanted to know: is Qin pronounced "kin" or "chin"?

It is pronounced 'Chin', which is where China's (modern) name is derived from iirc - the spelling is just different is all (EDIT: Well there's probably historiogrphical reasons as to why it's spelt with a q, but I don't actually know the reason(s) - my guess is the changing of translation methods over time)

 

[Sagax]

(EDIT: Well there's probably historiogrphical reasons as to why it's spelt with a q, but I don't actually know the reason(s) - my guess is the changing of translation methods over time)

You're right for the most part - that's the letter designated to this sound in Pinyin, the standard romanization system for Chinese sounds. Might seem not so logical at first, but the sound does not exist in the English language, hence all the trouble. "Chin" is not that accurate either, since "ch" exists in Pinyin as a standalone sound.

 

[Liex]

One thing that I've always wanted to know: is Qin pronounced "kin" or "chin"?

I don't how accurate it is, but that's how I learned it:

1. Say "Shin";
2. Now put the tip of your tongue below your lower teeth, raise the middle of your tongue so it touches the roof of your mouth, smile a bit and say "Shin" again, a few times;
3. Now put a "t" before "Shin" and you should have "Qin".

 

[Sagax]

I don't how accurate it is, but that's how I learned it:

1. Say "Shin";
2. Now put the tip of your tongue below your lower teeth, raise the middle of your tongue so it touches the roof of your mouth, smile a bit and say "Shin" again, a few times;
3. Now put a "t" before "Shin" and you should have "Qin".

There's an easier way (at least IMO)....

1. Say "Tsin". Notice how you make the sound "ts" with your tongue and teeth.
2. SLIGHTLY increase the gap between your upper and lower teeth.
3. Say "Tsin" with the modifications in Step 2.


Alright, back to topic. One thing I've been thinking about these days is whether China's UA really has as much impact as we initially thought - that's with the latest information we got stating that their bonus to Eurekas is +10%. I have a feeling that if Eurekas are really that great, then every civ will be committed to the search for them in early game - making China's +10% not as useful, at least on paper. There might be scenarios where the boost is rendered kinda obsolete.

An abstract example: an "empty" 100 bulb tech, your science output is 25/turn. Chinese Eureka boosts it to 60/100, but you still need 2 turns to complete the tech - just like any other civ that got the same Eureka. Sure, the extra 10 bulbs will most likely be carried over to the other tech in your beeline (or WILL they?), but you might be facing the same issue there as well.

 

[Reboot]

I speak Chinese a second language.

For English speakers, Qin sounds closest to "Chin". The Ch is not as emphasized.

"Chin" makes your mouth form into a pucker.
"Qin" makes your mouth form a grin.

Best way is to search on Youtube and find a Chinese speaking Qin Shi Huang.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

There's an easier way (at least IMO)....

1. Say "Tsin". Notice how you make the sound "ts" with your tongue and teeth.
2. SLIGHTLY increase the gap between your upper and lower teeth.
3. Say "Tsin" with the modifications in Step 2.


Alright, back to topic. One thing I've been thinking about these days is whether China's UA really has as much impact as we initially thought - that's with the latest information we got stating that their bonus to Eurekas is +10%. I have a feeling that if Eurekas are really that great, then every civ will be committed to the search for them in early game - making China's +10% not as useful, at least on paper. There might be scenarios where the boost is rendered kinda obsolete.

An abstract example: an "empty" 100 bulb tech, your science output is 25/turn. Chinese Eureka boosts it to 60/100, but you still need 2 turns to complete the tech - just like any other civ that got the same Eureka. Sure, the extra 10 bulbs will most likely be carried over to the other tech in your beeline (or WILL they?), but you might be facing the same issue there as well.

But that overflow of research (And culture) means that....if everyone always get Eurekas, China's UA is...20% discount (50->40) on techs And civics

 

[Atlas627]

Qin is closest to English Chin. This is where we get China, but Qin is not pronounced the same as China.

Q in Chinese is like the English Ch. It should always be followed by an 'ee' or 'i' sound. Basically, Q means 'chi'.

Ch in Chinese is like English Ch but you roll your tongue and pucker your lips, creating a sort of "chr" sound.

This is using the Pinyin system. If you are trying to read anglicized Cantonese, the spellings will not match the pronunciation in the same way. If you are reading any words whose translations to English were popularized before Pinyin (such as Tea, Tofu, Taoism, Peking, or Taipei) then you are reading poorly anglicized Mandarin (stupid Brits ; those words should be pronounced cha, dofu, daoism, beijing, and taibei).

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The Eurka boost is pretty powerful. 60% is a 20% increase over 50%, 1.2*50% = 60%.

Or maybe more understandably: If everyone always get their eurka boost, China have to pay one fifth less for each tech then the other civs.

 

[Paramecium]

With the new gameplay videos we got quite a new look on the Great Wall improvement. Unfortunately I just found filthyrobot's videos with actual china gameplay, but he didnt build the wall. So we dont know exactly how big the defense bonus is and how big the yields of it are.

But we got still new informations. First, the GW in the prerelease build just needs the research masonary, which is a very early tech compared to the tech for military engineer who can construct forts later in the game.

Alone that gives china a massive def bonus compared to other civs, only if you look at the problems you can have with the barbarians early on. And it might be a good idea to rush archery so you can defend your walls with archers, who are now vulnerable and the wall def bonus might help them.

And in the tooltip of the current version of the pre release lets plays it is now mentioned, that you get an adjacency bonus for other wall tiles connected and a bonus when the wall is built on hills.

So it might be very helpfull in the early game to build the wall as long as possible, so you have to put your cities closer together, so the borders will connect faster. Especially if your gold bonus will get higher then 1 it can be very strong compared to other gold income ressource. Yeah, gold might be easier to obtain early now at least by city gold income, but you can use it more now to pump out more units which are quite needed it looks like.

And yeah, it can be used aggressively, just place one tile on a hill for an archer to begin your offense and than you can quickly forty your new lands.

Im still on the search for some deeper gameplay of china especially with someone who actually builds the wall, but I found none so far ...